Time to clear some stuff up on Florida Open Carry

[mustang_steve]

There seems to be a lot of references in a few threads I have read as of late to Florida allowing Open Carry.

This is a very dangerous statement and will not end well for Average Joe who ends up trying it.

This is all according to the info found in "FLORIDA FIREARMS, Law, Use & Ownership 6th edition", which is a fine resource for understanding Florida's laws.....seriously, go buy it, it's inexpensive for what you get out of it.

I won't plagarize the book (seriously go buy it...it's about the cost of two boxes of 9mm FMJ at today's prices), but the summary is this: Unless you are involved in security, law enforcement, or any occupation granted permission to carry open (which are defined in the law), you CANNOT open carry. Those groups also have their limitations as well (duty only). Now, as one who cannot open carry, you pretty much have to be involved in a sporting activity that would normally entail the use of firearms (or fishing), or be partaking in a gun show or collectors function of some flavor to openly carry a firearm, and only at, to and from those events (pistols have to be in a "secure wrapper" and unloaded).

As for vehicle....we all know the laws on that, nothing that is on the person or readily accessible. Pizzabox may work (someone did win over this, but it may be best to not do this), glovebox or latching center console box works better.

Before you say "OBJECTION! the guys at the range or gun shop open carry, HA!"...note the comment above about "any occupation granted permission to carry open"....they fall under this so long as they aren't operating outside of the law. I'd cover it all, but it's too much to type, especially with my bad typing.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

I always thought gun shop open carry was about being on your own property, thus laws not applying to you.

Here in NJ virtually no one besides LEO or security can openly carry. We have a may issue system where virtually no one is issued a permit. But you walk into a gun shop and all the employees got a pistol on their hip.

THat's because wherever you live, you could walk around your house with a gun in a holster if you want to and it's legal. Step out into the street (or even the front lawn depending where you live) and that's a different story. So I figure the gun shop employees carry because they are in their dwelling and therefore don't need a permit.

 

[hotshotshoting]

actually you can carry in open or concealed in FL on private property with or without a license... as long as you have the owners permission and i suggest you get that in writing...


however do not be alarmed if some citizen calls the police and you get a ticket for disturbing the peace or something along those lines if your walking around your front yard with an AR-15....

its just common sense in my gun shop and range i allow my employees to carry open based solely on the fact that the security of my customers and employees is #1.

i also agree for you to purchase the book! the lawyer is excellent and is 1 of the top rated firearms attorneys in the state!

im not sure about the rules if its ok to post a link to his site and book so i wont but the book shouldn't be hard to find it often is referred to as the fl gun law bible, and rumor is that hes working on a new book to cope with the ever rising questions about Class 3 !

 

[kanook]

however do not be alarmed if some citizen calls the police and you get a ticket for disturbing the peace or something along those lines if your walking around your front yard with an AR-15....

Please post where you found this, as it is legal to carry on your own private property. Long gun, short gun, any gun concealed or not is legal for carry on private property with concent from land owner.

 

[hotshotshoting]

Disturbing the peace is a crime generally defined as the unsettling of proper order in a public space through one's actions. feel free to ask any law enforcement officer or lawyer if its applicable the ones i know all agree that it can be but hey its all perception...

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Please post where you found this, as it is legal to carry on your own private property. Long gun, short gun, any gun concealed or not is legal for carry on private property with concent from land owner.

Legal on the books or not, you can certainly get a ticket for disturbing the peace by open carrying out in your own yard. It's less about gun laws and more about living in FL and having neighbors from NJ/NY that are terrified of guns calling the cops because they dont know its legal. The cops who show up work for the town that values its new, bigger tax paying out of state residents more and hand the FL guy a ticket for disturbing the peace. Happens all the time in "purple" states like PA, FL, etc.

 

[mustang_steve]

The gun shop employees carry because they are a specifically exempt group as per the law. Employees of businesses in the business of manufacturing, repair or dealing of firearms can open carry on the premises.

For OC on your outdoor property (like your lawn), two conditions have to be met:
1) It's not a common area (like an apartment parking lot for example)
2) You OWN the deed to this property...if you rent, you cannot.

There was no note in the book of exemptions for permission to OC on other's property. I suspect this might be a condition where the law is just ignored by some police.

Sidewalks can be considered a "common area" so stay off them unless you want to be the test case on this. Keep in mind there's also a fine line between OC and brandishing thanks to the verbage of the law.

 

[hotshotshoting]

mustang gun shop employees are not specifically exempt this applies to anyone that owns and operates a business...

in Florida you cannot carry a concealed firearm in a bar. however if you own the bar you can... and also if the owner gives written consent you can as well!

i have letters to where i can carry open or concealed in quite a few bars in my local area!

now what you are saying about common area is correct you have to be careful in townhouses, apartments, and even some homeowners associations where people all own a share of "shared area" those are not covered under the private property laws.

but if you rent a hotel room you can carry inside the hotel room open or concealed its kinda weird like that!

 

[kanook]

Legal on the books or not, you can certainly get a ticket for disturbing the peace by open carrying out in your own yard.

If I'm doing yard work on my own property with a gun on my hip, how am I disturbing the piece?

If what you are saying is true, a person hunting could also be charged with disturbing the piece. After all they are in possesion of a firearm out in the open.

 

[kanook]

Hey everyone. I finally have an answer.

