Thoughts on an AR-15 SP1 WITHOUT Forward Assist?
- Thread starter Kestrel
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DMK
Member
I have one that I use as a dedicated .22LR upper.
I've never used the FA on my uppers that do have it though. If you take care of maintenance on your rifle, I don't think it's "needed".... especially if you have a chrome lined chamber.
I've never used the FA on my uppers that do have it though. If you take care of maintenance on your rifle, I don't think it's "needed".... especially if you have a chrome lined chamber.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
The original SP1s were slick side, as were the original M16s. I never had any occasion to use a forward assist on any of the three SP1 ARs I had, or on the SP1 CAR either. A friend had a properly papered XM177, it too was a slick side upper and I never saw it have a need for a forward assist either. I still prefer that style upper for building lightweight carbines.
lpl/nc
lpl/nc
Hkmp5sd
Member
I have one and love it. The forward assist wasn't part of Stoner's original design and was added later. Even with my M16, I've never had to use a forward assist and some gun collectors and writers claim it should never have been added. If you can get an original SP1, go for it.
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
A lot of tac types feel that if the cartridge doesn't want to go into the chamber, then that round probably shouldn't be there, and the appropriate thing to do is rack the action.
After 5k+ rounds, I've found I never needed the forward assist.
Then again, I don't crawl through mud or sandstorms with my homeland defense rifle either.
After 5k+ rounds, I've found I never needed the forward assist.
Then again, I don't crawl through mud or sandstorms with my homeland defense rifle either.
Mine is also a early Colt. No forward assist, No case deflector either, but since I shoot it right handed, it is not a problem. Never wanted or wished it had a FA. I also have a later model CAR that has the FA, but I never have used it.
Grendelizer
Member
I was about to declare the forward assist unnecessary, but I thought I'd check first with a guy with a lot of experience, Jacob Bynum, a tactical trainer in Texas.
I posited that 99% of shooters will never need the forward assist to help chamber a round, and in that rare event when you THINK you need it, 9 times out of 10 you'll just make matters worse by REALLY jamming in a cartridge that shouldn't be in there.
But he pulled the rug out from under me by saying the forward assist is not there to force-chamber sticky rounds, it's there for a "systems check." When you're getting ready for battle (or a drug raid), you pull back the charging handle and chamber a round. So far, so good. But later, just before you get ready to bust down a door, for example, you perform a "systems check" by pulling back on the charging handle a half inch and looking in the ejection port to see if you can "see brass," to verify that the bolt has picked up a round and chambered it.
Now you ease forward the charging handle and PRESS THE FORWARD ASSIST to make sure your round is rechambered. Now you're ready to bust down the door.
That's Bynum's story and I'm stickin' to it.
John
I posited that 99% of shooters will never need the forward assist to help chamber a round, and in that rare event when you THINK you need it, 9 times out of 10 you'll just make matters worse by REALLY jamming in a cartridge that shouldn't be in there.
But he pulled the rug out from under me by saying the forward assist is not there to force-chamber sticky rounds, it's there for a "systems check." When you're getting ready for battle (or a drug raid), you pull back the charging handle and chamber a round. So far, so good. But later, just before you get ready to bust down a door, for example, you perform a "systems check" by pulling back on the charging handle a half inch and looking in the ejection port to see if you can "see brass," to verify that the bolt has picked up a round and chambered it.
Now you ease forward the charging handle and PRESS THE FORWARD ASSIST to make sure your round is rechambered. Now you're ready to bust down the door.
That's Bynum's story and I'm stickin' to it.
John
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Another trainer points out that the FA isn't necessary for a chamber check: you can thumb or pinky the bolt carrier forward easily.
I have used my forward assist both on my personal AR15s and when I was in the Army on my issued M16A1.
I own a Colt SP1 without a forward assist, well, it came that way but I switched out the upper with one that does have a forward assist just so I could have a rifle that was a pretty close copy of the one I was issued.
