This stinks!

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We no doubt do not have the full story or even the right story here,
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Then what are we talking about it for? We have to make almost all the important information up to have anything to discuss. Homeowner A shot 14 year old B who was on his property because Homeowner A says he thought a break in was about to occur.

We don't know if the homeowner shot through a window or door because the people outside were pounding on it making him think they were going to break it in.

We don't know if the homeowner went outside and shot the kid because he told the kid to clean it up and the kid taunted him.

We don't know.

But we sure gotta talk about it like we do.:banghead:
 
Sseven said:
Man a bunch of you guys must have been some pretty tame kids! No offense intended.
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I am glad you said it.

Some of you all on THR are wacko's when it comes to justifying any shooting at any time. :)

My son - who graduated magna cum laude from a very good liberal arts school and headed off for grad school in EE l on a full scholarship - was in marching band in high school. TP'ing other band member's houses was part and parcel of marching band. We got hit with the TP several times ourselves.

I guess a lot of folks on THR think I should have shot them instead of laughing about it, and getting my son up early the next morning to clean the TP out of the bushes with a rake.

I'll bet those 4 punks (and that's exactly what the little scumbags are) won't ever TP a house again.
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I guess all his band dorks buddies were "punks" and "scum bags" and should have shot - but the truth is that I know most of them, and they seem to be pretty nice kids.

Maybe I didn't know them as well as I thought, and they were really secret "punks" and "scumbags", but most of them have gone to college and morphed into reasonably responsible young adults.

I guess maybe they are "punks" and "scumbags" who are simulating reasonably responsible young adults to trick me ...

Mike
 
My property, being damaged. I am too old to spend the time cleaning up vandalism. I do not have the financial resources to hire it done. 1AM, criminal (yes CRIMINAL) activity going on. He had the right, and the obligation to protect his property. I understand that. No, I was not an angel when I was young, I caught some #8 in the haunches for stealing melons. No harm, right? Just a melon or two. Except the melon was the man's livelihood. By taking a melon, (or by causing money to be spent cleaning up TP vandalism) the man was being robbed of perhaps his next meal. Like was said earlier, we don't have all the facts, but the one fact we do have is that the young criminals were were vandalizing the mans property at 1AM. It was a good shoot, totally justified, albeit harsh for the crime. I paid my dues for my stupidity and was a better person for it, maybe the parents of these young trespassers will keep a better eye on their charges and teach them to behave, if they have not already learned that from a very harsh lesson.
The property owner had no way of knowing if the house, a brick through the window, a Molotov into the living room or worse was the next step they would take. And remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Please set me on that grand jury. This man did nothing wrong.
 
I think there's more to this story.

Several individuals around my house at 1AM? They are up to no good and they are just asking to be shot.
Whether or not I shoot will depend on how I view the situation but if they don't get shot, they will be extremely lucky.

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:.......................................
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property;................................
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My dad grew up in a different time, different country, and in a farm community, and he occasionally went hungry. He used to tell of one particular apple farm--he and a friend used to wait for a moonless night.

Problem was the farmer had a shotgun. Loaded with rock salt. A few apples isn't worth killing someone over, the thought process apparently was--but there have to be penalties. My dad had a very vivid description of the effects rock salt meeting his gluteus sitdownimus.

*Sigh!* That was then. Of course, these days, shotgun plus rock salt IS deadly force--and probably torturing and terroristic as well.

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME, KIDS.
 
Griz, is some toilet paper in your tree going to make you starve to death? How about the people who let their dogs take a dump on your lawn? You got the money to clean that up, or is it commence fire time? You never know, their next step might be to unleash their chihuahua and have him attack the azaleas.
 
The property owner had no way of knowing if the house, a brick through the window, a Molotov into the living room or worse was the next step they would take.
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I am seeing the light. I should have shot the trumpet section leader in the marching band when he and the trumpet section came to TP my house. Actually I though they did my house because my son was the saxophone section leader, and he had the sax section had TP'd the the trumpet section leader's house the previous weekend. Seemed innocent to me - guess I was hoodwinked.

Yesterday the kids across the street were playing kickball in the street, and they kicked the ball into my yard. I probably should have shot them - even though they seem like pretty nice kids, because they might have been casing my house.

