THIS is why we should be suspicious of police!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well first, this is the Sacramento Sheriff's Department we're talking about.

The whole department has good reason to suspect that the agency is corrupt from the top down:

http://www.equalccw.com/colafrancescopapers.pdf

Second, the staff are fully aware that the deputy who took the above police report spent over 10 years in "Siberia".

"Siberia" is that department's slang for the secondary jail facility out in the boonies - Rio Cosumnes:

http://www.sacsheriff.com/organization/court_&_correctional_services/RCCC/index.cfm

It's where they stick deputies "gone bad", either failures as street cops or people politically on the "outs" with the brass. I'd be very interested to learn if the abuses in the first post above came from there because it's where that agency puts their real screwballs...basically EVERYBODY in there on both sides of the bars is in a "jail", because of this long tradition of stashing screwups with badges in there.

Third:

I am aware of an even more serious set of abuse charges that...are just mind-blowing, much worse than the material in the first post above, and are confidential for the moment. Sorry I can't give details but I'm quite serious. The nature of the issue suggests that the situation at the main jail isn't much better than at "Siberia".

Upshot: this isn't a case of a few rogue deputies - the whole department is fundamentally ill from the top down and I would NEVER trust any member of this department for help nor call on them in any emergency.
 
I dont necessarily believe that a wish to "whup gangstas" is the sign of a bully.


I dont think the police feel there is an "US Vs Them" mentality at all when talking about the general public. Thats far to broad a statement and as Jashobeam said, your lumping them together. Now, if your talking about "Police Vs. Drug dealers/gang members and all the other POS's running around that are nothing but leaches on society", then you would be correct, it is "US Vs Them".

Who decides who is a gansta, who is a drug dealer/gang members? Lots of things can be used to label anyone a gansta/drug dealer/gang member.

The fact remains that SOME in LE have a us v them attitude. SOME in LE are bad apples. This is a fact, and just like SOME of society are bad apples, it stands to reason that Some Cops are bad. What bothers me more than bad cops, is the silence from Good Cops when the bad ones get caught with their hands in the cookie jar.
 
"Some bad ones", yeah, except some entire agencies are rotten from the top down. Even if some in there are acting honestly (and in some cases it's so bad they're literally in the minority) the fact that they're willing to stay in that atmosphere makes them suspect.

The Portland OR PD is another one like this...more weird stories come out of that one agency than any other their size.
 
I hesitate to make any comment on this type of thread, and probably should trust that. So to make a stupid move, I will say that I have previously made comments in other threads involving police corruption, etc. that because of the actions of a few of the police (if indeed it is only a few), I cannot trust the rest. From this I received comments about how 'interesting' my logic was, like my prejudice was just a gross, uneducated generalization based on one or two incidents. It was made to seem as if I was using the same logic as if, for example, I were robbed by an austrailian and made the crazy statement that all austrailians are unholy brigands. But guess what the difference between a police officer and an austrailian is? One has been given massive power and authority over me. One has a huge machine behind him, designed to protect him, while finding every way to keep me under their thumb (if they choose to do so) as long as possible. One lives in a system with an internal checks-and-balances function akin to a man looking himself in the mirror to decide if he is right in his own way.

As Americans or patriots or whatever you want to call it, we say we're supposed to question authority, that we shouldn't let government get too much power, keep things in check. It's the basis for our government. It keeps tyrants from gaining footholds too rapidly. But as soon as you turn those innately distrustful eyes towards law enforcement in general, you're a filthy cop basher, a knee-jerking ingrate with an authority problem.

Too many 'isolated incidents' have occurred for anyone to reasonably say that it just can't happen. It has. Are the vast majority of police good people? Doing their job to the best of their ability? Absolutely I believe they are. They are people working a job that must often be so hard I can't imagine it. For lots of reasons I haven't even considered. But there are so, so many ways based on the latitude and power they have for some to abuse their position that only a fool would blindly trust them. Reverse the tables. Most cops probably think most people are good, honest people who wouldn't try to harm them. But would any cop with half a brain go up to a traffic stop with complete trust of the individual behind the wheel?

