This would be a good time for a CCW'r with a gun

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usmarine0352_2005

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If your in a car or some mode of transportation your safest bet is to drive away as fast and safely as you can.


If you are like this guy and close enough to make your shots count your CCW permit and gun could come into positive use.



And I would suggest not attempting to "distract" any gunman whether you have a gun or not.




http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/10/us/california-hollywood-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1





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Gunman identified in Hollywood shooting

By the CNN Wire Staff

updated 7:34 PM EST, Sat December 10, 2011


Christopher Johns filmed much of the five-minute scene from his apartment window and can be heard shouting at Brehm throughout.

"Why don't you come up here?" he yelled, later describing that he intended to distract the gunman.
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I don't think getting in a gun fight is a good time for anyone.
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No disrespect, but do you think the point of CCW is then?




Only when the bad guy has a knife or isn't threatening anyone?


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No disrespect, but do you think the point of CCW is then?
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Last resort, when there is no alternative, and hopefully when the mere presentation of a weapon diffuses the situation.
 
Besides it being in California, if you had a rifle, could you shoot someone like this from your window legally?
 
I could shoot someone out a window with a rifle. I'm sure a lot of people on this forum could. Could they do it without getting tagged with a crime? I know that's really what your question is. I would think it would be justified -- He was shooting people. He also had video of it. I think he did a fine job distracting the guy though. Who knows, without that he might've killed some people.
 
Yeah... I have to agree
This one time on MSR Tampa I mistook a guy jumping out of a Cab ( Tractor Trailer Truck ) to me it looked like he was throwing a frag, and out of pure instinct I slightly turned the wheel to run his dumb ...... well, luckily for him and my hands sake ( Paper work & all ) he wasn't throwing a frag and I had time to avert the situation.

Can you imagine getting hit with a 24 Ton MRAP at 45 miles and hour. Not to mention at face level was my Tow Bar.
 
Having a CCW does NOT make you law enforcement. I keep seeing this cheesy, dangerous mentality among a few CCW'ers. My CCW is a for a LAST DITCH effort to stay alive. It is there only to protect myself and my immediate family. Yes, situations like this happen unfortunately, but, unlike LEO, I do not have backup. I will not carry out vigilante missions hoping to bring justice to the world just because I have a CCW. I will not put myself in harms way to try and be a hero. Instead, I will do what I have to do so that I can stay alive. YMMV.
 
As I do have a CCW ( 20+ years now ) in this situation I would never have drawn My weapon driving past this lunatic, but I damn sure would have crounched down and swerved for Him and floored the gas on My S-10, My mistake ofcourse would be backing up and running him over again as I'm sure by that point I would have anger issues ! LOL ! Billions of humans on this planet and I have to share it with them, there is going Nutjobs A' Plenty, so this doesn't surprise Me. Especially at Holywood and Vine in La La Land ! The Guy in the Tower hanging out the window, while having good intentions and may have saved lives, forgot the #1 rule of self defense, that being self defense !
Worst part about this is it's not been seen as that big a deal and We are desensitized to the fact that it is just a lead on a L.A. station and on with the next thing . I'm sure writers at Law & Order are drafting ideas as I type.......WVleo
 
Using a weapon in self defense and defense of others when in immanent danger of death may legally defensible, but it may not always be the safest course of action compared to withdrawing.

When we're out of options, fighting for our life with everything we have with and within us is needed, but bluster and posturing and bravado seems pretty shallow poking at a keyboard.
 
I don't think getting in a gun fight is a good time for anyone.
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No disrespect, but do you think the point of CCW is then?
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The point of CCW is to have a good time in gun fights? I am pretty certain that the purpose of a CCW wasn't ever supposed to be for having a good time and it isn't for the purpose of getting into a gun fight. If anything, it would be for the purpose of getting me out of the gun fight.
 
The point of CCW is to have a good time in gun fights? I am pretty certain that the purpose of a CCW wasn't ever supposed to be for having a good time and it isn't for the purpose of getting into a gun fight. If anything, it would be for the purpose of getting me out of the gun fight.
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I think most people are saying in this scenario the car is a more viable defensive tool vs your CCW.

I'm not sure I like my chances from a moving car while driving with the windows up vs just running the joker over.
 
No disrespect, but do you think the point of CCW is then?


Only when the bad guy has a knife or isn't threatening anyone?



I think your question has been answered.
 
General Geoff said:
Bingo. 3500lb car almost always beats handgun.
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While I agree, I don't think that those people driving knew that he was shooting at other cars driving by... or they probably wouldn't have driven past him. If it was me and I realized he was shooting at me, I would probably just floor it the heck out of there. It looks like he waited until the cars were pretty close before presenting the gun.

Now, I don't know the legality of shooting the guy from the window... but my first thoughts are that it would be justified, but who knows how things may get twisted... especially in a particularly anti-gun state.
 
hso said:
Using a weapon in self defense and defense of others when in imminent danger of death may legally defensible, but it may not always be the safest course of action compared to withdrawing.

