Thoughts on Turkish made shotguns?

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DocRock said:
It’s a mixed bag. The Turks today are like the Eibar manufacturers in Spain 40 years ago. Some of them make some very nice guns. And some of them make rubbish. And there’s rather a lot in between.

I have yet to see a quality, robust o/u from a Turkish maker that will handle high volume. In fact, I have not seen a single gun of any variety from the Turks that would qualify as a high volume target gun. They make some very nice field SxS. I have an S&W Elite Gold and a matching Dickinson in 12 bore. Very nice field guns. Some of the Huglu made CZ guns are very nice looking for the money, especially the wood. Clearly, for the money, some the semis are pretty good.

But they are still building to price points. Have you seen some of the rubbish from Khan and whoever makes some of the ATI stuff. I have seen some semis that I would not care to shoot. And while this will no doubt offend those who think their $300 Yildiz SxS is a quality gun, it is not.

So, there’s nothing wrong with guns being made in Turkey. And they definitely offer value for money. But if it costs nothing, that’s because it’s rubbish. Not because that is all the Turks can make, but because that is all they can make for nothing.

A clarification on the Spanish comparison. While the Turks play a similar role to the Spanish in the 70s, their quality is far better. A single selective trigger on a Sears branded “Matador” was a recipe for doubling in a couple of hundred rounds. A cheap Turkish gun today will be better made and hold up better than a cheap Spanish gun from 1974. But in each case, the makers built to a price point.
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Let's remember that those $100K Purdeys, H&H and BOSS aren't designed for that volume either and that they were always intended to back to the factory after the season for refurbishment
 
MEHavey said:
Where would you put TriStar/Armsan in that mix?

(For the record I have multiple Model-12s, ditto Rem 1100s and 870s (Express & Wing), an early Miroku/Browning Citori, another Finnish "Lion" O/U, more Ithaca-37s, a couple of Berettas (Pigeon & 6xx)...

...and a little Tristar Viper at the tail-end of that list that..... "ain't bad" ) :thumbup:
https://tsswarehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/imp/3/5/4/6/0/6/354606.jpg
(for less than $500, in fact, it's incredible)
:what:
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As I pointed out earlier, most of the Turkish semis are great guns for the money, the viper is a good solid value; I bought one for the 4-H Trap program, in 20 ga. for the kids who's dad would send them out with a 30" barreled, 14.5 LOP 1100 when they were 10 years old, to use. They tended to shoot the Tri-Star 20 better, and when I tried it out, it busted clays just fine, and it being an a300 clone, easy to take care of.

But the TT-15 Trap gun (O/U, top single, or under single) is not capable of holding up to the volume of rounds beyond what all but the most casual trapshooter puts through their gun. The other main problem is that while the have most of the bells and whistles a Trap gun should have, they lack an important fit component for Trap: a parallel comb. Though the comb on most TT-15 versions is adjustable, it has way too much drop for that feature to be useful; it just raises the cheek up so the gun can slap it higher up.

While George P. is right, Purdey & etc. owners are dilegent in sending their treasures in to have loving care lavished upon them (as well they should) ; the guns themselves do stand up to higher volumes of shells than a TT-15 would, just because of attention to detail-using the best quality parts, the best steels for recievers and barrels, etc. They don't have a price point to stick with.
It comes down to quality costs money. Turkish manufacturers are well capable of putting out excellent quality guns, and some are made. But the vast majority of Turkish gun production is in the Sears catalog of c. 1900 "Aubrey" brand shotguns level of quality. Those were made for sears by (usually) Belgian manufacturers to match a price point set by Sears, though with much better steel and fluid steel barrels instead of laminated twist or Damascus twist. This is by design. Get your name out there, sell some volume, then you can get the quality going up with time, as they learn as did the Belgian shops did in the latter 19th and early 20 century did.
There will always be sombody willing to build guns at a lower price point to get a share of the market. Taurus and Armscor are two more recent examples; the former having several ups and downs in the market, reflecting different ownerships' visions for the brand. Armscor guns started out with a sketchy reputation, and have developed into an excellent brand for the money. Their investment in .22 TCM and making 1911 platform guns in many different calibers and configurations shows they keep going upward and onward.
 
Does anyone know which Turkish manufacturer is making the Pro Series S Max for Black Aces Tactical? I picked up one recently, and am very surprised at the fit and finish for the ridiculously low price i paid.
 
I have a Linberta and it’s a shooting machine. Eats everything I have fed it so far.

I was in Turkey for Iraqi Freedom. People were buying all sorts of over/unders and shipping them back.
 
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MEHavey said:
Where would you put TriStar/Armsan in that mix?

(For the record I have multiple Model-12s, ditto Rem 1100s and 870s (Express & Wing), an early Miroku/Browning Citori, another Finnish "Lion" O/U, more Ithaca-37s, a couple of Berettas (Pigeon & 6xx)...

...and a little Tristar Viper at the tail-end of that list that..... "ain't bad" ) :thumbup:
https://tsswarehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/imp/3/5/4/6/0/6/354606.jpg
(for less than $500, in fact, it's incredible)
:what:
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Copy of a solid design, manufactured with good fit an finish. One of the better ones.