As far as an 'us vs. them' mentality, I would say a large potential problem in that arena is for individual officers to eventually see themselves as benevolent protectors of us sheeple, us second class citizens. It's the mentality I hear everytime I see a chief of police on TV giving an announcement.

My qualm is that my protection and safety are my responsibility. I expect to be able to go about my day and not be subject to the whim of anyone, police or otherwise, if I haven't done anything unlawful. I expect to go my own way and not be messed about with if I've commited no wrong. I understand they have a job to weed through the average citizens to find the goblins. Like I said, hard job to attempt, I wouldn't want it. It's necessary to keep the bad elements in check. I get it.

But the structure exists such that the moral fortitude of the department will be set by that of the 'higher ups'. If those in charge condone any kind of abuses, then the ones below can get away with what they want. And the 'good ones', as we have seen, often bite their tongues. Those at the head of the department aren't pure demigods, they're fallable human beings.

That is my peace and I am glad, for better or worse, to get it off my chest. It will almost certainly go largely unseen, though, since I imagine the bulk of people on another side of the river will just overlook this thread as another anti-cop bellow of hot air.
 
Steamdragon, your post is so entirely inflammatory, I will not delve into the details, except for one point.

A cop on duty has NO rights.
He gives them up to take the power and authority of an agent of the State or other government entity.
It is arguable that he regains his rights, when he goes home at night.
But then, is he not "on duty" 24/7?

This is completely wrong. We have the right to defend ourselves and others. We have the same rights any other civilian does, because that is what we are, civilians.

Above all else, we have the same right to due process as anyone else. If we are accused of wrongdoing, we have the right to counter our accusers, and be heard. Until that right is fulfilled, I do not pass judgement on something that happened 1000 miles away, and neither should you.
 
When was the last time you saw a cop quoted in a news story saying that another member of his or her department made a bad shoot?
I hate to take one piece of someone's post, but this is a foolish thing to ask. If you had worked alongside someone for 5 years or more, would you say that? No. You would say he is under investigation or some such if you said anything at all.

I think part of the problem here is the posters who are highly suspicious of LEO's will never be satisfied unless all the LEO's on this board rant and rave and condemn every questionable act by an LEO that hits the news.

I don't want to downplay the bad acts of these Sacramento cops, but some of you want to condemn ALL cops to hard labor in prison every time one of them does something bad. It helps to not sensationalize things by refering to all LEO's everywhere when you are really talking about a few LEO's in Sacramento. I begin to think that some of you work for tabloid newspapers on the side. Surely, some of you are not doing this deliberately to bait the LEO's on this board. :confused:
 
Just what I expected

Well I received a few answers that I expected. Usually the same theme. One time I saw this cop do this that and the other, or my uncle/brother/3rd cousins mother had a cop beat her so bad her uterus fell out etc... I do not condone any illegal activity by police, that is not and has not been my point. All that seems to be mentioned by a select few are the bad contacts they had with the police or the "stories" they heard. It's funny how the good contacts never get mentioned. It's a no win situation, everyone needs a bad guy. The cops get the ???? and the fireman get the hugs.

Ill repeat, try doing the job and I gurantee your outlook will change.

Kudo's to Spookey he has made the most sense so far with a balanced look at the situation.
 
One thing I notice about debates like this is, because they are so complex, there are more than one right answer. There may be shades of grey and different sides to the story. It is easy to just say that cops just want to crack some skulls or to say that the preps had it comming but both are wrong and both are probably right.

If the prep was a life long dirt bag that never did a thing for anyone but himself and was a drain on the community, I have no problem with someone knocking him around a little. If the cop was just a bully and he enjoyed abusing his power, I have no problem with throwing the book at him.

The problem is, you are not going to find a lot of willing to do what LEOs have to do for what they get paid. My friend is a cop and he makes decent money but he has a degree and has to deal with the human trash that we wish we never have to face. Because of him, I can see both sides of the story. There are some people that I really wouldn't mind if they were removed from the earth. I just don't know if I want cops deciding who is guilty and who isn't.

