This nails it shut - Norinco

[mack69]

Norinco is literally owned by the Chinese Army

Something wrong about buying an implement of freedom from a communist-controlled repressive regime that silences (literally, and often fatally) any form of dissent

Two very good reasons not to ever buy any of these items from Norinco...
I didn't know that Norinco was wholly owned and operated by the Chinese military and that all funds from sales go directly into their coffers until I had attempted to buy a Norinco shotgun and it was refused by my local FFL. When I stopped by to ask why, my friendly FFL dealer explained the whole deal to me....I've been waiting for a good Mossy or Remmy since then.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Norinco is literally owned by the Chinese Army...

Settles it for me—not that I was thinking about buying Chinese guns in the oft-cited "first place."

 

[Jeff Timm]

Uhh, folks, Red China is a Communist country. There is only one thing, the STATE! It is everything and owns everything.

If I am elected, assuming I ever get rich enough to run, I will ban all imports from China, Inc.

Geoff
Who will have to win the lottery twice and divorce my wife, change my name, wipe out a generation of internet postings, and then do some serious tail covering. I'm too honest to run as a Democrat. Sigh..

 

[saltydog]

What I find interesting is that no weapons can be imported from China but Walmart can have the rest of the Chineese market.

 

[IndianaDean]

I've been doing the best I can to avoid buying anything made in China anyway, because I don't like their government, and I don't like our jobs going away to them.
I know I can't do anything about either, but whenever I can I buy whatever I need that is not made in China. So a Norinco will never be on my list anyway.

 

[Joejojoba111]

If China's viewing us as the enemy, supplying us all with dirt cheap firearms is a funny opening move...

 

[Janitor]

Hm, well, if Norinco can't import any more guns here, then it really can't help them any to own or purchase one secondhand, can it?

I might have an ideological objection to Ruger's stance on selling standard-capacity rifle magazines to peasants, but since I've already got a Mini-14, it doesn't really do them any good if I keep it or sell it, and it doesn't hurt them in the slightest if I throw it in the trash or give it to a friend. So if you see some dude at a Gun Show selling a Norinco SKS or a Norinco Shottie, why not buy it? It's not like any more money's going to get back to the commies.

Not true.

-> The more popular a Norinco is ... the more they will sell (*buh*)
-> The better the gun they produce ... the more they will sell
-> The better the value of the guns they produce ... the more they will sell
-> The better the guns they produce hold their resale value ... the more they will sell
-> The better their guns move through the used market ...
-

 

[Oleg Volk]

Personally, I want Chinese, Russian and other foreign guns available for sale here as options, in addition to the domestic models. "Punishing other countries" with bans or tariffs mostly hurts Americans by reducing the available options, raising prices AND reduces the incentive to other countries to keep open trade ties with us. WW2 was facilitated in part by the trade wars which preceded it, you might recall.

I'd like to buy Russian or Chinese PPSh, PPS, RPK, RPD, M14 and more modern designs...but the benevolent US govt. prohibits me from doing so. Who is harmed more -- the Russian or the Chinese governments or I?

 

[Janitor]

Who is harmed more -- the Russian or the Chinese governments or I?

Well - the Russian and/or Chinese governments, that's who. Why ... there's a solid $19.37 profit (at least - may be as high as $23.49) not made in one of those countries because you can't get a new imported AK or Chinese 1911.
-

 

[Master Blaster]

The other side of the coin is S&W has been anti 2nd Amendment in the past. Ruger has also not always been "pro" friendly. Kahr is owned by the son of the Moonies founder. Where do we stop????????????????

I haven't noticed that S&W and Ruger were building nuclear weapons pointed at my family with the money I spend on their products HAVE YOU????

I try not to buy anything made in China, but every year it gets harder to do this. I guess we can thank Billy Bob Clinton for giving them that favored nation trading partner status without cleaning up their act.

 

[mercedesrules]

Personally, I want Chinese, Russian and other foreign guns available for sale here as options, in addition to the domestic models. "Punishing other countries" with bans or tariffs mostly hurts Americans by reducing the available options, raising prices AND reduces the incentive to other countries to keep open trade ties with us. WW2 was facilitated in part by the trade wars which preceded it, you might recall.

I'd like to buy Russian or Chinese PPSh, PPS, RPK, RPD, M14 and more modern designs...but the benevolent US govt. prohibits me from doing so. Who is harmed more -- the Russian or the Chinese governments or I?

I was hoping a sane person would show up.

Guys, US government arrogance #1 is to presume to limit what its own citizens can peacefully own; arrogance #2 is to presume control over what other sovereign countries or individuals exchange in the marketplace. Any state control of trade is a loss of freedom. Please be on the side of liberty.

 

[ScottS]

I haven't noticed that S&W and Ruger were building nuclear weapons pointed at my family with the money I spend on their products HAVE YOU????

