Thoughts on Two Calibers

[Olympus]

I was hoping people could provide me with some insight into two calibers that I'm debating on getting next. I like to go with something less common so I was thinking about the .45-70 or the .260.

I know the .45-70 has been out for a long time and I like the appeal of the brush rifle, but just curious as to the recoil. I'm not recoil sensitive, but have a tendancy to flinch slightly.

As for the .260, I know it's a relatively new caliber and I can't seem to find much information on it, especially from people who actually own one and have used one.

 

[JesseL]

What do you want to do with your next rifle?

 

[Olympus]

I don't suppose I have any specific use planned for the next rifle. I have a good spread of calibers so this one would just be to add to my collection.

 

[EHCRain10]

well ive got a 45-70 and really enjoy it
it is very hard to find cheap ammo for the 45-70 but it is a fun gun to shoot

 

[Shawnee]

Well, the .45/70 shines as a moderate range heavy-hitter and the .260 is a very, very versatile and accurate caliber. Either would be as good a safe queen as anything else.

 

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

Both are fun as all get out to handload for. I have different friends that load one or the other. The .45-70 is fun to see how big a boom you can get, especially in lever guns. The .260 is a little more sedate and civilized, more accuracy and precision.

I guess it depends on whether you want to measure powder in a scale or by baking cups.

 

[Colt46]

Both fine calibers

Very different.
.260 is a fine short action(usually bolt) intermediate cartridge that is perfect for long range target work or hunting large sized game out to medium range. I'm talking deer and elk. Larger game than that, maybe not.

.45/70 has been around for generations and is a great largest game rifle. Velocity is kinda low so you normally wouldn't consider it a distance champion(Buffalo hunters rarely had trouble with it though), your mileage may vary. As a brush gun maybe you should think of the old 30/30 It makes for a handy sized rifle with low recoil and perfect for brushy country.

 

[Bowman140]

I have hunted with a .260 in the past, but I find that if your bullet placement isn't perfect, you probably never find the animal. I have killed several deer with it, but it doesn't have the knock down that I look for in a deer rifle. Honestly, I would go for the .45-70.

 

[JesseL]

I have hunted with a .260 in the past, but I find that if your bullet placement isn't perfect, you probably never find the animal. I have killed several deer with it, but it doesn't have the knock down that I look for in a deer rifle. Honestly, I would go for the .45-70.

I hate to break it to you, but if you make a bad shot on a deer with a .45-70 it'll be just as lost.

 

[jbech123]

I have hunted with a .260 in the past, but I find that if your bullet placement isn't perfect, you probably never find the animal. I have killed several deer with it, but it doesn't have the knock down that I look for in a deer rifle. Honestly, I would go for the .45-70.

Nonsense. The same shot that didn't work in putting the animal down would have had the same result if you shot it with a bigger round. Deer are not really that tough. Sure there is the odd occurance of one running farther than you thought with a good hit, but 99.9% of the time you hit them in the right spot with any centerfire and they go down. A few years back my brother in law(a farmer), had a major deer problem and a bunch of cull tags from fish and game. Under controlled conditions(snow on ground for easy tracking, only taking open field shots so even if they ran they'd go along way and I wouldn't lose sight of them, and guy standing by with a bigger rifle just in case), I shot 9 deer in one day with a .223 using 55 grain bullets. I wanted to see for myself what I'd always thought, that within reason, the caliber is not very important. Shots were between 100 and 220 yards, right behind the shoulder, no head shots. All adult does except one decent buck. The one that went the furthest after being shot took 3 steps. And yes all the meat was used, either by me, friends, or donated to the food bank. I am not advocating a 223 for deer, but it just goes to show how silly things are when people argue about the effectiveness of a 30-06 vs 270, 308 vs 300wsm, talk about "knockdown power" or other such ridiculousness.

 

[Macchina]

shot 9 deer in one day with a .223 using 55 grain bullets.

No matter what the meat went to, that is irresponsible (the quantity of deer) and illegal in most states (the quantity of deer and caliber). I also don't believe you. Not trying to start a war, but you're either a liar or not a sportsman.

I am not advocating a 223 for deer...

Yes you are! And why wouldn't you, it made 9 instant/near instant kills in one day. To me that sounds like a fantastic hunting round!