All of this does remind of a time when I was a kid and our house got TP's by mistake - the actual target was a high school girl who lived next door. She and group of her girlfriends came over the next day and said they were the likely targets, and helped us clean up. My dad was annoyed, but somehow he thought it was just high school kids in high spirits, and nobody needed shooting.

If you're going to shoot high school kids for TP'ing your house, who do you not shoot?

Mike
 
We don't know if the homeowner went outside and shot the kid because he told the kid to clean it up and the kid taunted him.
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And that would be a justified shoot. They added that to the CCW classes in NC recently - taunting is more or less considered to be a deadly threat anymore.

Mike
 
I'll bet the leader of the trumpet section was not at a strangers house at 1AM? Don't compare an apple to a banana. Your argument holds no merit. I never said he took the best or most logical action, and I would probably have not taken the shot(s?) myself. Simply stated, he had the right to defend against criminal elements, which he did. You were not there, neither was I. The EXACT situation is unknown to us. However, he did have the right to defend. If you let your 14 year old kid run loose at 1AM, then you are the guilty party for the kid getting shot.

On a second note, I actually DROVE my kids to do a TP job on a fellow students house (more than once). Ours is a close knit and very stable neighborhood where we all look out for each other and all of the kids grew up together here. I did however, call ahead and let the targeted household parents know we were coming. No sense in getting anyone shot right? I always had my kids go over there the next morning to help clean up. Breakfast at IHOP was always in good order for both vicyum and perp. All in good fun. Destructive mischief on a stranger (and a hostile one at that) is not all in good fun. Your situation was probably close to the same as ours, a friends house, fellow band member, football player, kids BF or GF and families you know.
That is obviously not even close to what happened in this case.
 
What no one has mentioned yet and he should be worried about even if the DA chooses not to pursue him is a CIVIL SUIT.
 
Quote:
"I'm new here, but it sounds like it was likely a reasonable reaction to an incursion on one's home."



How do you shoot a kid for T.P.'n your stupid tree...??? I wouldn't even turn my Rotty loose on someone for that...Too many of you scared/trigger happy folks out there...Now,try to come in, and you'll get to know my dog way better than you want to, and you'll probably get shot, too...but don't shoot someone for littering on your pet squirrels condo...come on guys...!!! :confused:
 
Bad shot for now

I say bad shot, for now, we dont yet know all the facts of the incedent, but shooting someone 3 times because you THINK they are about to break into your house? Utter nonsense, he should've called the police and bunkered down. But as soon as one of these kids had broken down the door/shattered a window and began to enter, they are fair game. Deadly force is not justified in ALL situations just because its happeneing on YOUR property.
 
Wow, lots of folks eager to "defend themselves" here. I wouldn't consider shooting unless I felt my life was in danger. I'm not biologically connected to my shrubbery or my roof. I seriously doubt some toilet paper is going to harm them either. I've never heard of assault with a deadly roll of bath tissue.

Its apparent that a lot of the old curmudgeons around here don't remember what its like to be a dumb teenager. I was one within the last decade. We routinely did some dumb stuff without thinking of any of the consequences. Some of it may have been illegal, but none of it permanently damaged any property, only caused some inconvenience. A group of us got thrown out of Boy Scout summer camp for pulling a prank. It didn't hurt anyone, but it inconvenienced the staff to the point of sending us home. Four of the five scouts involved are now Eagle Scouts, five are college graduates with good jobs, and two are active duty military officers.
I guess all of us should have been lined up on the rifle range and dispatched by firing squad. I'm glad the adults in charge of us knew the difference between a prank and a threat to life.

On a lighter note, these kids must have been especially dumb because they got caught. With the one exception noted above, my group of merry men and I were never held accountable for our mischief. We pulled some big stuff (The Camporee Flag Heist of 2000, The Easter Egg Avalanche of 2002, and many others) and no one could ever prove it was us, even if we were suspected. These kids, being dumb as they are, deserve a good scare from a racking 12ga, or a ride home in the back of a blue and white, not gunshot wounds.
 
First: lol. Yes I find it mildly amusing in a sick way. Not going to lie about it either.

Second: Are you serious? Are people really that horrible of people that they are going to shoot a 14 year old kid wrapping a house? That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard of. This is an act of.... I don't have the words. 3 shots with a shotgun? At the very WORST he should have fired a round into the dirt. Vile misuse of a weapon meant to defend your life or hunt with.