Here is the deal with the forward assist. On some rifles, you have direct access to the bolt. For example, on an M1 or M14. If the bolt doesn't go forward you can hit it with the heel of your hand and push it home. By the same token, if the rifle is jammed, if need be you can place the butt on the ground and kick the charging handle to open the action and hopefully extract the cartridge in the chamber. Obviously, with an M16, you can't do either. So, with a charging handle you can attempt to push the bolt home. People love to say that if the bolt didn't fly home then the round shouldn't be fired. That is fine at the range, but if your life is on the line and the rifle HAS to fire, you can't call time out for different ammo.
I own a Colt SP1 without a forward assist, well, it came that way but I switched out the upper with one that does have a forward assist just so I could have a rifle that was a pretty close copy of the one I was issued.
Here is the deal with the forward assist. On some rifles, you have direct access to the bolt. For example, on an M1 or M14. If the bolt doesn't go forward you can hit it with the heel of your hand and push it home. By the same token, if the rifle is jammed, if need be you can place the butt on the ground and kick the charging handle to open the action and hopefully extract the cartridge in the chamber. Obviously, with an M16, you can't do either. So, with a charging handle you can attempt to push the bolt home. People love to say that if the bolt didn't fly home then the round shouldn't be fired. That is fine at the range, but if your life is on the line and the rifle HAS to fire, you can't call time out for different ammo.
With all due respect to Mr. Bynum, I like my system better. If the magazine is inserted, the chamber is loaded. Insert the mag, chamber a round. I don't want to be... er... fiddling around with my rifle 2 seconds before kicking in the door because I can't recall if I chambered a round, and I sure as Hell don't want the guy behind me working the bolt on his loaded rifle with me standing on the wrong side of the muzzle. The system he describes sounds bush league, to me. Bad gun handling IMO. I want to verify the weapon is ready long before I step onto the front porch of a drug house.
Mannlicher
Member
I bought my AR Sporter back in the mid 70's. No forward assist, and I never needed it. The little carbine still shoots just fine.
wally
Member
I'd like to see more uppers without the FA available -- they fit in the gun safe much better without the buldge on the side.
--wally.
--wally.
Mute
Member
I've never found a need for it but it doesn't really hurt to have it either so take it or leave it.
ny32182
Member
I think what was being described was a check to make sure the rifle actually HAD chambered a round after letting the bolt fly home, rather than checking to see if the gun is loaded because the operator forgot whether or not he had chambered a round. i.e. you don't want to kick down the door with an unloaded rifle that you think is loaded.
However, my rifles have always stripped rounds when they are supposed to. If you verify the correct position of rounds in the mag, insert the mag into the rifle with the bolt locked open, and then let the bolt fly home, I would think this a non-issue, and the most reliable method to ensure the gun chambers the top round.
All my ARs have had forward assists, but I've never used them. I don't mind having them there though.
NH AR Shooter
Member
My 1977 vintage SP1 still shoots great, never missed having a forward assist on it.
Though if I was taking it into combat or for police use, I would want a forward assist, if only to close the bolt quietly.
Though if I was taking it into combat or for police use, I would want a forward assist, if only to close the bolt quietly.
Hkmp5sd
Member
The "forward assist" was designed to force the bolt closed in case of a misfeed and was something the Army demanded be added to the M16. This was the "fix" the Army came up with to overcome the fouling problems of using the finer grained ball powder they insisted on using instead of the coarse-grained improved military rifle (IMR) powder that the M16 was developed with.
Eugene Stoner, the Air Force, the Marine Corp and Colt all claimed this device had no real benefit.
Any "tactical" checking of the bolt or other use of the forward assist is something that was thought up after the fact.
Eugene Stoner, the Air Force, the Marine Corp and Colt all claimed this device had no real benefit.
Any "tactical" checking of the bolt or other use of the forward assist is something that was thought up after the fact.
Zach S
Member
I've never used mine, but then again I dont get to shoot my AR very often.
I love the looks of a slickside, but I'm left handed and a brass deflector is a must, so slick-sides dont work for me.
For a SHTF rifle, I'd want it for the simple fact I'm used to it being there. Not to mention with my luck, if I dont have it I'll need it. Since I've got it I'll never need it.
I love the looks of a slickside, but I'm left handed and a brass deflector is a must, so slick-sides dont work for me.
For a SHTF rifle, I'd want it for the simple fact I'm used to it being there. Not to mention with my luck, if I dont have it I'll need it. Since I've got it I'll never need it.
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