But do the math. Retail for less than $500. Now subtract Retailer and Importer margins, Sales Tax, Pittman-Robertson Excise Tax, Import Duty, Transport costs, and Manufacturer Margin. And ask yourself what it cost to make.
 
I have one of the semi-auto BP-12 clones (mine says Landor Arms). Had a few issues early on with the bolt not closing fully, the thing was practically soaked in oil, it came with a sling but no way to attach that sling to the gun, and the manual it came with stopped one step short of showing the full disassembly.

BUT no problems in recent range trips and the manual actually says to put 100 rounds through it as part of breaking it in so I don't hold the early problems against it TOO much. It feeds low recoil stuff just fine. Still, it'll be several hundred more rounds before I really trust it.

It is very fun to shoot. :cool:
 
I am happy with the 2 Turkish made shotguns that I have. My first was a Huglu SxS .410 shotgun with 28" barrels. Actually shoots quite well even though I usually only shoot skeet with it and the mod and full barrels really keep you honest on skeet targets. It is a single trigger model with the Prince of Wales semi-pistol grip stock, nice wood. I added a mid bead to the barrel and tried slugs through it. At 50 yards the slugs were only 4" apart. The left barrel, full choke, shot at about 11:00 on the target and the right barrel, modified, shot about 3:00 . Called it the poor man's express rifle, extremely well regulated. Worst problem about it is the 10 pound trigger pulls on a 7 pound gun. Even with the horrible trigger pull I have managed several 25 straights on the skeet range, when I am on the targets they are smoked.

Second is basically an identical shotgun made by CZ but in 20 gauge, 28" barrels with choke tubes, has about an 8 pound trigger pull on this gun. Wood is pretty nice, but not as good as the older Huglu. Single trigger SxS. I haven't tried to use slugs through it to see how well it is regulated, but my first round of skeet with it I ran a 25, so I figured it was pretty well parallel. I have to keep an eye on the fore-end latch under the barrel as it tries to open up slightly under recoil, not enough to actually open, but enough that it snags on things and bugs me.

I know they are not made for high volume, the .410 has maybe 3000 rounds through it and the 20 gauge no more than about 1500. I just wanted them for fun and walking around on the farm and in the woods. I have my Beretta target gun for high volume and several Remington 1100's and 870's when I want to change it up a bit.
 
I am also looking at the CZ Huglu Bobwhite Generation 2 in 12 or 20.

What a classy gun. Not too ornate but still pretty. And reviews are really quite excellent. Reminds me of the Brownong BSS.

I'd use it for walking around fun, blasting, occasional hand thrown clay pigeon gun, with hunting being secondary. I just LOVE handling and firing a SxS and for me, I see them as more than just a hunting weapon. I see them as a for fun gun too.
 
kudu said:
Second is basically an identical shotgun made by CZ but in 20 gauge, 28" barrels with choke tubes, has about an 8 pound trigger pull on this gun.
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I believe heavy triggers are endemic to CZ shotguns. I’ve owned two 720’s and they had the heaviest triggers I’ve ever encountered. I don’t need 3 pounds or less like I prefer on a rifle but 4-5 pounds would be great.
 
From my limited experience with them ( I don’t own one but have seen many come through my shop) they are much better quality than similar shotguns made in Brazil or Russia. They seem to have improved on the soft metal problems that plagued some of the early double barrels. The semi’s are right up there with the European made ones. Like in China, the importer can purchase any level of fit and finish he wants. Don’t blame the Turks if your cheap shotgun is a little rough.
 
Turkey is one of the countries that allows its normal citizens to own shotguns and has for a very, very long time. They have all kinds of junk, like Turkish walnut, some of the most beautiful and expensive gun wood in the world. The Turks can make a top quality shotgun that will absolutely knock your eye out. I have also seen a couple of the factories.
They make multiple models and quality guns, not just one quality. Something similar to a Turk judging General Motors by a Caprice Station Wagon.
 
Turkey has quite a few shotgun manufacturers and they have been making shotguns for a while. As mentioned before if you have bought a more budget friendly model from either an American or European shotgun maker it may have been made in Turkey. As with anything do your research before you buy and if you do you can end up with a quality shotgun for an affordable price.
 
TacticalChurchill said:
Hi everyone, new to the forum. I hope everyone is doing well today.

I wanted to start a discussion on Turkish made firearms, specifically the shotguns that have been so abundant as of late. I was hoping to hear some informed opinions and have some experiences shared in relation to these firearms. I've seen a lot of disdain for these no-name Turkish made shotguns around the internet and I wonder to myself if the people that bash them have actually owned one or if they are simply just subscribing to the theory of others for the purpose of riding the negative bandwagon simply for the sake of it.

I personally just purchased an Akkar Churchill 612 (imported by EAA) and so far it has been great. It is the same shotgun as the CZ 612 which seems to have gotten a slight bit of attention years ago. I purchased it as a bedside gun and plan to take it down to the range once every 2-3 months and put a box or two of shells through it.