When we're out of options, fighting for our life with everything we have with and within us is needed, but bluster and posturing and bravado seems pretty shallow poking at a keyboard.
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I think about this quite often, and I consider the possible results of both courses of action.

I see a LOT of people that advise AGAINST helping others make it through their own life/death situations.

Obviously using a gun is a last resort, and avoiding the situation is ideal... I don't dispute this point. That being said, if I happen to be walking to the store with my kids this afternoon and I see some of the local slimeballs stomping the life out of someone's grandmother or grandfather, I'm going to do what I think is prudent IN THAT SITUATION, whether it be calling the cops and being a good witness or drawing my pistol and intervening (or any number of other possibilities). What I'm saying is this: If a person can safely help another person, it's my belief that they should. Would you want someone to intervene if your mother/sister/son/cousin were being robbed, beaten or worse?

Sure, I know my CWL doesn't give me "magic crimefighting powers", but if I find myself in a situation where I can save a person's life by using my pistol to prevent or halt the commission of a forcible felony then I'll do what I feel is right based on my judgment at that time.

The CWL isn't a "vigilante de-facto cop" card, but just because it's not you or your immediate family being victimized doesn't mean you shouldn't help if you can.

*Edit to add: I'm not saying there aren't instances where I wouldn't simply withdraw (there are a lot of situations that warrant that even at the cost of the life of another)
 
Regarding a rifle shot from a window: I wouldn't likely take the shot. I don't think I'd be confident enough regarding where the bullet would end up in the event of a miss or through penetration in that environment, and from that angle. Not to mention, I have no illusions about my ability to reliably hit a moving target under stress, from a downward angle.

If I was at ground level on foot, I'd still try to avoid taking a shot because it's a populated area. Even if it's a legitimate defensive shooting, I wouldn't want to be responsible for hurting a bystander. The police have protections for that situation that civilians don't. I think it'd be impossible to get close enough to the guy to be 100% certain of a clean hit with him standing in the middle of the road. On ground level on foot, I think the effort would be better spent a) finding cover, and b) encouraging other bystanders who may not know better to find cover.

If I was in a vehicle, say following someone the guy just took a shot at, I'd make a good effort to run him over. I suppose I could take the turn at the intersection, or stop and back up, but both of those situations would still be in his line of fire, so forward through the ambush would make sense. Running him over if possible, and getting out of the ambush zone as quickly as possible in any event.
 
The situation would have been a great time for a competent CC guy. Unfortunately, due to stupid laws, nobody could protect themselves. Thus, they had to wait for a police officer to show up. I am confident that if any other person on the scene there had a gun on them, then they would have used it.

_____

I find it a bit vexing that there is sentiment in the gun community that some CC people are vigilantes looking for a fight. It reminds me way too much of how the people around me IRL view carry. To quote my English teacher (I swear I didn't bring up the topic or say anything explicit that might be interpreted as not anti-gun, I mean threatening) "If you've got a concealed carry license, you're walking around with a weapon. Why would you do that unless you're out to get someone?" I did respond with: "Concealed Carry requirements are pretty strict; clean criminal record and often they come with training requirements. It takes some time, effort, and money to get one, so the last thing you'd want to do with any investment is waste it on a whim. Carry permit holders are the most law-abiding group of people in the country, not to mention that getting such a license in Maryland is nearly impossible."
 
Scarey thing is, I drive thru this intersection regularly. I have a CCW, and I don't know what I would have done. It's nice to say one would pull over and end the situation, but that would place you in greater danger.

Much as I'd like to be the one to stop him, I have a family to think of. Dead hero's don't do much for a families future.

Now, had I been in the apartment with the rather brave, and yes, foolish young man who shot the video and taunted the gunman with anyone of my rifles, it would have been over rather quickly. But sadly, I'd probably have been arrested myself.

LA cops take a dim view of folks protecting themselves, much less stopping an "active shooter". Seems we just aren't properly "trained". On the other hand, I used to shoot weekly at an LAPD range, and with some officers, the only safe place was the target.

Hmm, seems like Uncle Sam taught me right well how to shoot someone who was shooting at me. But that was long ago, so maybe I'd have to have some "official" retraining before I'd be "qualified" to end the shooters rampage.
 
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Scarey thing is, I drive thru this intersection regularly. I have a CCW, and I don't know what I would have done. It's nice to say one would pull over and end the situation, but that would place you in greater danger.

Much as I'd like to be the one to stop him, I have a family to think of. Dead hero's don't do much for a families future.

Now, had I been in the apartment with the rather brave, and yes, foolish young man who shot the video and taunted the gunman with anyone of my rifles, it would have been over rather quickly. But sadly, I'd probably have been arrested myself.

LA cops take a dim view of folks protecting themselves, much less stopping an "active shooter". Seems we just aren't properly "trained". On the other hand, I used to shoot weekly at an LAPD range, and with some officers, the only safe place was the target.

Hmm, seems like Uncle Sam taught me right well how to shoot someone who was shooting at me. But that was long ago, so maybe I'd have to have some "official" retraining before I'd be "qualified" to end the shooters rampage.
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kinda off topic but how did you acquire a CCW in socal?
 
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