This should get your blood boiling...

[W.E.G.]

There is much stupid in the world.

Call it out when you see it.

 

[marksman13]

Your opinion.

It’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. Market hunting nearly killed it. Trophy hunting brought it back. Subsistence hunting just well…subsisted…

 

[bearcreek]

And in what state in the US can you legally shoot a trophy animal that is considered edible and leave the meat to rot?

Every single state in the US requires the meat to be recovered.

There are quite a few actually that do not require meat recovery from non ungulates. Here in Idaho, hunters are not required to recover meat from bears, cougars or wolves (all edible). That's big game. For "fur bearers" there is no meat recovery requirement.

 

[rust collector]

These days, anything involving animals has a big emotional, visceral aspect. Some folks use dogs for deer, some bait game animals, some hunt hogs from helos, others shoot caribou crossing rivers. It is easy to criticize, especially if we make no attempt to understand the factors at work in these different approaches.

Big game management, for example, does not work intuitively. Much as we would like to have many animals on tap for our viewing or hunting enjoyment, at some point disease, starvation, predation and collision reduce the numbers, often dramatically. In Africa, big game animals are a natural resource that generates income that goes to feed families, just as iron ore, coal, lithium and forests helped industrial nations to develop. Nothing is as simple as it seems, and the Walt Disney empire did not change that.

 

[H&Hhunter]

There are quite a few actually that do not require meat recovery from non ungulates. Here in Idaho, hunters are not required to recover meat from bears, cougars or wolves (all edible). That's big game. For "fur bearers" there is no meat recovery requirement.

Point taken.. I was referring to generally accepted “meat” animals. As you said ungulates. And of course hunting bears and wolves is done for scientific management purposes. Which is exactly what Teddy and the boys had in mind when they created the Boone and Crocket club. We only kill what betters the health of the herd and it is to be done in a regulated and scientifically managed way.

 

[Choctaw]

Trophy hunting in Africa puts millions of dollars into the local economies and food on the table of those who desperately need it. Yeah, that's simply awful.

 

[bearcreek]

And of course hunting bears and wolves is done for scientific management purposes.

Around here bears and lions are probably closest to being hunted predominantly for "sport" to the exclusion of meat. Don't know if it's most, but certainly many hunters of those animals do not save the meat. Some do though. I have yet to try it but I know more folks who prefer lion meat than ones who prefer bear. Wolves are hunted or trapped for their fur, but almost everyone will shoot one, given the opportunity, because it's a significant competitor for the ungulates we're hunting. Killing members of competitive species is also a long standing (as in many thousands of years) tradition for hunters.

I think that hunters sometimes do themselves a disservice when they constantly emphasize that we save the meat. We should, in many cases, don't get me wrong, but there's a bit a a sentiment you'll encounter on occasion that if the meat is not being used, the animal should not be hunted, period. That isn't always the case, IMO. I've not killed one yet, but when I get a wolf, I might try a bit of the meat, just to say I have, but I really don't intend to eat it all. Same with a raccoon, weasel, coyote, martin, etc. etc. It's more nuanced than just "we use the meat, so it's ok". It's sort of odd really, when you think about it, that so many people are fine with using the meat but throwing away a perfectly good hide, but have a problem with folks keeping a hide but throwing away meat.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I’ve eaten black bear and Mt Lion. Lion honestly reminds me of pork, just be sure if you’re going to eat a predator to cook the meat well done because they carry trichinosis. There are cooking guidelines for trichinosis prevention that can be looked up.

 

[Kevinq6]

No one who had any idea how the average poor person lives in most places would even consider this as a legitimate question. Only a very liberal person in a comfortable western country would even be able to come up with this.

 

[codytrucker]

Trophy hunting is a form of hunting for sport in which parts of the hunted wild animals are kept and displayed as trophies. The animal being targeted, known as the "game", is typically a mature male specimen from a popular species of collectible interests, usually of large sizes, holding impressive horns, antlers, furs or manes. Most trophies consist of only select parts of the animal, which are prepared for display by a taxidermist. The parts most commonly kept vary by species, but often include head, hide tusks, horns, or antlers.

Trophies are often displayed in trophy rooms or game rooms, or by gun rooms along with the hunter's gun collection.

Read my comment above . There is no either /or . It is illegal in every state , and unheard of in Africa to leave meat in the field .

 

[H&Hhunter]

The 7 pillars that define the modern North American model of game management.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...

cpw.state.co.us

 

[codytrucker]

I’ve eaten black bear and Mt Lion. Lion honestly reminds me of pork, just be sure if you’re going to eat a predator to cook the meat well done because they carry trichinosis. There are cooking guidelines for trichinosis prevention that can be looked up.

