This is for everybody who continues to insist that anyone in their home is a threat

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Why does the shooter have to dig for a light? Why can't he just turn the lights on?
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The delay might well be fatal, esp. since turning the light on can require feeling around and giving up an all-important hand, which should be stabilizing the weapon. If you want to be extra sure, tell them you're going to shoot them as part of the request for an ID. Do not tie up your hands fumbling around, though. Bad idea.

you have no business shooting at shadowy figures.
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Dude, if I walk out to a dark living room and see a shadowy figure lurking around in there, I'm not going to feel around for the danged light switch. Nobody has any business lurking there in the dark under any circumstances whatsoever except me. Now if I lived in a suburban hole with people coming and going at all hours, I'd give a verbal demand and a warning. Why would the person not respond if they belonged there? Why would they be lurking in the shadows?
 
Well according to the facts presented I do not really see a problem, just a sad unfortunate situation.
The guy broke into the home, made it obvious there was a break in as a "joke". It was dark and the guy inside the home which appears to be broken into does not identify himself or flee the scene. He probably advanced on the home owner.

Under those circumstances I think it is more likely than not the individual advancing is hostile.
In the dark where you can not even see thier face you probably won't see the gun or other weapon in thier hands either. The firearm you carry home with you probably won't have a light on it and if things happen fast you may not be able to identify the silent appearantly hostile and advancing threat in the home which already has evidence of a break in.

What was a tragedy here shooting someone playing a joke could just as easily have been a tragedy with a dead home owner that did nothing as a criminal fired shots into his silhouette.

According to the story he didn't just fire blindly, and he didn't go in guns blazing. He went in and attempted to get compliance or at least verbal communication with a dark figure. He got none, and by the nature of the practical joke, and the fact that he was shot in the abdomen, the possible burglar was probably facing him and pretending to be a threat.


Firing at a target you cannot identify can be foolish, but so can not firing at an advancing threat refusing to communicate under such circumstances.
This is a bad case to make any hard fast rules about.

Further, "pretending to break in" sounds an awful lot like actualy breaking in and expecting to be forgiven because it is part of a joke.
 
I'm waiting for more information on this "joke".

Did the BIL have a mask? Maybe a nice kabar and an ether soaked rag? Was he just a few feet from the homeowner's 10 yr old daughter's room?

Tee-hee. Funny joke.

Given how many stories we read of heinous crimes committed by sketchy family members, I would not be so quick to judge the homeowner as being at fault.

We all cringe when we read a report of some doofus who shoots junior who unexpectedly sneaks in from a night of drinking, or muffy who comes home early from college.

BIL breaking in and doing a deliberate imitation of a home invader just sounds more like an improvised story of a relation with bad intention.

--Travis--
 
If you think I'm going to illuminate my dwelling for the bad guy(s) to see me better your nuts! I have no intention of giving up any tactical advantage(s) my familiarity with the inside of my 3600 sq ft home provides. My wife is the only other occupant who stands on two legs and in the middle of the night I pat a rump as I pull out the weapon with the other hand and I know two things: 1) My wife is not out there in the living room and 2) whoever is out there is in immediate danger of being shot repeatedly. I have no neighbors who are stupid enough to even come on my forty acres after sundown and no relatives on either side of the family who even know how to find our place. If someone is in the house other than the wife and myself, they pose an imminent threat to our lives and will suffer the immediate and usually fatal consequences.:cuss:
 
Jeff White like previously said, I'll put +1 that you're placing the burden on the wrong party.

Look how many people get shot by police, and it's supported here, because the shootee did something stupid like hold a cell-phone or scratch his ass. The officers didn't correctly ID the threat, but the were threatened and reacted. And except for some really exceptional situations, no-one holds it against them.

So the same logic HAS to apply.

And in this case it wasn't police responding to a situation, already cautioned. It was a guy woken up in the middle of the night, afraid and adrenaline pumping so he can't hear over his own heartbeat in his ears.

You NEED to cut this guy some slack, and put the onus on the guilty party. (The one who claims it was a fake home invasion.) And don't let him being a LEO burden your judgment, he probably won't be one much longer.
 
Anyone in my home, or attempting to enter my home, without my consent DOES pose me a potential threat. The homeowner was correct, and the rookie cop was stupid, and lucky.

Those that know me, make damn sure I either let them in, or make damn sure I know who it is. There are no lights on my firearms, either. I'm comfortable in the dark. Those that don't know me, should go visit someone else.
 
Jesus. You'd think people would learn.

I'd give a shiny new england nickel to know what the hell was going on with the 'Burgler's mind that made him think that was a bright idea. I'm throwing in my lot with the consensus; act stupid and expect to be rewarded as such.

I mean; just never a good idea. I can't think of anyone in my family who wouldn't do the same thing to ME more or less if I tried something that flat-out retarded.
 
While I don't advocate shooting at every shadowy figure you see, I suspect his BIL was acting in a threatening manner as part of the prank. I mean what would the point be of pulling this kind prank if you didn't scare the crap out of the other guy?

Apparently he did a pretty good job at it, too, but I don't think he was planning on getting shot in the process.



Looks like he's going to pull through, thankfully.
 
This doesn't change my opinion in the slightest and it is why I like the Castle law. Homeowners shouldn't be put in the position of having to read an intruder's intent along with whether or not they're armed. It's already a stressful enough situation without having to determine how far you can go in defending yourself and your loved ones.

As far as identifying the target, I agree with a previous poster in that I think your only responsibility is to ensure it isn't a member of the household. The brother-in-law was in a place he shouldn't have been and failed to identify himself when asked. I'm sure the homeowner is tore up with guilt but in truth he did nothing wrong.
 
