Those military surplus days. Top 3?

[Remington1911]

Absolute truths here, but there's also some nuances in the breakdown. For me anyway. There are roughly three levels to my own hand/reloading efforts.

First string are 'volume' handgun cartridges: .45 ACP, .38 Special, .32 H&R and 9x19. I handle these with a Lee progressive loading press with preset turrets that I can just drop in and rock on. I have just one or two standard loads and make an effort at economy with these rounds, aiming for around .20/round (more like .25 lately). .44 Magnum is also a fairly high volume cartridge for me, but I use a single stage for better resizing leverage.

Then there are the 'occasional' cartridges. Reasonably contemporary stuff like .22 K Hornet, .308 Win., .270 Win., 30-06, .300 AAC. If I still had opportunity for hunting, these would be the first string. They see more variety in bullet selection and tend to cost more per round. I have some centerfire plinking handloads for these as well, using plated bullets and reduced loads.

And there are the 'reload or die' cartridges, that can't be had any other way. I have lots of those, mostly obsolete military cartridges like 6.5x53R Dutch, 9mm Browning Long and 7.5x23 Swiss Ordnance, plus some civilians like .32-40 and 8.15x46R. I don't even calculate the cost per round, but I usually figure on an initial investment of around $100 for dies and brass. Probably somewhere around $2-4 per round for the first loading. Often some creative caseforming saves money on the latter, but not always. This stuff usually doesn't get shot very often, so a small stockpile can really last, especially with single shot rifles.

View attachment 1110912

If I was just into handloading and shooting on more of a strict budget, I'd stick with the first two categories -- there's still a few interesting surplus rifles that would fit that bill.

However for me, shooting a box of ammo through any one classic rifle or handgun in my collection is an infrequent privilege, even though I'm usually at the range several times per month. I rotate through the collection, and these days it's reached a point where it can take me years to get back to a particular rifle and cartridge.

FWIW, I've got a friend who spends more trading Pokemon cards (seriously!) than I do on shooting, and he'll freely admit I'm having a lot more fun.

I agree with you, and really I brought it up because of the surplus nature of this thread.

If really you are shooting "modern" or widely available cartridges in the past it made little sense to reload those. Things like 9mm unless you wanted something very specific it just was not really cost effective. Now if you wanted something "special" like a very fat bullet moving very slow to knock that bowling pin off the table, well that is different.

With out of production cartridges it really is a must. But things like real low volume even before covid finding some of these things are hard and expensive. I think before covid I bought a box of 30-40 Krag for $45. And that was the only box I ever saw. I finally did get dies for that cartridge, and the costs per round have come down a great deal.

For me even when I shoot "new" stuff it is in a caliber I have for "old stuff" something as simple as a P38, normal old 9mm, but I do tend to load that light, so a bit different. The best example of "old" stuff and new stuff is 38spl. I have an old Colt Police Positive and it gets VERY light loads, they tend to have an issue with timing, Those same rounds go into a Marlin lever, and I have loads for it in 38, that are quite hot....almost 357 type hot.

I really think it depends on what you are really spending your time one. If it is the new and common stuff, I could see the reloading thing taking a long time to the even stage, On the older stuff, you can save the cost of the press in just 2 boxes.

 

[Mosin77]

I agree with you guys. The old surplus guns are where my heart lies, and I love shooting them, but it’s a lot more trouble without readily available, affordable ammo. Right now I tend to shoot more 7.62x54r and 30-06, just because that’s what’s available consistently and reasonably affordably. I reload the oddball stuff but unlike Dave I don’t get to the range that often so it becomes a question of time management. For example: I could load some 7.7 Jap but if I do, how long till I get that particular rifle to the range, and how long till I load more, to apply the lessons from that range trip? If you can’t shoot regularly load workup becomes a lot more of a burden. If I could shoot off my back porch I feel like I could come up with a couple of workable loads in a couple of days, not months/years.

I used to laugh at the guys who only shot 9mm/357/308 but now I see where they’re coming from!

 

[caribou]

SAKO made M-39 Finn Mosin

Rock'Ola M1 Carbine.

Factory 66 SKS

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

I could load some 7.7 Jap but if I do, how long till I get that particular rifle to the range, and how long till I load more, to apply the lessons from that range trip? If you can’t shoot regularly load workup becomes a lot more of a burden. If I could shoot off my back porch I feel like I could come up with a couple of workable loads in a couple of days, not months/years.