I try not to buy anything made in China, but every year it gets harder to do this. I guess we can thank Billy Bob Clinton for giving them that favored nation trading partner status without cleaning up their act.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and Lenin said capitalists would sell rope to those who would hang them. How'd that work out for him? A lot of you are the same people that said we should not engage the FSU economically during the Cold War. The USSR fell largely because it couldn't keep up with the rising expectations of a middle class. My personal opinion is the more China develops economically, the less they will be able to stop the move to capitalism and a capitalist society.

My personal preference is for a cheap 1897 clone. Maybe I could buy one from one those many American companies that make them. No? Well, then I guess I'm going 'Rinco.

 

[GunnySkox]

Not true.

-> The more popular a Norinco is ... the more they will sell (*buh*)
-> The better the gun they produce ... the more they will sell
-> The better the value of the guns they produce ... the more they will sell
-> The better the guns they produce hold their resale value ... the more they will sell
-> The better their guns move through the used market ...
-

I'd assumed that Norinco couldn't import any new weapons here (hence the question in my post, "(*buh*)"), seems I was wrong. Sorry.

~GnSx

 

[Janitor]

I'd assumed that Norinco couldn't import any new weapons here (hence the question in my post, "(*buh*)"), seems I was wrong. Sorry.

~GnSx

Gunny -

Hope I didn't offend with that *buh* - it was meant as a comment to my own obvious statement.

I wasn't trying to imply that buying a used Norinco *specifically* would affect new sales in this country, given an import ban. (actually, on re reading your post, I should have simply said 'Ruger' instead of 'Norinco')

All I was trying to say was that how well a givin gun fares on the used marked has a direct relationship with how they do on the new. Your original post seemed to imply that wasn't true. I apologize if I misunderstood.
-

 

[Danus ex]

Personally, I want Chinese, Russian and other foreign guns available for sale here as options, in addition to the domestic models. "Punishing other countries" with bans or tariffs mostly hurts Americans by reducing the available options, raising prices AND reduces the incentive to other countries to keep open trade ties with us. WW2 was facilitated in part by the trade wars which preceded it, you might recall.

I'd like to buy Russian or Chinese PPSh, PPS, RPK, RPD, M14 and more modern designs...but the benevolent US govt. prohibits me from doing so. Who is harmed more -- the Russian or the Chinese governments or I?

Agreed. U.S. consumers deserve options, and U.S. companies NEED competition. They're always perfectly happy to sit on their butts and sell the same old thing at inflated prices, using the profit to gobble up small domestic startups. Excuse my rant, but I'm pleased with what's happening to Ford and GM; competing Japanese, German, French, Italian, Swedish, and British auto makers have been delivering a better car (not truck) for the money for the last few decades now. Ford and GM's arrogance and complacency with selling us the same old huge, gas guzzling, trampoline suspensioned, wet-sponge-handling rust boxes is finally killing them. Good riddance, America can do better.

Protectionist policy limits consumer choice and economic liberty. Sure, said policy might protect certain groups, but does so at the expense of everyone else.

 

[GunnySkox]

Gunny -

Hope I didn't offend with that *buh* - it was meant as a comment to my own obvious statement.

I wasn't trying to imply that buying a used Norinco *specifically* would affect new sales in this country, given an import ban. (actually, on re reading your post, I should have simply said 'Ruger' instead of 'Norinco')

All I was trying to say was that how well a givin gun fares on the used marked has a direct relationship with how they do on the new. Your original post seemed to imply that wasn't true. I apologize if I misunderstood.
-

*sniff, sniff* So much.. so much love on The High Road! I'm so sorry! */Oprah*



I s'pose my question now is this: Can Norinco export arms to the US at all anymore, or are only certain classes of firearm banned?

~GnSx

 

[Manedwolf]

competing Japanese, German, French, Italian, Swedish, and British auto makers have been delivering a better car (not truck) for the money for the last few decades now. Ford and GM's arrogance and complacency with selling us the same old huge, gas guzzling, trampoline suspensioned, wet-sponge-handling rust boxes is finally killing them. Good riddance, America can do better.

On that count, check out the Honda Ridgeline truck. Has a lot of "why didn't anyone else think of this" features, and will NOT be in for repairs like a Dodge, etc.

That, and while GM is making stuff in India and Ford in Mexico, my Honda was built in Ohio, and they give their workers great benefits.

 

[Danus ex]

On that count, check out the Honda Ridgeline truck. Has a lot of "why didn't anyone else think of this" features, and will NOT be in for repairs like a Dodge, etc.

That, and while GM is making stuff in India and Ford in Mexico, my Honda was built in Ohio, and they give their workers great benefits.

Oooh yeah, I forgot about that truck. Haven't seen many on the road I guess. Yet.

Just going off of memory, Toyota, Honda, BMW, and Hyundai have production facilities here, and I'm sure many others do as well. They seem to be doing relatively well financially, too.

 

[No_Brakes23]

Excuse my rant, but I'm pleased with what's happening to Ford and GM; competing Japanese, German, French, Italian, Swedish, and British auto makers have been delivering a better car (not truck) for the money for the last few decades now.