It is very complex so all I will say is, most cops are worthless but at least 20-30% of them are okay. They are sort of like garbage men, we have to pay them to do the job we don't want to do. If I had to put up with what they put up with, I would resort to violence all the time. I am in favor of affrimitive action on this one. The more diverse the police force is, the better for everyone.
 
Art Eatman said:
As usual, the operative word is "some" or "few", as with any sort of group.

One thing that might be regarded as a civic duty is to keep an ear out for rumors of this sort of behavior, in an effort to follow up and try to ensure it doesn't' either become reality or become worse.

Part of "Who will watch the watchers?"

Art


Also, the Sacramento Bee is a very left leaning paper. Expect any story dealing with law enforcement to be heavily slanted and spun.
 
But if you substitute the word "cop" for any other proffesion, like doctor or fireman, plumber, mechanic, etc. does it make a difference?

Oh yes there is a tremendous difference. You see, the "cops" have a legal monopoly on the use of force to enforce laws. They are power, plain and simple. And when they misuse that power, they need to get hammered to the max, lest they grow emboldened to misuse it further.
 
Forget it. I had just written a lengthy response about cops I have prosecuted, or seen prosecuted, for criminal acts. You know what? It means nothing. For, just as I say bad cops are an exception, someone will surely point to the criminal convictions of cops as an exception.

The simple fact of the matter is thatthere are people on this board who have no trust in LEO's. I know from reading other threads that all prosecutors are just politically motivated, out for convictions at all costs, and only do the right thing when it serves their own purposes. Never mind that I've been a prosecutor for 11 years as of November 14th. I carry a badge. I must be dirty, cover up crimes committed by cops, and help cops violate the rights of the people.

Why is it impossible for people to believe that not all LEO's are dirty, self-serving garbage?
 
CAS700850 said:
Why is it impossible for people to believe that not all LEO's are dirty, self-serving garbage?

For the same reason it's impossible to believe lawyers, doctors, etc., aren't dirty self-serving garbage: the bad ones make the news and the good ones don't like to bad mouth the others. The bar is a prime example. Slime bag lawyers are fairly rare, but they make the news because the rest of us don't like to hunt our own. We don't want to file complaints with the bar, push for disbarment, etc. There's an attorney here who files baseless claims to get the initial fee, and steals from his clients and partners yet still has his license. The bar suspended his license, but suspended the suspension when he got an accountant to handle the money. Great for him, but terrible for the practice of law.

Similarly, when people see cops do something wrong yet nothing happens (either because nothing actually happens or what is perceived as the punishment the rest of the world would receive), respect and trust is lost.
 
Buzz is pretty much right on target. Professionals want to regulate themselves. . . . . then don't. Combined with negative coverage of malefactors with the absence of coverage of professional groups policing their own and you get just exactly what we see on this thread and others.

I'm a professional also. A professional peddler. I'm already consider scum in some worlds but I don't have an organization claiming to police me and those like me.

A word to the sufficient is wise. It is not a good idea in today's world to claim the right to regulate a professional organization and then fail to do so.
 
CAS700850 said:
Forget it. I had just written a lengthy response about cops I have prosecuted, or seen prosecuted, for criminal acts. You know what? It means nothing. For, just as I say bad cops are an exception, someone will surely point to the criminal convictions of cops as an exception.

The simple fact of the matter is thatthere are people on this board who have no trust in LEO's. I know from reading other threads that all prosecutors are just politically motivated, out for convictions at all costs, and only do the right thing when it serves their own purposes. Never mind that I've been a prosecutor for 11 years as of November 14th. I carry a badge. I must be dirty, cover up crimes committed by cops, and help cops violate the rights of the people.

Why is it impossible for people to believe that not all LEO's are dirty, self-serving garbage?

+1 CAS

I'm in the same canoe, just on another paddle.
 
There must be a high percentage of LEOs present on this forum. I think that is beneficial.

Normally, in the real world, if your brother is a cop, or your neighbor, or somebody in your circle, as it were, you have more of a feeling of comfort around cops. (Maybe not :neener: )

I only know the locals in the little town 7 miles away and a few (2) of the 4 deputy sheriffs for my county. I know no state troopers.