I think mountain lion is one of the best game meats , Tasty and lean . The pioneers and mountain men never turned down a chance for a lion , lynx or bobcat because it was so much like pork . Remember , before refrigeration pork was a huge part of our diets because a beef was to much meat to handle before it spoiled .

 

[bearcreek]

Read my comment above . There is no either /or . It is illegal in every state , and unheard of in Africa to leave meat in the field .

For sake of full transparency, we should clarify that it's illegal in every state to leave meat from ungulates in the field (other than neck and rib meat, typically). In many (perhaps most?) states, you are not required to salvage meat from non ungulates. I'm not positive but I don't think it's unheard of to leave meat from African predators in the field.

 

[codytrucker]

For sake of full transparency, we should clarify that it's illegal in every state to leave meat from ungulates in the field (other than neck and rib meat, typically). In many (perhaps most?) states, you are not required to salvage meat from non ungulates. I'm not positive but I don't think it's unheard of to leave meat from African predators in the field.

I think Wyoming ,Utah , Nevada and Idaho are the only states you don't have to harvest bear and cougar meat from .And in Alaska you don't have to take the meat from coastal brown/grizzly's because they eat so much fish it is considered inedible . I can't see there ever being a law to eat canines , and I don't think that's something I would want to do , even though I know there are cultures where that is considered good meat .

African's will eat almost anything except hyenas , baboons and vervet monkeys , some cultural differences notwithstanding .And unless you are very , very deep in the bush all of the animals are taken whole to be processed for meat and trophy .

 

[bearcreek]

I think Wyoming ,Utah , Nevada and Idaho are the only states you don't have to harvest bear and cougar meat from .And in Alaska you don't have to take the meat from coastal brown/grizzly's because they eat so much fish it is considered inedible . I can't see there ever being a law to eat canines , and I don't think that's something I would want to do , even though I know there are cultures where that is considered good meat .

Could be. My hunting experience is limited to Ohio and Idaho. Point is though, there are plenty of animals that a person can hunt and/or trap from which they are not required by law to save the meat.

African's will eat almost anything except hyenas , baboons and vervet monkeys , some cultural differences notwithstanding .

That depends. Africa, in general, (it's a really big place, so it's tough to generalize, even though it's popular to do so) is increasingly Muslim, which means things like pigs, any sort of predator, zebra's, hippos, elephants etc. etc. are out.

 

[codytrucker]

Could be. My hunting experience is limited to Ohio and Idaho. Point is though, there are plenty of animals that a person can hunt and/or trap from which they are not required by law to save the meat.

That depends. Africa, in general, (it's a really big place, so it's tough to generalize, even though it's popular to do so) is increasingly Muslim, which means things like pigs, any sort of predator, zebra's, hippos, elephants etc. etc. are out.

There are exceptions to every rule . Trapping and varmint hunting are not trophy hunting though . The Muslim populations of Africa are mainly in the northern regions , and while they won't touch pork , most of them in rural Africa won't turn down protein . In the southern country's game meat is a marketable commodity and what isn't used in camp or at a ranch , is sold to butchers and markets for resale . The Boers make some delicious sausages , and meat on the braai is some of the best grilled meat ever!

 

[H&Hhunter]

I don’t care for Zebra meat, that yellow fat doesn’t agree with me. I think I’ve eaten a bit of just about everything else that I’ve taken over there to include Cape buffalo, elephant (heart and trunk) and giraffe. I’ve shot buff in Tanzania and Zimbabwe and elephant in Zimbabwe. I’ve also helped process them in the field and transport them out to truck or boat. They were not left to rot, in fact on my elephant a whole village showed up with pangas and axe. There was nothing left but a gut pile and a skull within about 2 hours. Every ounce of meat and skin was taken for food and the skin made into leather for different uses. Same with the buff and everything else I’ve ever shot over there.

The only time critters are left to rot is when poachers kill them. Which of course is what happens after trophy hunting is stopped in an area. The poachers move in and kill everything. Funds from trophy hunting is the only activity that effectively prevents poachers from moving in.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I don’t care for Zebra meat, that yellow fat doesn’t agree with me. I think I’ve eaten a bit of just about everything else that I’ve taken over there to include Cape buffalo, elephant (heart and trunk) and giraffe. I’ve shot buff in Tanzania and Zimbabwe and elephant in Zimbabwe. I’ve also helped process them in the field and transport them out to truck or boat. They were not left to rot, in fact on my elephant a whole village showed up with pangas and axe. There was nothing left but a gut pile and a skull within about 2 hours. Every ounce of meat and skin was taken for food and the skin made into leather for different uses. Same with the buff and everything else I’ve ever shot over there.