I agree with your basic statement, but I am curious how Ford owned Volvo and GM owned Saab are "competing" with said companies. Same thing goes for GM owned Lotus and Ford owned Aston Martin, Jaguar. German cars don't compete as they are all more expensive, (Yes even V-dubs.) French and Italian cars are more expensive and arguably worse than American cars. Japanese cars have undeniably raised the bar for GM/FoMoCo/Chrysler, but Subaru, Toyota, Mitsu, and Mazda are all owned by or in bed with American companies now.

On a related note, I love when people with Canadian or Mexican built Fords tell me I am unpatriotic for driving my Ford-engined Flat Rock Michigan-built Mazda 6.

I have to agree, though, foreign competition is a good thing. I would love it if Izmash were to make a Win'97. And I have to wonder why anyone would buy a $240 'Rinco 870 when you can get the real thing for not much more or even less.

All that being said, I don't buy Chinese guns, I just don't like 'em. I am all for Russian, Czech and Yugo firearms, though.

 

[ScottS]

I have to agree, though, foreign competition is a good thing. I would love it if Izmash were to make a Win'97. And I have to wonder why anyone would buy a $240 'Rinco 870 when you can get the real thing for not much more or even less.

I don't think I would, but my 'Rinco 870 clone was $165 delivered to my FFL, $180 out the door, and came with ghost ring sights and a longer-than-Remington magazine. The park is beautifully even, and the fit and finish is more than good enough for a working gun. Very nice, actually.

Just the price of adding the ghost ring sights to my Rem 870 was more than $165.

 

[Walter]

Manedwolf is right.

If a country does not allow their populace to "Keep and Bear arms" then screw them. They shouldn't be allowed to sell their wears in the U.S. It would also have the pleasant effect of helping the American Gun Industry.

That is my two cents anyway.

I wholeheartedly agree. So until Canada recognizes and respects my CCL,
I won't be buying any Para Ordnance products.

Walter

 

[Lucky]

Manedwolf is right.

If a country does not allow their populace to "Keep and Bear arms" then screw them. They shouldn't be allowed to sell their wears in the U.S. It would also have the pleasant effect of helping the American Gun Industry.

That is my two cents anyway.

Sounds like something else a small gov't has no business regulating. Sounds like something a nanny-state would love to regulate.

1)Control guns in country 2)Control guns from out of country.

If you control both of those what is left?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Hmmm...

It is my understanding that NORINCO is one of (if not) the largest manufacturing companies in the world.

I find it hard to belive that none of their other products are sold in America, does this ban apply to those products as well?

The ban instituted by the Bush Administration applies to ALL Norinco products, not just guns. However, I imagine a lot of Norinco products are cheap enough to export to a somewhat corrupt country and have their origin certified there to make them viable for U.S. import.

I know I've seen Mexican produced shotguns imported under various brand names that look an awful lot like certain Norinco products and Mexico has never exactly been known for its small arms industry.

 

[Danus ex]

I agree with your basic statement, but I am curious how Ford owned Volvo and GM owned Saab are "competing" with said companies. Same thing goes for GM owned Lotus and Ford owned Aston Martin, Jaguar. German cars don't compete as they are all more expensive, (Yes even V-dubs.) French and Italian cars are more expensive and arguably worse than American cars. Japanese cars have undeniably raised the bar for GM/FoMoCo/Chrysler, but Subaru, Toyota, Mitsu, and Mazda are all owned by or in bed with American companies now.

On a related note, I love when people with Canadian or Mexican built Fords tell me I am unpatriotic for driving my Ford-engined Flat Rock Michigan-built Mazda 6.

I have to agree, though, foreign competition is a good thing. I would love it if Izmash were to make a Win'97. And I have to wonder why anyone would buy a $240 'Rinco 870 when you can get the real thing for not much more or even less.

All that being said, I don't buy Chinese guns, I just don't like 'em. I am all for Russian, Czech and Yugo firearms, though.

Yeah, I am aware of all that ownership stuff. Webs of ownership can sure make arguments brittle . Unfortunately, we don't see any of the French cars, and don't see many of the British and Italian manufacturers here, so it's hard to say how they'd fare on American roads. The British press does give Renaults and Peugots favorable reviews pretty regularly. It's really a mixed bag--I've seen Fords with very high ratings (Focus, Mondeo). Supposedly, the auto maker that's in the best shape right now is the Nissan-Renault partnership. And jeez, there sure aren't many mainstream auto makers that haven't been gobbled up by a bigger fish. At least in the gun world we've got a lot more real choices.

 

[ghost squire]

The USSR fell largely because it couldn't keep up with the rising expectations of a middle class. My personal opinion is the more China develops economically, the less they will be able to stop the move to capitalism and a capitalist society.

China is making an excellent transition to capitalism, and unlike the FSU, when it switches from communism to capitalism, it will only be a powerful ex-communist country.

I don't believe it will significantly weaken it. Wheras Russia was bankrupt when it switched over, China is only getting richer and more powerful.