All of them I know are decent people. I guess one could say that 100 percent of the sample of the cops I know (based on my knowledge) are decent law abiding folks.

I hear some on this forum (maybe most) say that not all cops are good. Even the LEOs will agree. If they don't they're fools.

Now to the bashing, the awful bashing.

I yam sure that most bgs that frequent this forum (if there are any) will not cop bash. They know they done wrong and therefore have whatever they get coming to them. The bashers are guys like me who have been wrongfully treated (at least in our own minds). Other gunnies, such as myself can see the erosion of our rights as codified in the BoR and see the cops as the agents (the enforcers) of the politicians who are eroding those rights.

I like to visualize them (the enforcers) as those funny looking guys in the white plastic suits and the big plastic helmets with sun glass eyes that run around in the Star Wars movies. Their identities are hidden from us. They are not the cops we know, socialize with, live next to or whatever.

So here's an analogy.......

You take 99 Corn snakes (beneficial, harmless, the good cops) and 1 Coral snake (evil, deadly and quick, the one bad cop), put them in a basket. They both look alike except one is red, black, yellow and the other is red, yellow, black or something like that. Now you put on a blindfold and reach into the basket to pick one of them out.

Does anybody wanna try? Hah, not good enough odds? This analogy works both ways; for the citizen OR the cops.

There is a slight difference in my analogy and your basic traffic stop.

1) Sometimes the citizen, driver, doesn't get the choice. He is just the one picked out for dwp, dwb, low riding rear springs, wrong color car, soberiety check, insurance check, whatever. Yes the leo apologist can say, "Don't speed and you won't get stopped.", but the ordinary driver, often is a victim of chance.

Thus the apprehension, fear, call it what you like. The cop walking up to your window COULD be the Coral Snake and there is nothing you can do about it.

2) The LEO does get to make that choice. Granted, the chief can shout, "Stop that car." and short of desertion, like in NO, you gotta do it, except, no, you don't gotta do it. You could quit.

Other than quitting, the cop can attempt to improve his odds by removing his blindfold (as an agent of the state, he gets to) and maybe kicking the lid off the basket so that he can shine his flashlight in and make a wiser choice.

So there is the rub.

The driver don't get a choice. He has to hope that the cop stopping him is a Corn Snake and it probably is. It's perhaps just that the driver doesnt like the top getting kicked off his basket and a light shined in his face.
 
I never said ALL cops are bad

Sam59 said:
Ill repeat, try doing the job and I gurantee your outlook will change.
Sir, what exactly do you mean by this statement? Are you implying that my idea of what is right and what is wrong will change? Do you espouse situation ethics? You said something similar in your first post to which I replied. Why did you not respond to at least clarify or disagree or explain that I misinterpreted your assertion?

Let me take this time to say that I find it amazing that most cops are able to routinely exhibit the restraint that it requires to professionally handle certain types of criminals. I am somewhat ashamed to confess that there are certain types of criminals that a part of me would enjoy seeing mistreated if not outright tortured. But LE are supposed to enforce the Law, and hopefully they have faith in the law they uphold and believe that the law itself is sufficient to punish those who break it.

albanian said:
Because of him, I can see both sides of the story.
Mr. Albanian, do you also espouse situation ethics? It appears you incorrectly assume that there are two sides to every story; that is to say that both parties are always partly in the right and partly in the wrong. This is false. Sometimes there is a victim and then there is a perpetrator. Do you see both sides of a rape story? A lot of cops have been through and seen some awful things, but according to a lot of rapists and child molestors, so have they. Surely you do not intend to imply that seeing both sides means to approve of the actions of both sides.

Now, if Mr. Albanian and Mr. Sam59 are saying that they can see cause for both sides of the "Us vs. Them" mentality, let me also say that so can I. But regardless of which side of that equation one lies, the law should be the law and right and wrong should remain as such. I work in retail. I can understand when a customer gets irritated and becomes rude. I can also understand why an employee would be annoyed by this behavior and respond with an attitude or a smart-ass comment. Though I understand both sides, I don't agree with either way of handling the situation. Someone like me, who has been working with customers for many years, is LESS likely than a newer employee to snap at a customer because I have become desensitized to it and no longer take it personally, and I have a better understanding of the job I am paid to do. Hopefully, cops who have for many years dealt with "scum" should be less likely to snap and retaliate than newer ones.