I contacted Evelyn Lynn's office, and she forwarded an email from me to the People That Decide, and this is what was related to me as a result.

When you are fishing, hunting and camping, you may open carry while doing so, from your vehicle or other mode of transportation to the place you will fish, hunt, or camp. Open carrying from your house is stretching it a little too far, and they said that carrying in a 7-11 while getting gas will be more trouble than it's worth, and possibly result in arrest until the dust settles. I was wondering about open carrying on the way to a fishing trip, if you are riding a bicycle. Just a thought (I love to argue)

Now, as far as state parks go. 62D was written after the Castle Doctrine (790.25) and therefore is relevant. If I push this one with the legislature, it could be dangerous because they could work the laws in the opposite way I would like. It would be better to challenge this one legally and get case law to back it up. It really is a biggie though, because with the State Park and National Parks sharing the same rules, it prevents camping while open carrying on national land as well. This one really is a mess.

Lastly, Open Carrying a 9mm on your hip, while fishing in a CITY park, public roadway, bridge that allows fishing, or anywhere else, as long as you are legal otherwise, is legal.

I have an appointment with a lawyer tomorrow to discuss park carry. I'll let you know how that comes out.

Seems that it's legal to OC to an extent. If you are within the law, you can't be charged for breaking it.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

If I'm doing yard work on my own property with a gun on my hip, how am I disturbing the piece?

If what you are saying is true, a person hunting could also be charged with disturbing the piece. After all they are in possesion of a firearm out in the open.

What I'm saying is, unfortunately, 100% true. I don't think it's right either, but it does happen.

Because the ridiculous housing prices in states like NJ, NY, CT, etc. many people are moving out of them and into states like FL, PA, etc.

It's an interesting mix of two sets of people who are used to very different ways of life. It's not just with guns either. I know a guy in Wisconsin was recently arrested, had his firearm seized, and charged with disorderly conduct. Why? He was mowing the lawn of his own home and his neighbor panicked and called the cops. Cops showed up, confiscated his gun, and took him down to the station. Now he's in for a legal mess of lawyer fees, trying to get a gun back from the evidence room, etc.

It may be legal but if you live in a Red state or area that's turning Purple lately, you might want to be careful about open carrying, regardless what your state law says.

 

[kanook]

I know a guy in Wisconsin was recently arrested, had his firearm seized, and charged with disorderly conduct. Why? He was mowing the lawn of his own home and his neighbor panicked and called the cops. Cops showed up, confiscated his gun, and took him down to the station. Now he's in for a legal mess of lawyer fees, trying to get a gun back from the evidence room, etc.

I don't know WI laws, we are talking FL.

How can you be legally charged with DC if you are OCing on your own property? Florida law says it's legal to OC on your land, I dought highly that you can be charged for doing something legal. Please post dates and locations where this has happened.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

How can you be legally charged with DC if you are OCing on your own property? Florida law says it's legal to OC on your land, I dought highly that you can be charged for doing something legal. Please post dates and locations where this has happened.

It's easy, your anti-gun neighbor calls the cops saying you're on the front lawn brandishing a gun, or waving a gun, or whatever.

 

[kanook]

They have to prove that you did that. Just saying that you did is not enough.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

It's enough to ruin your week.

 

[j-easy]

I don't know WI laws, we are talking FL.

How can you be legally charged with DC if you are OCing on your own property? Florida law says it's legal to OC on your land, I dought highly that you can be charged for doing something legal. Please post dates and locations where this has happened.

I live in Florida, and this is definitely true if you OC in your front yard you can be charged with disturbing the peace if someone freaks out and calls the cops. I'm not saying it always will happen, but it can happen.

 

[mustang_steve]

Many legal actions can be covered under some vague offenses.

I got one when I was 18 (back when i lived in Indiana), for blasting music in my car. There was no noise ordinance, but I still got a Disorderly Conduct, notes detailed noise. I spent my night in lockup (mandatory for DC charges), got my car out of impound when I got out, and had to pay a $120 fine. In the end it was just over $200. Blasting Metallica was not worth that.

It was rather irritating to say the least, even though I did deserve it for being an obnoxious PITA. I can imagine how much more annoying it would be if I had a firearm to retrieve from the station.

Just goes to show, if there is not a specific offense against it, if it irritates or disturbs others enough, it can fall into disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct. The name of the game in this case is "if it's legal, do it where it will be well recieved".

 

[kanook]

If you can provide factual case that this has happened, I will let it rest. Otherwise I stand my ground.

I got one when I was 18 (back when i lived in Indiana), for blasting music in my car. There was no noise ordinance, but I still got a Disorderly Conduct, notes detailed noise

At the end of what you posted, you were charged for having your radio too loud. You broke a code of some sort, otherwise you could not be charged.

If my neighbour or a passer by sees me in the yard with a firearm and calls the SO, the charge cannot be DC for open display of a firearm or wreckless display or anything display. It's not illegal. Doesn't matter what they think.

If you can provide dates and locations on where a person was charged for OCing on their own property, I still want to see them. There is more to the story if the person is charged than just OCing on private land.

 

[kanook]

Just goes to show, if there is not a specific offense against it, if it irritates or disturbs others enough, it can fall into disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct.

And if this were true, all firearm owners would have this charge against them. All hunters would be charged by PETA for hunting.

 

[Art Eatman]

This has gone way too far off topic...