I have hunted with a .260 in the past, but I find that if your bullet placement isn't perfect, you probably never find the animal. I have killed several deer with it, but it doesn't have the knock down that I look for in a deer rifle. Honestly, I would go for the .45-70.

I'd tend to agree with you on a high power round being more effective at an instant kill. I've shot deer with my 12 gauge and 3" slugs and they fell like I was pushing over a decoy. No deer I've shot with rifle (30-06, 7mm-08) has done that (All shots were double-lungers). I think the .260 is a great deer cartridge and not at all underpowered, all I'm saying is that a high shock, large diameter round has caused a lot more instant kills in my experience.

As to Olympus' original question: Get the .45-70 in a lever gun. Lever guns are great, and a ton of fun to shoot. With a precision target rifle, it takes time and practice, with a lever gun, grab a few cheap cans of pop and blast away!

 

[DRYHUMOR]

Culling deer is legal, if you have the permits from the state. I know a lot of farmers, both crop and tree that have problems. They have 2 choices, tell hunters during the season to shoot everything, or get culling permits. Best thing really is to shoot does late in the season after they are bred. Then you remove 1 to 3 from the herd with one shot.

As for the 223. Our troops use it, is it any less or more humane on a man than a deer? I would have used a 77 grain, however, instead of a 55.

I've been looking at the 45 70 also, good ratings on the ammo at Midway USA.

Ever thought about a 257 Roberts?

 

[slzy]

what part of "culling tags" did he not understand?

 

[Shawnee]

I, too, have done, and do, quite a bit of legal deer culling on agricultural damage permits, and have used multiple calibers to do it. Have also been witness to a lot of cull shooting. Twice last year I watched as my neighbor dropped four deer in less than 7 minutes with a .22/250 and the closest one was about 170yds. None of them moved more than 10 steps My neighbor is easily the best field shot I've ever seen..

Can't provide the science to prove or disprove it - but, by my observation/experience, the "through the lungs shot" seems to drop a deer in its' tracks more often when the shot is made with a bigger bullet from a moderate speed caliber than from highly frangible and/or Mach 4 bullet. But even with the bigger calibers the "through-the-lungs-shot" is not a guaranteed on the spot kill. Candidly, I really do not like the "through-the-lungs-shot".

Again, by my observation/experience, ALL calibers produce DRT kills much more consistantly if the bullet is sent into/through the spinal column or, of course, the head. Which is to say shot placement is most of the program and, as "jbech123" points out - caliber is rarely, if ever, the star of the show in deer hunting.

 

[Cypress]

I have no experience with the .260 but my 1895G 45-70 is probably my favorite gun. It's fun to shoot and recoil is not at all bad when shooting factory junk. It just rears up like a big pistol. Hot and heavy loads are great for "I just wanted to see that look on your face". Points and shoots naturally. Great on game. I will say that anybody who thinks shot placement isn't as important with a round like this doesn't have much experience. Most of the time game will run further with the 45-70 if you don't strike heavy bone. It just cuts a clean hole straight through. On the other hand you can make head shot via @$$hole on just about anything on this continent.

 

[Onmilo]

Geez, asking for a comparison of a .45-70 to a .260 Remington is along the same lines of asking for a comparison of a mortar to a laser beam!

Both are very effective when used in the context of the original design parameters.


If I was shooting Black bear or deer in wooded areas or steel targets at a Buffalo Shoot Match I would choose the .45-70.
If I was shooting antelope at 400 meters, I would choose the .260 Remington.

Both cartridges can easily kill game animals up to Elk at 200 meters.
Neither is something I would choose for paper target shooting.

 

[Bowman140]

I hate to break it to you, but if you make a bad shot on a deer with a .45-70 it'll be just as lost.

I am not talking about a completley messed up shot where you hit several inches off target, there I agree with you. I am saying that with a larger, heavier bullet on mediocre shots blood will be lost quicker and the animal will be found sooner.

 

[jbech123]

Quote:
shot 9 deer in one day with a .223 using 55 grain bullets.

No matter what the meat went to, that is irresponsible (the quantity of deer) and illegal in most states (the quantity of deer and caliber). I also don't believe you. Not trying to start a war, but you're either a liar or not a sportsman.