The only time critters are left to rot is when poachers kill them. Which of course is what happens after trophy hunting is stopped in an area. The poachers move in and kill everything. Funds from trophy hunting is the only activity that effectively prevents poachers from moving in.

Just curious, can you describe the giraffe meat?

 

[H&Hhunter]

Just curious, can you describe the giraffe meat?

The bull that I tried was an old bull that needed to be culled. He was past breeding age yet was fighting off smaller breeding age bulls.
So I can’t say for sure what a prime meat bull or cow would taste like. The giraffe meat I tried was very dark red and dense. The meat was tough and it had just a hint of gamey smell and flavor. I’d compare it to really tough aged grass fed beef with just a hint of old buck deer gamey flavor.

 

[Offhand McFlan]

Social engineering at its not-so-finest. However, I don't really support trophy hunting, although I think hunting for food and materials is something humans should NEVER lose our instincts and skills for. We should do it...but for THESE reasons...even when we don't need to.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Personally, trophy hunting is BS. I grew up in a semi-subsistence lifestyle and was taught to hunt for food not something to put on a wall. Killing animals just for sport has outlived it time other than killing them because they cause damage or are a danger. Yes, a bunch of you will be haters of this so prove me wrong!

I have deer on my property almost everyday.





No danger to me and cause minimal damage. I used to hunt deer and birds years ago. I just don't see anyone paying to hunt. I've never needed to do that so seems foreign to me. In my youth we subsistence hunted. I no longer need to do that, especially paying the cost.

Sport hunting is dying a slow death. Annual state game licenses will prove my point.

 

[old lady new shooter]

The bull that I tried was an old bull that needed to be culled. He was past breeding age yet was fighting off smaller breeding age bulls.
So I can’t say for sure what a prime meat bull or cow would taste like. The giraffe meat I tried was very dark red and dense. The meat was tough and it had just a hint of gamey smell and flavor. I’d compare it to really tough aged grass fed beef with just a hint of old buck deer gamey flavor.

Thanks.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I have deer on my property almost everyday.





No danger to me and cause minimal damage. I used to hunt deer and birds years ago. I just don't see anyone paying to hunt. I've never needed to do that so seems foreign to me. In my youth we subsistence hunted. I no longer need to do that, especially paying the cost.

Sport hunting is dying a slow death. Annual state game licenses will prove my point.

Are you conflating paid or guided hunts with trophy hunting or sport hunting?

The cost of a deer tag on public land is the same if you shoot a smaller young buck or an ancient bruiser.

I know plenty of people who pay a guide or a fee to hunt does or cows on private land too.

Here’s a PSA, if you paid for a hunting license and you hunted by definition you are sport hunting. You can call it whatever you want but you have participated in the sport of hunting. Whether you are purely hunting for meat or are being selective and trying to put a head on the wall.

If “sport” hunting does die off and license fees and taxes from the Pittman act go away you’ll very soon find that wildlife will disappear.

I find it strange that anybody would want to support the destruction of wildlife.

 

[buck460XVR]

Sport hunting is dying a slow death. Annual state game licenses will prove my point.

There are a multitude of reasons that the sale of annual state game licenses are declining. But believe me, we will never see Sport hunting die in the foreseeable future.

In my youth we subsistence hunted. I no longer need to do that, especially paying the cost

......^^^ and this is one of those reasons. Nobody in the lower 48 needs to hunt anymore in order to not stave to death. If one can afford the cost of a license and the equipment needed to hunt, for the most part, they can afford to buy food that is much more easily acquired. Hunting for many is a gamble. You pays your money and hope you go home with something. Go to the store with the same monies and you have a 100% success rate. Then there are food pantries, and food stamps. Free hot lunches at school for your kids. Anymore, while most responsible sport hunters eat what they shoot from edible game, the meat is just a bonus and the net price per pound is higher than buying whole beef tenderloins at the local grocery store. It's just simple economics.

The biggest reason given nowadays why folks are either leaving the hunting fold or not entering it at all, is access to good hunting land. While there is plentiful public lands in some areas where success can be had if you hunt hard, that is not the norm for most of the country. Where at one time, access to private property to hunt was easy and trespass laws were lax, that's far from the norm now. This is especially true here in the mid-west, where the majority of prime hunting land is privately owned. If you don't own it, are not related to who owns it, or are not a good friend of who owns it, you ain't gonna get to hunt it. What public land there is, is limited and is hunted hard. Thus, the odds of anything trophy size, is minuscule at best. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as "catch and release" when it comes to deer hunting, like there is in fishing. Again, simple economics. Why pay the cost for hunting for recreation, when the odds of success are not in your favor. That money is spent on other recreation instead. The price of good hunting land has escalated to the point of being ridiculous. Folks spend thousands of dollars a year to improve the habitat on that property(me included) to shoot one or two deer, who's meat value doesn't come close to covering. The continued demand for hunting land and the escalation of products intended solely for habitat improvement(food plot seed, food plot implements, Food plot advisory companies, permanent hunting blinds, etc) shows that sport hunting is going to be around for a long time. While not available to as many folk, it is still being enjoyed by a following that is not going away.