I feel your pain!

My solution, reached long ago, was to settle on a variation of Ed Harris' "The Load":

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/The Load.htm

My own version uses 21.3 grains of IMR 4198 (Lee 1.6cc dipper), but it's the same basic idea of one load for almost any 6.5-8mm battle rifle cartridge.

First and foremost (assuming the rifle is sound), it is safe and goes bang. It's reduced power, keeping velocities in a range suitable for cast and plated bullets; it nearly always provides what I like to call 'acceptable' accuracy out to a couple hundred yards. So far I've used it satisfactorily in everything from 7.35 Carano to 30-06.

The other option I frequently resort to at my local indoor range (which doesn't allow the use of full power rifle ammo) is to use a chamber sleeve with a revolver cartridge. It's more fun than you'd think.

 

[mavracer]

Garand, M1 Carbine and an 03A4
My 03A4 was modeled after a Vietnam Vet's rifle with an original Redfield mount an period correct Weaver K4 60b.
The Garand is a 52 Springfield.
The M12 is a regular 50s gun I turned trench gun.
The Carbine is a 5 digit with what I assume is the original 8-42 barrel.
The Mossberg 44USd is a commercial version.

 

[kje54]

The only surplus rifle I picked up was a Lee Enfield No4 Mrk 1 when they were first being imported in large numbers (1980s I think). Paid $60 for it, sold it many years later for around $375.

 

[Terry G]

C&R Gun prices have gone crazy. $600.00 for a Nagant revolver? $700 for a Yugoslavian 59/66?

 

[Ignition Override]

M-1 Carbines.
M-1 Garand.
Lee-Enfield no.4 and the 5 (nicknamed Jungle).

Limited to rifles for simplicity.

My very late true interest in guns Missed the better times.

Fishbed77: along with some other people, your polished appreciation for milsurp handguns along with rifles is a shining beacon.

 

[Mosin77]

I feel your pain!

My solution, reached long ago, was to settle on a variation of Ed Harris' "The Load":

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/The Load.htm

My own version uses 21.3 grains of IMR 4198 (Lee 1.6cc dipper), but it's the same basic idea of one load for almost any 6.5-8mm battle rifle cartridge.

First and foremost (assuming the rifle is sound), it is safe and goes bang. It's reduced power, keeping velocities in a range suitable for cast and plated bullets; it nearly always provides what I like to call 'acceptable' accuracy out to a couple hundred yards. So far I've used it satisfactorily in everything from 7.35 Carano to 30-06.

The other option I frequently resort to at my local indoor range (which doesn't allow the use of full power rifle ammo) is to use a chamber sleeve with a revolver cartridge. It's more fun than you'd think.

I’ve read about this before and dismissed it, but your endorsement is making me think about revisiting the idea. It does seem like a good solution for realistic shooting enjoyment of these old girls. When you’re young you think “I want the authentic service load,” when you get a little older you think “Do I really need to see just how black and blue my shoulder can get?” How would you rate the recoil in your version? Does it feel like a rifle or more like a sub caliber adapter? Also are you using lubed cast or plated/coated?

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

I’ve read about this before and dismissed it, but your endorsement is making me think about revisiting the idea. It does seem like a good solution for realistic shooting enjoyment of these old girls. When you’re young you think “I want the authentic service load,” when you get a little older you think “Do I really need to see just how black and blue my shoulder can get?” How would you rate the recoil in your version? Does it feel like a rifle or more like a sub caliber adapter? Also are you using lubed cast or plated/coated?

I estimate it somewhere around a 30-30-ish level of recoil, give or take depending on how heavy the rifle is. I suppose you could compare the recoil to an SKS, perhaps even a bit less. It still feels like a rifle, but it makes shooting something painful like the Steyr M95 Stutzen into a pleasant experience.



I've mainly used either jacketed or plated bullets; I haven't tried coated bullets with it so far, but gas-checked and lubed cast bullets haven't given me any serious leading issues.

One of the things I like about 4198 (H and IMR both) is that it is exceptionally clean-burning. I came across a reduced 4198 loading for 7.92x57 on the data card that came with my old Lee Loader way back in the early 1980s and have stayed loyal ever since.

