Thoughts on quality

[Slater]

Some posters on other boards have made the comment that the recent Norinco Hawk 98's (or whatever Norinco calls their 870 knockoff) appear to be equal, if not better in the fit and finish department than some newer 870 Express models. The newer Ithaca 37 copies I've examined look pretty well done also.

For my money, the 870 is the standard against which all others are judged and Remington can still turn out a better product than China. But my thoughts go back to the automotive industry, when we got complacent about quality, and the Japanese didn't. The rest is well known.

Not saying that there are any parallels (and for all I know, there may not be). From all the posts I see about slipping quality standards at Remington and others, some see Norinco and others gaining ground fast on their QC as compared to domestic manufacturers.

Or am I way off base here?

 

[Fred Fuller]

slater,

Norinco has already proven themselves capable of making as good an example of the basic GI style 1911A1 as anyone. So your parallels do extend into the firearms industry. The design is the thing, anyone who can do a creditable job of executing the manufacturing process with decent quality materials to produce a proven design has it knocked.

I have been looking for one of the Chinese 870 copies for better than a year with the idea of checking it out for myself. But no used examples have turned up among the dealers I frequent. I will not pay new price for one because I can still get excellent used 870 Expresses at that price- I want a cheap shotgun to experiment with.

I cannot say first hand how good the Norinco 870 copies are. I know a couple of people who have them, one is a frequent 3-gun competitor and he uses this gun a lot in matches, practice and as a defensive shotgun. I haven't heard any complaints aout them except the sights coming off on the versions that have factory ghostring sights.

I doubt you are off base. The market has demonstrated time after time in recent years that price is primary in selling. It's a brave new world all right...

lpl/nc

 

[Ala Dan]

Hello! I have a few of the NEF 12 gagues left in stock, NIB for $129.88.
These long barrel shotguns appear to be qualitiy copies of the famed
Remington 870 Express. For those that don't know, these weapons are
made in China. The reason the price is so low, we are discontinuing
these from our inventory.

 

[dfariswheel]

From what I see, Reminton's quality problems are mostly on the Express models.

Since this is Remington's "Budget" model specifically built to compete with the much cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg, I think the lower quality can be understood, if not at least partially excused.

It looks to me as though quality convergence between the Express and the Norinco is a matter of an occasional Remington "Oops" and a Norinco "Oh boy".

My major watch-out on the Norinco is the same as on all Chinese made guns....Suspect steel and heat treatment.
The Chinese simply don't appear to have the quality control over their steel, or over the manufacturing process necessary to produce consistant metals and treatment.

I don't see the Chinese rivaling Remington quality anytime soon, UNLESS they go the quality control and manufacturing standards route the Japanese went.
I don't think this level of control is in the cards for the Chinese.