No danger to me and cause minimal damage.

You are lucky. Here in the mid-west, deer damage takes a big bite out of most every farmer's profit. Doesn't matter if it's the dairy/beef farmer growing crops for his herd, the cranberry grower, the guy growing strawberries for the farmer's market, or the local apple orchard. Even the suburbanite/country dweller trying to grow landscape trees/shrubs. Ask any auto insurance guy what to list their major payouts for car damage is and they will tell you car/deer collisions is way up there, and number one in the fall. The herd needs to be controlled and Sport hunting is the only real viable way we know........and it helps considerably, that folks pay to do it, instead of the state paying to have it done. This is not going away either.

 

[Mosin77]

There are a multitude of reasons that the sale of annual state game licenses are declining. But believe me, we will never see Sport hunting die in the foreseeable future.


......^^^ and this is one of those reasons. Nobody in the lower 48 needs to hunt anymore in order to not stave to death. If one can afford the cost of a license and the equipment needed to hunt, for the most part, they can afford to buy food that is much more easily acquired. Hunting for many is a gamble. You pays your money and hope you go home with something. Go to the store with the same monies and you have a 100% success rate. Then there are food pantries, and food stamps. Free hot lunches at school for your kids. Anymore, while most responsible sport hunters eat what they shoot from edible game, the meat is just a bonus and the net price per pound is higher than buying whole beef tenderloins at the local grocery store. It's just simple economics.

The biggest reason given nowadays why folks are either leaving the hunting fold or not entering it at all, is access to good hunting land. While there is plentiful public lands in some areas where success can be had if you hunt hard, that is not the norm for most of the country. Where at one time, access to private property to hunt was easy and trespass laws were lax, that's far from the norm now. This is especially true here in the mid-west, where the majority of prime hunting land is privately owned. If you don't own it, are not related to who owns it, or are not a good friend of who owns it, you ain't gonna get to hunt it. What public land there is, is limited and is hunted hard. Thus, the odds of anything trophy size, is minuscule at best. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as "catch and release" when it comes to deer hunting, like there is in fishing. Again, simple economics. Why pay the cost for hunting for recreation, when the odds of success are not in your favor. That money is spent on other recreation instead. The price of good hunting land has escalated to the point of being ridiculous. Folks spend thousands of dollars a year to improve the habitat on that property(me included) to shoot one or two deer, who's meat value doesn't come close to covering. The continued demand for hunting land and the escalation of products intended solely for habitat improvement(food plot seed, food plot implements, Food plot advisory companies, permanent hunting blinds, etc) shows that sport hunting is going to be around for a long time. While not available to as many folk, it is still being enjoyed by a following that is not going away.



You are lucky. Here in the mid-west, deer damage takes a big bite out of most every farmer's profit. Doesn't matter if it's the dairy/beef farmer growing crops for his herd, the cranberry grower, the guy growing strawberries for the farmer's market, or the local apple orchard. Even the suburbanite/country dweller trying to grow landscape trees/shrubs. Ask any auto insurance guy what to list their major payouts for car damage is and they will tell you car/deer collisions is way up there, and number one in the fall. The herd needs to be controlled and Sport hunting is the only real viable way we know........and it helps considerably, that folks pay to do it, instead of the state paying to have it done. This is not going away either.

100% this. Deer are closer to a pest than an endangered species in the U.S. these days. Without the seasons, licensing, and tags which “sport” or “trophy” hunters participate in, they would have been extinct in the early 20th century, and (if that somehow didn’t happen) would require serious eradication efforts now. The truth is far from the media stereotype (that all hunters are mouth-breathing uneducated fools who just want to satisfy their bloodlust and hang antlers on a wall.)

I do also agree that lack of access to land is the biggest thing. Statistically very few percent of Americans grow up on a family-owned farm these days, or have friends and neighbors who have such property. If I want to go deer hunting I can coordinate with a coworker who is an avid hunter and owns a property suitable for it… but most people aren’t him, or even me. It’s a sobering reality that hunting is easier said than done for most. It’s also a sport that requires a lot of prep, expensive accessories, and time, so there are significant barriers to entry for everyone who didn’t grow up with 100 acres of woods or a bean field in the backyard.