So, my personal opinion thus far is that it is solid for what I paid. In other words, a decent gun for the money. Is it the same quality as a Remington 870 or Mossberg 5xx - no, surely not. But for what it is I feel like it's just fine. I look forward to hearing the opinion of others here on this forum. Thank you!
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Skb has moved there. I love there vintage XL 900s and own 3 of them. 2 12s and a 20. Best autos I have ever shot. All Japanese guns. I hear Good things abou their Turkish guns also. Plus I hear the Turkish Walnut is Very Good Quality.
 
I have been looking the bullpup semi autos from Turkey. Panzer, Landor and such. They all look much the same. Wonder if the manufacturer is the same?
 
I'm pretty well set on the CZ Bobwight G2 in 12 gauge.

I'll let you all know. Was thinking of a used 311 but they've gone up in price a lot and many for sale are terribly worn or cooroded. If I could find a nice one that'd be different but them guns was rode wet and put away hard.
 
JCooperfan1911 said:
I'm pretty well set on the CZ Bobwight G2 in 12 gauge.

I'll let you all know. Was thinking of a used 311 but they've gone up in price a lot and many for sale are terribly worn or cooroded. If I could find a nice one that'd be different but them guns was rode wet and put away hard.
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Good choice. It's an attractive and nicely finished field gun, and properly appointed with straight grip stock, splinter forend, and double triggers. How they can make and sell them for $600 is baffling. Far better than some worn out old 311 with a pistol grip and vile beaver tail forend. Enjoy!
 
In the recent past I've bought several of the dirt-cheap Hatfield-branded guns sold at Walmart, which are made in Turkey. I got two semi-autos and a single shot. The single shot started popping open when fired after about 10 rounds. One of the semi-autos would hit every tenth primer too weakly to fire (it's possible this was an ammo issue, I was never able to pin that down) and the third gun needed plenty of buffing, polishing, and break-in, but then it worked fine.
My feelings about them are mixed. I bought them to fool around with, because they were so cheap I figured I had nothing to really lose. I got all three guns new, combined, for less than $500. In the end the problems they had were mostly fixable, and I thought their basic parts were sturdy enough to stand up to average levels of use from a seasonal hunter. (Weak springs seemed to be a common thread.) But I'm a tinkerer by nature, so I actually enjoyed getting them to work. Someone with a different point of view might've gotten frustrated and just junked these guns. I would understand if they did. Then, I'd haul their junked guns out of the dumpster and make them work. :D
 
There was a time when there were some really low quality SxS’s coming out of Spain to the U.S. The reason was the shotguns were made to a price point the importers were willing to pay. Spain has always had the ability to produce very fine quality shotguns and as far as I know that’s pretty much all that comes out of Spain today.

Which leads me to Turkey.
WVGunman said:
In the recent past I've bought several of the dirt-cheap Hatfield-branded guns sold at Walmart, which are made in Turkey.
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There comes a point where the price paid precludes getting good quality, as I believe is evidenced by Hatfield shotguns. At the prices Walmart sold them at, I believe it’s impossible to have decent quality. But just like Spain back in the day, Turkey can and DOES produce quality firearms for companies that will pay a little more for decent quality.

To date I’ve owned or own Turkish made firearms marketed by Weatherby, Mossberg, CZ and Stoeger. They all went bang every time the trigger was pulled. I’ve been seriously impressed with the Weatherbys and the one handgun, a Stoeger Cougar. I’ve had the Cougar around fifteen years and it’s still going strong.
 
Got my little 612 today....things actually pretty nice.
It feels about like a new 500 in function, but with a nicer trigger. It only weights 5lbs some odd empty, and 6.25lbs carrying 5 rounds of 23/4 4buck.
It will get shot next time I go to the range I'm sure, not likely to run anything heavier than 23/4 field loads thru it tho, a 6lbs pump is lighter than I want to eat magnum recoil from.
 
I have a Walmart Tristar U/O that's an ok hunting gun--will it stand up to high volume shooting like my Citori? Probably not----but it did a few compliments out dove shooting last fall---not bad for a cheapie O/U shotgun.
 
I've had bad luck with them myself.

I bought a Charles Daly pump made in Turkey years ago (impulse purchase - Walmart had it clearanced for $125). It had a problem with light strikes. I bought a CZ-712 autoloader made in Turkey. It often wouldn't go fully into battery when self-cycling. That one really disappointed me as that gun shouldered and pointed better than any other gun I've touched, but its pointless if it isn't reliable. My brother bought a Stoeger 2000 made in Turkey. It too often had issues with "snapping" (not firing) on shells. He sent it back to the factory twice and twice it came back doing the same thing. He insisted they send him a new gun and thankfully the replacement worked fine.

Now I did trade my way into a Stoeger 2000 myself and it has worked flawlessly (its actually my primary hunting shotgun now), but I got it in trade used from a cousin of mine and so I already knew that he'd shot it a lot and had no issues with it. Most recently I picked up a Stoeger P3000 (I wanted a Benelli Nova with a walnut sock and this was about as close as I could get :)) and it looks nice, but I haven't gotten out to actually fire it yet.

Basically, it seems to be largely hit or miss from my experience. If you get a good one they're just as good as anything else, but it really is a roll of the dice.
 
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