LASTLY: There are a good number of posts on this thread that definitely DO NOT say that ALL cops are bad. Those of you who only reference the posts that polarize, make all opposing views into a single straw man argument and contribute and lend credibility to the "Us vs. Them" polarization while ignoring those of us who strive to maintain a meaningful discussion. I have told stories on other threads of good interactions I have had with LE. I myself was arrested for DUI and received proper treatment.

If I have misunderstood the statements I quoted from Mr. Sam59 and Mr. Albanian, I apologize and request clarification. Please respond in some way. Sam59, you have twice tossed that statement out there and I have twice replied. If I am in error regarding your words, please do me the honor of telling me so.
 
Okay, let me say it like this. THere are cops who are as much scumbags as the criminals that we expect them to protect us from. No big surprise for anyone here. I've prosecuted some of them. MOst of the good cops I know have nothiong good to say about these guys, and have congratulated me on prosecuting them. The "blue wall of silence" may exist, but when you've got a cop who is doing drugs, ripping off dealers, shaking down dealers, and in one case, having sex with a 14 year old girl, not even the "blue wall of silence" is going to protect them.

Now, I also know that, on many occassions, people on this board have complained about overly aggressive police actions. Coffee can mean anything? Are there cops who are too aggresive in pursuing drugs, DUI's etc.? Well, that depends on your perspective. A member of MADD will award the over-zealous cop pursuing DUI's, while some here would see his tactics as being in violation of the individual's rights. Is the cop a bad cop because he pushes the envelope in pursuit of his goal of catching drugs dealers? Again, the answer will depend on the perspective of the person looking at the actions. A libertarian will view any infringment of the suspects rights as being too much. Yet, some of the community groups around here will complain if the cop respects the dealer's rights.

And, what about the cop, a friend of my father's, who once told me that when I got to be old enough, and living on my own, I should get a gun, learn to use it, and protect myself? I'm sure the Brady camp would say he's a bad cop for telling me to get a gun, especially since I was 15 at the time. People on this board would applaud him.

As I was told when I started this job, every day, someone will hate you. I guess I just didn't expect to see it so much on this board.
 
US V Them

Jash,
I gave you credit for an earlier post when you mentioned not lumping them altogether. I have not aimed my comments at your post's because they are well thought out and articulate. I went back and reviewed your first post to me and I will give you my perspective on it.

Quote by Jashobeam-By working with scum day in and day out, do you start to see all citizens as scum, or at least believe that each citizen is capable of acting like scum?

No I do not remotely see all citizens as scum. The second part is a broad question but I think all citizens have the potential if caught in the right circumstances to act like scum, but I personally judge them individually upon contact.

Are you wary of finding yourself in a vulnerable position with a potentially dangerous citizen?

This question puzzles me a bit. I am not sure if I am interpreting it right but here goes. YOUR DAMN RIGHT I am wary of finding myself in a vulnerable position with a potentially dangerous citizen! Any cop who is not has a death wish. Again, I am not sure how you meant that question but if I took it correctly I am surprised that you would ask such a for the lack of a better word, stupid question. I am not calling you stupid so don't take it that way.

Then how can you blame me, after hearing story after story about corrupt and/or abusive cops, for fearing finding myself in the hands of a police officer, since I have no way of knowing which of them is, or is at least capable of being, corrupt and/or abusive?

There is no answer to this, your fearing something that you have no control over and judging by the quote your fear stems from "story after story" which I assume means via the media. Well, if you believe everything (or should I say anything) the media pumps out then there is nothing I can say that will make a difference. I have personally witnessed the media's account of "the incident", exaggeration,cover up and boldface lies.

Which type of law breaking citizen do you consider to be scum?

This is a pretty easy question for me. I am sure you have your pet peeves in retail and I have mine.
1. Child molesters
2. Women beaters
3. Child abusers
4. Anybody that attempts to send me to the hospital or the morgue.