I had a similar incident at my house, I opened fire on the kids (then my age) with a painball gun (Autococker STO) and aimed at their legs and butt. Never got wrapped again. The man went overboard and should be punished. I hope he feels miserable and hope the kid survives. I feel bad for him, but this is why you don't do stupid **** like that.
 
Overkill.. thankfully not killed

I'll bet those 4 punks (and that's exactly what the little scumbags are) won't ever TP a house again. The one that got shot didn't die - maybe he'll take something away from the experience besides some lead shot.

That said: The homeowner went overboard. What ever was happening was happening outside his home not in it. Castle Doctrine doesn't apply. He should have gone back into his house and called the cops.

I hope the stupid :fire: gets charged with assault with a deadly weapon and does a little hard time.
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+2

A bridge to far IMO


Ls
 
He saw a group of people on his property and reportedly believed that they were breaking in. Maybe their actions at the time warranted the shots? None of us know and quite of a few of you are awfully quick to condemn a man when you have so few facts at hand.
 
He saw a group of people on his property and reportedly believed that they were breaking in.
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I didn't realize most bad guys these days carried around white rolls of TP for break-ins.

quite of a few of you are awfully quick to condemn a man when you have so few facts at hand.
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The same can be said for those who are so quick to claim it to be a good shoot. There isn't enough info to support either way.
 
He saw a group of people on his property and reportedly believed that they were breaking in.
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I guess what give me pause is the number of threads on THR where people are arguing that because the shooter didn't understand what was going, it's righteous shoot.

It seems to me that when I was growing up, the argument was that

  • If you know that your (or someone else's) life is in danger, you had the right (and in some cases the duty) to shoot.
Somehow that changed over the years to

  • If you do not know that your (or someone else's) life is not in danger, you have the right to shoot.

That's a pretty big switch. Maybe that some kind of liberal situational ethics - "think of how he felt." Shooting a kid who is TP'ing your house is wrong. You can gussy it up with all the victim speak want - it's wrong.

I don't buy into that whole situational ethics nonsense - particularly when it come to the use of lethal force. Some thing are right and some things are wrong. You can dress it up with all the words and hypotheticals you want, that does not change right and wrong.

Mike
 
I agree with Mike. It seems people just want to shoot first and ask questions later. If your life is in danger, okay, if you are not sure that you or someone else is going to die or be hurt... I don't call that the act of a sheep dog. I call that the act of a coward. Your opinion seems to be, I don't like it, so I will get rid of it, instead of trying to understand it first, then decide on the proper course of action.

Makes me wonder what kind of a world I live in where people are so scared of their own shadow that they consider anyone who steps on their property passed dark an enemy.
 
For those of you recommending rock salt know this, beyond 12 yards your victim probably won't even notice, at 12' the shot cup will do more damage than the salt, at 4' it will burn like the dickens and in the right spot against bare skin will cause a nasty wound. Salt not very good on the barrel either.

I'm probably older than most on this forum and I do remember doing things I'm not proud of today but stealing more than a melon or a few apples just wasn't done and neither was senseless vandalism. Old feller thought somebody was breaking into his shed, he was protecting his property. We don't know what he saw or if he was able to recognize or see well enough. I would have wanted a high pressure fire hose to use on the kid but the guy did what he could with what he had.

Just a minor question here, Why were they wanting to TP his house and does anybody know they were actually doing that. For all we know they may have been actually breaking into the guys shed. He might not have much income or have a lot of resources so he tends to take care of what he has. Be thankful he was using #8 and not buckshot or slugs.
 
What shed? There is no shed. Sounds like they were actually trying to roll the house. A nice goal, I tried it once. Didn't work so well. You need really strong TP to do that.

Maybe they knew the guy. Maybe not. There just isn't enough info.
 
I take pride in the way my property is kept. I like it clean and looking nice. Although I wouldn't shoot anyone attempting to vandalize it I will defend it with whatever means necessary.
This punk didn't deserve to be shot but he also shouldn't have been out vandalizing anyone elses property. There is culpability on both sides. I don't know what was in the homeowners thoughts when he fired but I do know what was in the kids thoughts. That was to destroy someone elses property. He got more than he deserved but he brought it on himself. The sad part is the justice system will treat him as a innocent victim when it started out as the perpetrator. A sad day for all sides:(
 
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