I think I see the point you're trying to make, Jeff.
I thought that I had a pretty good strategy for dealing with intruders, but now I'm rethinking how I'll handle identifying whomever it is.

But, I have to say that I'm pretty disappointed with how the brother in law acted, given that he's likely seen enough as a LEO to not tempt fate.

I don't find any fault with the victim (shooter), but am reconsidering how I might handle this.
 
This appears to be a huge case of stupidity, and from a LEO - go figure.

If the OP doesn't want to shoot someone that has broken into his house that is his god given right. As for me, if someone comes lurking through my house at night and refuses to identify themselves they are probably gonna suffer the same fate as this idiot. I do have some severely stupid relatives and friends but I don't think any of them are this dumb.
 
Lucky wrote:
Jeff White like previously said, I'll put +1 that you're placing the burden on the wrong party.

Look how many people get shot by police, and it's supported here, because the shootee did something stupid like hold a cell-phone or scratch his ass. The officers didn't correctly ID the threat, but the were threatened and reacted. And except for some really exceptional situations, no-one holds it against them.
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Like This thread from November about police in New York shooting a boy holding a hairbrush. In that thread, Jeff White offered the following:

It is really easy to sit in your warm chair 5000 miles away and pass judgment on a shooting that you don't know anything more about then what is posted in a newspaper article you read online.

What was the range from all the officers to the EDP?

What was the lighting like?

What was the elapsed time from the first shot to the last?

What was the first cue the officers had that they needed to shoot?

Were the officers and the EDP moving?

If so what direction?

How many bystanders were there and what were they doing?

What radio traffic was going on at the time?

Which officer was interacting verbally with the EDP?

How many rounds did that officer fire?

These are just a few of the hundreds of things we must know before we can begin to analyze what happened and learn from it.
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Should we hold this man who was in his own home in the middle of the night to a higher standard than the NY officers?

Suicide by cop, or suicide by homeowner, what's the difference? You're welcome to hesitate as long as you like Jeff if there is someone in your house in the middle of the night, but why do you feel the compulsion to bellitle those who disagree with you?
 
945 pm i guess if you go to bed early thats the middle of the night and i guess the shooter coulda been asleep but i'd have to guess cause there certainly aren't facts to support it in the article.i gotta wonder if its me not being paranoiid enough , this from the gut with the radiation sensor ,or just spoiled cause i live in a safe place. but even when i lived in anacostia i wasn't all that eager to shoot anyone much less a family member.
 
There was a case in Louisiana a few years ago, IIRC. Same thing, a teenage daughter was supposed to be home but she was and decided to do a practical joke on Dad. She left the front door open and hid in the closet. Mom and Dad arrive and see the front door open. He decides to clear the house. Kid jumps out and goes BOO. He gives her a 357 COM. She dies in his arms, saying: Daddy, I love you.

Saw him interviewed. Not a pretty sight.

Decide your risk matrix and act as you want. Is every bump in the night a bad guy? Can you trigger a loud alarm from a safe position?
 
Sometimes the BG will kick his way into a house and yell "police! police! GET DOWN ON THE FLOOR!">

Sometimes they just come in a be real quiet.

Identify your self...at the door...AFTER you knock. Thats all I require. I have the right to expect that...after all, its my home.

Mark
 
Not that Jeff is wrong, but the logical conclusion of his argument is that you don't shoot unless you have 100% identified who the person in your house is, AND you have 100% identified the exact reason why they are in your house.

Buth statements sound reasonable at face value, but I wonder how many ligitimate shootings pass both tests. Hell, does Jeff change his mind if the lights were on, but BIL had a mask on and a knife in his hand?

I suggest we cannot know from this news story if there was anything more this man could have reasonably done before firing.
 
i guess its a question of what you consider a threat. and how comfortably you feel you can blast anyone whose not on the same emotional /fantasy level as you.as this story points out that attitude has consequences. when one moves on and has a family life gets more complex. other folks don't always do what you expect. as gem pointed out that dad in louisiana didn't plan on killing his daughter. funny how ones perspective will change as one grows older and hopefully wiser.
 
This is stupid.
Anyone not known to me or my family, who is found unexpectedly and uninvited within my house, is considered a potential threat till proven otherwise. If it's in the middle of the night, that consideration is stronger yet. Nobody innocently ends up uninvited inside someone else's locked-up house in the middle of the night.
 
Plus Gem didn't actually post a link, though it sounds a lot like an email chain letter. I counter with the story from a few years ago when some guys pretended to rape a girl as a joke, and she over-reacted and stabbed a couple of them...

If she had only waited to properly identify the threat she would have realized it was a joke and no-one would have been hurt. For Pete's sake people, until intercourse starts you HAVE to assume that every rape is a practical joke. Who can possibly argue with this?
 
The article doesn't say so, but the description of the incident would lead one to believe that the homeowner fired at an unidentified figure. If he had much of a view at all, he would most likely have recognized his brother in law.
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Why does the shooter have to dig for a light? Why can't he just turn the lights on?
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Because he would have to take his hand and attention from his weapon. He should have a light on the weapon already :)

This is why I go on and on about weapon lights for home defense. How you can have a weapon for home defense without a light on it is absolutely beyond me. Truly a sad deal.

It may place me in more danger someday, hope not, but I am absolutely GONNA shoot it with 225 Lumens before I shoot it with Hornady TAP.
 
"He didn't tell the family he was coming and decided to sneak in the back door," Lewis said. "The resident asked him to call out who he was, and he didn't, and he shot him."
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1) he broke in the house
2) he didn't respond when called out to


HOW IN THE HELL IS THAT NOT A THREAT?

Yeah, he could have had a light to double check. But his dumbass BIL could have said "Don't fkn shoot, its Billy Bob Dumbass, your Brother".

Darwin wins again.
 
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