Thats my top 4.

I have no problem with cops who are (continuous tense) walking the walk. Are you attempting to make allowances for cops who WERE walking the walk but finally snapped when they came into contact with one too many scums?

I think you read into things a bit. I guess we could fire every one that makes a mistake or loses their temper.

If I were capable of understanding a cop's passive-aggressive misplacement of anger, are you insinuating that I should then find such actions acceptable?

You clearly not capable of understanding what I am saying, that was my point of "walking the walk". You will by the sounds of it never understand because I will go out on a limb and say you could not handle the job. Plain and simple, it would eat you up.
I am not sure what actions your talking about, if it's the video then I do not agree with what they did. What they did gives a black eye to all LEO's.

What if this "scum" was at one time an upstanding citizen who, also, WAS a continuous walker of the walk but snapped in his turn as a result of being subjected to some last straw of personal injustice and as a result committed the crime that labeled him "scum"? Will you make allowances for him, or will you turn a blind eye to his mistreatment?

I think you read into the question a little much. I don't agree with what they did.

Now if this person somehow got the upper hand against a cop and brutalized him, do you think I would defend his actions or make excuses or allowances? No. Whether or not a person, ANY PERSON, is typically good and law abiding is irrelevant; no excuse should be substituted for the punishment deserved for the commission of a violent or brutal crime.

I am not defending them. My main point was if you did the job your outlook on the profession would change. I guess it's a moot point since there is no way to prove either side.
 
Excellent post, sam59! Be aware, there are a lot of anti-cop bigots who inhabit 'The High Road'. These folks fester for stories like this to crop up in the media so they can post them and propagate new cop-bash threads. Much of their lives, they live in fear, and law enforcement provides a good scapegoat for their anxiety.
Then how can you blame me, after hearing story after story about corrupt and/or abusive cops, for fearing finding myself in the hands of a police officer, since I have no way of knowing which of them is, or is at least capable of being, corrupt and/or abusive?
These types of folks want stories like the one in the Sacramento Bee to be published because it justifies their warped world view. They want to believe that all 'po-lice' are corrupt as a justification for their free floating fear. Sad.
 
M-Rex said:
Excellent post, sam59! Be aware, there are a lot of anti-cop bigots who inhabit 'The High Road'. These folks fester for stories like this to crop up in the media so they can post them and propagate new cop-bash threads. Much of their lives, they live in fear, and law enforcement provides a good scapegoat for their anxiety.

These types of folks want stories like the one in the Sacramento Bee to be published because it justifies their warped world view. They want to believe that all 'po-lice' are corrupt as a justification for their free floating fear. Sad.

Nice. But I'd say there are as many "the cops can do no wrong" types as there are bashers. And there are a lot of us fed up with both sides. But hey, what feeds the persecution complex on both sides, right?
 
A blast from the past, but a good read:


Cops at War
The drug war and the militarization of Mayberry

By Joel Miller
12/30/02

©Luis Arenal
Waking up to the concussive sound of explosions, the rumble of heavy machinery, and the blaring crackle of a public-address system is hardly how most people enjoy greeting the day. Much worse when those things are accompanied by nearly four-dozen heavily armed police officers with a tank-like armored vehicle, seizing control of a city block.

This isn't a scene out of Judge Dredd or some dystopian cop movie set in the near-distant future. As far as news cycles go, it's actually old news, happening, as it did, in the wee hours of Oct. 17, 2002, in Whiteaker, Ore., when police staged what residents described as a military-style invasion of their neighborhood.

While laying siege to the block, authorities were, according to the Dec. 5 Eugene Register-Guard, targeting three houses in particular with hopes of nabbing a sizeable cache of cannabis. Once on the block, police stormed through the properties and secured the area, blocking traffic and guarding alleyways. An ambulance waiting in the wings tells volumes about the danger involved for police and suspects alike.

As has become common practice in such situations, police did not knock to announce their presence at the targeted houses. They burst through the doors in a massive display of force, setting off flash-bang grenades, to quickly gain control of the residents and the grounds.