A matter of perspective I suppose, but with corn prices what they are, the acres and acres of crops the deer were destroying was problematic. To the point the fish and game gave him 50 deer tags. That was just him and his ~1500 acres, the other farmers in the area had tags as well. So both the farmers and the F&G agreed that a large number of deer in that area needed to be culled. So what I did was not illegal. Many of the farmers in that area will just shoot them and leave them lay(which I feel is wrong.) So I shot 9 deer and no meat went to waste. My brother in law is not a hunter really, so if I wouldn't have shot them, he would have done the same thing with his '06 and took them down to the food bank. Or maybe the neighbor farmer would have (legally) shot them and let them lay. So my way of looking at it was: I enjoy hunting, X number of deer WILL be culled, I can be involved and know the deer will not be wasted. As far as being a liar, I guess I can't convince you over the internet that I'm a truthful person.

Quote:
I am not advocating a 223 for deer...

Yes you are! And why wouldn't you, it made 9 instant/near instant kills in one day. To me that sounds like a fantastic hunting round!

Those were ideal conditions, something not always encoutered when hunting.
My point here really was, if you hit a deer with a .260 in the right spot, it will go down quickly.

I've shot deer with my 12 gauge and 3" slugs and they fell like I was pushing over a decoy. No deer I've shot with rifle (30-06, 7mm-08) has done that (All shots were double-lungers). I think the .260 is a great deer cartridge and not at all underpowered, all I'm saying is that, have at a high shock, large diameter round has caused a lot more instant kills in my experience.

I'm not saying you are wrong on this one, your experience is your experience, but I have actually noticed the opposite on deer. The ones I've shot with slugs(unless it was very close range) tended to go farther. Things I've shot with high velocity rounds, like a 7mm mag went down immediately.

 

[marksman13]

No matter what the meat went to, that is irresponsible (the quantity of deer) and illegal in most states (the quantity of deer and caliber). I also don't believe you. Not trying to start a war, but you're either a liar or not a sportsman.

Personally, i think it's kind of irresponsible and unsportsmanlike to call someone such dirty names without reading his entire post. The art of reading an comprehension is lost.

 

[publiuss]

If you decide to go w/the .260 I would seriously consider the 6.5x55. The Swede matches, or possibly betters the .260 w/handloads and it is not going anywhere. The jury is still out on the future of the .260.

 

[jbech123]

As for the 223. Our troops use it, is it any less or more humane on a man than a deer? I would have used a 77 grain, however, instead of a 55.

I agree. The reason for that is I have a Rem. 700 classic .223, with the twist it has, it will put 3 shots under a half inch at 100yds with 55 gr. if I can do my part, which is not always! I tried black hills 75 gr in that gun and the groups were about 3". So I didn't have much choice. No doubt the 77 would be better.

 

[BIGR]

While we are talking about the .260 for deer, is it any better than the
7MM-08 for deer? Just wondering because I'D like to have a medium caliber for deer hunting.

 

[jbech123]

While we are talking about the .260 for deer, is it any better than the 7MM-08 for deer?

Makes no difference to the deer that is for sure. For a game animal like a deer, there is no discernable difference between those 2. Everyone has an opinion and I like to debate caliber choice as much as the next guy. Realistically though, worrying about that makes about as much sense as my 160lb ass standing in the ring with Mike Tyson in his prime, but worrying whether he is wearing 15oz gloves or 16oz gloves. Technically there is a difference in the amount of force I will be hit with, but that should not be even in the top 10 list of concerns I have.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi BIGR....

"jbech123" is right on re: the .260 and 7mm/08.

I'll add that both of those calibers are notably more than one would need for deer hunting. The .243 ia practically tailor-made for deer hunting but there are many other calibers that will put venison in the freezer too.

A better approach is to find a rifle model you really like and then select a caliber from its' specific list of chamberings.

 

[Onmilo]

Deer,,,,,,,
I have found anything from .22LR to .460 Weatherby, 12 guage and 20 guage included, is effective on deer and if you want one caliber specifically for deer hunting, the .30/30 Winchester is still a great and common cartridge.

I have killed deer with .223, .30/30, .308, .30.06, .45-70, 12 guage, 20 guage, 6.5 Japanese Arisaka, Ford F250 pick-up, and a GMC AstroCab tractor.

All were effective at killing deer,,,,,,