 

[P5 Guy]

Sold a while back for a lot more than I paid.

 

[Rshooter]

M1 Garand
1903 Springfield
Indian Enfield

 

[lsudave]

Surplus rifles?
Of the ones I own, I'd say:
Yugo SKS- got it cheap, it runs well, and you can't really complain about a semiauto centerfire rifle for that price. As others have noted, it's basically the last/most modern military design that the general public can own
Ishapore 2A1- "Enfield" from the factory in 7.62 NATO. Good stuff.
Czech VZ 24- got it from my dad, who bought it for $60 with some ammo. Slick shooting and accurate.

 

[Reloadron]

A few SA Garands, a Remington 03A3 an M1 Carbine and lastly a SKS as to rifles. Handguns a pre WWI Colt 1914 manufacture Model of 1911 and a WWII 1942 1911 Remington Rand.

Ron

 

[P5 Guy]

 

[Old Hobo]

3 Mauser images

I have a WWII Czech Mauser, BRNO, that the Israelis rebarrelled to 7.62x51mm. The barrel was made by FN.

The original stock, we couldn't get all of the oil/grease out of. Friend sold me a laminated stock for it. He also turned down the bolt, drilled and tapped it for a scope, and glass bedded it. With target ammunition, it will shoot minute of angle. The scope rings are also high quality; had to use a broom handle as a lever to lock them into place. Neat, but heavy, rifle. For a lighter weight .308, I have a Tikka T3. It will shoot sub-MOA with the same ammo that the Israeli rifle likes.
------------------------------------------------

 

[CCSIG]

• VKT M39
• Eddystone Pattern 14
• Carl Gustav M96/38

Not easy picking just three!

 

[herrwalther]

I have a sporterized Eddystone M1917 coming to my FFL any day now. So right now that is my favorite milsurp. Others I want to get

Springfield 1903a3
M1 Garand
Arisaka

Apparently I have an obsession for Mauser actions lately. 2 out of 3.

 

[AlexanderA]

Back in the early 1960's, the Academy Surplus in Austin, Texas, had barrels full of Lee Enfields, Carcanos (and others) for $10-12 apiece. I convinced my dad to buy me an Enfield and a Carcano. Over the next few years, I sporterized the Enfield, and ended up giving the Carcano away to a gun shop (that's how little I thought of it). Anyway, that was the beginning of my gun collecting.

 

[mshootnit]

M1 Garand

 

[Speedo66]

Back in the early 1960's, the Academy Surplus in Austin, Texas, had barrels full of Lee Enfields, Carcanos (and others) for $10-12 apiece. I convinced my dad to buy me an Enfield and a Carcano. Over the next few years, I sporterized the Enfield, and ended up giving the Carcano away to a gun shop (that's how little I thought of it). Anyway, that was the beginning of my gun collecting.

Same at Modell's sporting goods on Broadway and Kaufman Surplus in lower Manhattan before they cleared the area for the World Trade Center.

I remember dump tables of greasy Carcanos at $8 in Modell's and a barrel of BSA and Greener Martini Cadets in .310 for $11 in Kaufman's.

Wasn't old enough to buy at that time, and my parents would never have bought me one.

 

[BreechFace]

Yes I know the M1 Carbine was used in WW2 but I had others to fill out the 3 so I decided to put it in post WW2

WW2
Swedish Ljungman
M1 Garand
K98

Post WW2
French MAS 49/56
FN FAL
M1 Carbine

 

[Ignition Override]

Wiscoaster:

i wont forget your FAL variation.
You don’t need to hide it—-

as with people who enjoy the VZ-58——

—-no internet guilt, no apology .

 

[kBob]

Dave,

I really want to read more about your use of cartridge adaptors (where you get one for something as odd as an MAS 36) and what pistol cartridges get used in each caliber.

I had a decent experience with a .308/ .32 ACP in a Savage 110 and annoying but acceptable use of a .223/ .22LR In a host of rifles…. unfortunately I can find neither and fear I left them on a public range table some time back.

Your discussion of Ed Harris’s “The Load” has me wishing I HAD picked up an FR7!

Thanks for all your post with really useful and entertaining “stuff”

-kBob

 

[P5 Guy]