"Police pulled four people–including a nude woman and another woman wearing only underpants and a T-shirt–from their beds and kept them in handcuffs in a room of one of the houses for several hours," reported Rebecca Nolan for the Register-Guard. "One woman reported that an officer covered her head with a black fabric bag and removed it only when she agreed to cooperate."

"They came in here and scared everyone to death," said Marcella Monroe, who co-owns the three houses with her husband Tam Davage. She was the woman who got the black-bag treatment. "They trashed our houses and accused us of a crime that they have no evidence for."

There was some evidence. Court documents say that more than 500 pot plants were found at a friend's Portland home in an August raid. But the Whiteaker raid turned up almost nothing. One tenant was found with less than an ounce of marijuana–only a misdemeanor and hardly the sum the force was anticipating. The team did find evidence of cannabis cultivation, but nothing that cannot be explained away by other factors, including Monroe's landscaping business, along with the equipment and materials from renovation work being done on two of the houses. The contractor doing the renovation, in fact, said she saw no evidence of drug growing or distribution.

Regardless of the guilt, what about the raid tactics?

"We rely on the element of surprise and speed," said Capt. Steve Swenson, headman of special operations for Eugene police. "The third element is an overwhelming display of force when you come through the door." Swenson admitted that the tactic "sounds bad, but it prevents problems. We don't know who we're dealing with when we go through the door."

The overwhelming display of brute force is routine in SWAT raids. "Particularly in narcotics warrant service, to make their entry as dynamic and overwhelming as possible, SWAT teams often use the swarm or saturation method," explains Capt. Robert L. Snow in his book, SWAT Teams: Explosive Face-offs With America's Deadliest Criminals. "This technique involves the immediate flooding of the inside of a location with police officers. Doing this gives the officers immediate control of the inside of the location, discourages thoughts of resistance, and prevents the destruction of any evidence. The idea behind the technique is to immediately dominate the site with officers and firepower."

But Snow points to a problem: "This tactic, however, has a certain inherent danger level should any shooting break out, since officers could very easily be caught in the cross fire." Interestingly, Snow doesn't seem to share the same concern for the suspects–even plainly innocent ones. He only mentions police being accidentally shot. The reader is left with the presumption that if the residents are "caught in the cross fire," then that's just tough turkey–they're only criminals.

But, of course, they're not only criminals. Primarily, our legal system regards them as suspects, and police are expected to protect the civil rights of suspects just as much as any other citizen. They are, after all, innocent until proven guilty. Sometimes, sadly, raid victims never get a chance to prove their innocence.

When the sheriff's office of Preble County, Ohio, got word from an informant that residents at a rural farmhouse were dealing marijuana, it conducted a three-day investigation, and then sent its emergency services unit on a late-evening, no-knock raid. Because the farmhouse had possibly more than a dozen men on site, a heavily armed team of 15 officers was sent.

The result, besides what the Dayton Daily News referred to as "a small amount of marijuana, pipes and a bong, papers used in rolling the drug, and weapons," was a dead suspect, Clayton J. Helriggle, who police shot as he came down the stairs with what they claim was a 9mm handgun.

Helriggle's own mother admits that it was regular practice for her son and men at the house to smoke pot in the evening after work. But was such a raid necessary? Police said they found materials used to distribute marijuana, true, but sandwich bags are also used to wrap up a ham-and-cheese. The other items found indicate nothing more than use of the drug, which was found only in "a small amount"–hardly worth sending in the big guns.

As for possessions of weapons, it was a farmhouse; what farmhouse doesn't have varmint rifles and the like? The very incident which led to Helriggle's death is likely the police's fault more than anything. By raiding a house at twilight, can a suspect be expected to behave any differently than picking up a personal defense weapon and coming down the stairs to face an invader of his home? Responsible homeowners and renters should be expected to defend their residencies from invaders.

What we are seeing here is the militarization of police, with law enforcement officers becoming shock troops in the war on drugs and crime.

