Sam59 and M-Rex
Sam59, thank you for responding and adding clarification to the points I questioned. I hope you don't mind that I have taken the time to comment on a few of these points. First, though, I agree 100% that everyone is capable of acting like scum. My question to you (in quotes below) was a no-brainer to which I already knew your answer. I only asked it in order to get you into a frame of mind to understand that some citizens might feel just as wary in a potentially equally (if not more so) vulnerable situation that arises when they are detained by the police. I will comment more after the quote box.
Quote:
Are you wary of finding yourself in a vulnerable position with a potentially dangerous citizen?
This question puzzles me a bit. I am not sure if I am interpreting it right but here goes. YOUR DAMN RIGHT I am wary of finding myself in a vulnerable position with a potentially dangerous citizen! Any cop who is not has a death wish. Again, I am not sure how you meant that question but if I took it correctly I am surprised that you would ask such a for the lack of a better word, stupid question. I am not calling you stupid so don't take it that way.
Quote:
Then how can you blame me, after hearing story after story about corrupt and/or abusive cops, for fearing finding myself in the hands of a police officer, since I have no way of knowing which of them is, or is at least capable of being, corrupt and/or abusive?
There is no answer to this, your fearing something that you have no control over and judging by the quote your fear stems from "story after story" which I assume means via the media. Well, if you believe everything (or should I say anything) the media pumps out then there is nothing I can say that will make a difference. I have personally witnessed the media's account of "the incident", exaggeration,cover up and boldface lies.
Okay. Why are my fears less rational than yours? I should let you know that the media stories simply add to the first-hand accounts that I have heard for many years from friends who grew up across town. Of course you are free to agree or disagree, but it appears that treatment is different on my side (the nicer side) of town. I won't repeat those stories here as I have already related them elsewhere. Besides, I really don't want anyone replying that essentially my friends are liars because "cops wouldn't just act like that without cause".
Sam59, you, and ALL cops, have every right and justification to be extremely cautious when dealing with every citizen. Your fear, or distrust, is based on a very real potential threat. Please bear with me as I speculate that this caution, though well deserved, is the result of case-studies and stories of how things went wrong when proper precautions were not taken. My point is that even a first day rookie cop, who has never had a first-hand experience with a dangerous citizen, will still exercise (and should exercise) the same caution; this is because his training was supplemented by education consisting of case-studies, files, etc. STORIES. The word "story" often has a way of detracting from, and incorrectly betraying, the factual content of which it may consist. Stories, whether true or false, instill information. Some fears (like my fear of sharks--even in a lake--which is the result of watching Jaws too many times when I was young) are irrational but nonetheless real to those who are in fear. Even realistic fears, like those held by LEO's and those held by some citizens, though shown time and time again to be experientally (on a personal level) unfounded, will remain (and should remain) a point of valid concern despite circumstances that have repeatedly taught otherwise. The cop shouldn't lower his guard at his 100th "routine" traffic stop. Sam, thanks for sticking with me so far.
Typically, when I am pulled over I am not in fear for my life from the officer, nor am I anticipating mistreatment; I am usually thinking that I am about to get in trouble for something I have done.
Also, Sam59, sir, it insults me and whomever else you are addressing when you say that we are incapable of understanding your position or a point therein. I have endeavored to impart understanding of my position to you. I really would appreciate it if you took the time to communicate your thoughts, feelings, experiences to me so that I can understand your perspective. Even if some of what we say seems contradictory, this is okay because we are not talking about an issue that is purely black and white (unless we are speaking of right and wrong). I want to discuss this issue with REAL people, not those who are too shallow to even admit that they can understand the other side or say, "That's a good and valid point. Maybe I need to adjust my thinking a little." I am sure you did not intend it to be so, but to forfeit an explanation with a dismissal in the form of "you are not capable of understanding" is to resort to ad hominem. You have no idea how my imagination works and what my capacity is to comprehend an opposing viewpoint.
No matter how many friends I have in LE, I absolutely agree with you that my opinion of an officer's public perception would change drastically were I to walk in one's shoes. As an aside, most of those who know me, including cops, think that I would have been a good cop. But this thread is not about me.
Now, M-Rex. There must be more to you than you share in your posts. I have nothing against you personally, but you write so one-sidedly, so guardedly, so one-dimensionally that I find it hard to lend any weight to your words. You seem to make no effort to even understand anyone with thoughts and feelings unlike your own. I take a very long time to articulate my position, statements, assertions, and questions in as friendly and discussion-conducive manner as I can. Sometimes I get a little heated--I apologize. You come along, ignore the bulk of what I have said and dismiss me as someone who actively looks for and enjoys stories about cops who have probably just made the biggest error of their lives. I am able to see these cops as people just like me who get caught up in emotion or somehow get too far down a path that they assumed ran parallel from the straight and narrow. Do you think that my heart does not go out to these men and their families? Falling onto the wrong side of the law sucks! But when it happens the consequences must be administered. It grieves me when you refuse to comment on the actual topic of a thread and instead ridicule those who choose to state opinions different than yours.
Excellent post, sam59! Be aware, there are a lot of anti-cop bigots who inhabit 'The High Road'. These folks fester for stories like this to crop up in the media so they can post them and propagate new cop-bash threads. Much of their lives, they live in fear, and law enforcement provides a good scapegoat for their anxiety.
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Then how can you blame me, after hearing story after story about corrupt and/or abusive cops, for fearing finding myself in the hands of a police officer, since I have no way of knowing which of them is, or is at least capable of being, corrupt and/or abusive?
These types of folks want stories like the one in the Sacramento Bee to be published because it justifies their warped world view. They want to believe that all 'po-lice' are corrupt as a justification for their free floating fear. Sad.