The problem goes back to the metaphor itself. War and policing are vastly different. In common parlance the military's job is to kill people and break things. David B. Kopel of the Independence Institute quotes Reagan administration Assistant Secretary of Defense Lawrence Korb's observation: Soldiers are supposed to "vaporize, not 'Mirandize.'" On the other hand, with scrupulous attention to the suspect's civil rights, police are trained to solve problems with a multitude of solutions, lethal violence being the last rung on the escalating ladder of force.

Considering the vastly different roles of police and military, it is odd to find the U.S. military helping to train local police and SWAT teams. But given this ever-closing gap, should we be surprised when our police act like soldiers?

Some police chiefs recognize the contradiction in police and military roles and the danger of mixing them. As Diana Cecilia Weber points out in a Cato Institute briefing paper, "Warrior Cops," because of a partnership between the Department of Justice and Department of Defense, local police forces are able to get their hands on pretty stunning equipment. "I was offered tanks, bazookas, anything I wanted," said Nick Pastore, former police chief of New Haven, Conn. (The Whiteaker armored vehicle in which police arrived was actually a loaner from the National Guard.) Pastore said he "turned it all down because it feeds a mind-set that you're not a police officer serving a community, you're a soldier at war."

Pastore is in the minority, however. Around the nation police are grabbing military handouts like kids with toys at Christmas. Says Weber, "Between 1995 and 1997 the Department of Defense gave police departments 1.2 million pieces of military hardware, including 73 grenade launchers and 112 armored personnel carriers. The Los Angeles Police Department has acquired 600 Army surplus M-16s." While one might expect that from L.A., the militarism trend is national. "Even small-town police departments are getting into the act. The seven-officer department in Jasper, Florida, is now equipped with fully automatic M-16s."

This "militarization of Mayberry," as some have called it, is a far cry from how the founders envisioned law enforcement.

When the founders wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, they were living close to a time when the British Crown would send soldiers to search properties without warrants. At the same time, officers of the Crown could get Writs of Assistance that were technically search warrants but were really just blanket licenses to search anyone without cause. Today we're seeing a melding of the two. With the militarization of the police and the overriding pressure to combat drugs, the constitutional protections framed by the founders in response to the crimes of their day are being violently repealed.

It's hard for people to be "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects," as the Fourth Amendment ensures, when black-fatigued men set off flash-bang grenades, kick down doors, and storm in armed with machine pistols and unpleasant demeanors.

What if the search is "reasonable"–supported by probable cause, etc.? In principle, that's the type of search the founders would approve. But in both raids mentioned previously, the investigations by police indicated they'd find serious drug cultivation and distribution operations. Considering what they actually found, it may not have been improbable, but it certainly wasn't probable cause. In the Preble raid, the investigation only lasted three days.

As the militarization of police presses on, the Fourth Amendment's protections–designed to shield citizens from government abuse–mean less and less. As a result, so do your freedom and safety, even in your own home.

Joel Miller is managing editor of WND Books, a partnership between WorldNetDaily.com and Thomas Nelson Publishers.

http://www.rutherford.org/oldspeak/articles/law/oldspeak-cops.asp
 
M-Rex said:
Not hardly.

A well-planned rejoinder, striking to the very heart of the matter. Well, not quite but still. Yet, with a signature that says "100% Pro-Police" not unexpected. Does 100% pro-police allow for the possibility of admitting police error? Do posters who say that they will always give the police the benefit of the doubt, despite the evidence presented? Or posters who state that they will not judge a cop's actions until a court rules on the issue (thereby abrogating their own judgment and common sense)? Or someone who states that whenever a person talks about the problems with police, that person is engaging in police bashing?

You'll find all those examples on the board. Surely, there are just as many as the examples you've cited of people who want to be the subject of police brutality so they can talk about.

Here's a clue, guys. You're complaining about the bad press causing loss of respect for the profession. Welcome to how the rest of the world lives. Want that to change? Do something about it, rather than complain about it. The rest of us professionals in hated industries who aren't interested in complaining about the loss of respect (anyone hugged your doctor lately? How about your lawyer?) are doing precisely that. We're working to change said lack of respect by working on the perceived problems, not complaining when someone discusses them.

[Edited after M-Rex was confused by the typos in the second paragraph]
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top