Tin Foil Hat Topic: Buying "under the table".

[loneviking]

Having recently had some guns stolen, I contacted the ATF to try to prove ownership for an insurance dispute. The ATF has no record of what you purchased under your name. The only way they can trace is by serial number and the records only go back to about 1990 in their database. So, no, I'm not worried about this.

 

[scaatylobo]

Midnight digging

I was told by many shooter friends that they have plans in place to do some 'backyard' planting at O'dark thirty if there is a gun confiscation law passed.

They also said it was not actually their backyard,just an expression.

I too doubt that it will ever come to this in my lifetime,but .

 

[22-rimfire]

...the records only go back to about 1990 in their database.

That is 22 years and this alone is a cause for concern since the ATF can not keep these records by law (as I understand it).

 

[Rail Driver]

... because if it ever gets to that point we are screwed.

That defeatist attitude is what will cause us the most trouble IF it comes to that point.

 

[Deanimator]

90% of my gun (at least) were purchased face to face from individuals.

The government doesn't have a CLUE how many guns I have or where they are.

I like it that way.

 

[Apuuli]

That's what you think! BWAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Walkalong]

That defeatist attitude

I disagree that it is a defeatist attitude, more like a realistic attitude.

 

[Bubbles]

No pulling 4473s from dealers; apparently they went door to door and if you answered, asked, got guns?

Of course today anti-gunners maintain none of that happened, it was just NRA propaganda.

With all due respect to local LE - without a subpoena or warrant, you have no business looking through my 4473's or bound books.

 

[Twmaster]

Defeatist or realist, we -are- in deep doo-doo if we ever get to that point.

Wake up Amerika. The clue phone is ringing. It's for YOU.

 

[jhco50]

My honest opinion is that if Obama gets a second term, it will be the beginning of the end of our country. I believe violence will break out shortly after his election and grow from there.

 

[NMGonzo]

I never find the deals at the gunshops that equal the deals on private transactions.

 

[Shadow 7D]

I have an issue only when it's the MAJOR issue, a guy come looking to buy a guy 'under the table' and keeps making a major issue, well, if he refuses to provide basic info like a DL to verify state of residence, or blows up at the request, well red flags are waving.

That said, I have sold guns 'No questions asked'
he showed me his DL, and cash, I handed the gun over and we parted ways, he didn't want a bill of sale, and I wasn't worried. But then I had just seen him buy from a FFL and get a GO, so... Someone comes at me looking for a 'untraceable gun' etc. I throw a C&R BB sheet at them. I don't have to sell, they don't have to buy.

 

[pharmer]

I have bought more than a few guns on 4473's and I have a CWP for the last 25 years. I'm on "the list." If the Constitution is suspended, we and the .gov are going to have more than guns to worry about. Joe

 

[dogtown tom]

jhco50 My honest opinion is that if Obama gets a second term, it will be the beginning of the end of our country. I believe violence will break out shortly after his election and grow from there.

Good grief.

 

[Averageman]

When someone tells me that, I often wonder if they have a felony somewhere in their past.

 

[Hossfly68]

On the issue of invading America, Isoroku Yamamoto said:
"...We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass."

I have no doubt that the outcome would be much the same if our own Government tried something like taking our guns. Average citizens and most of the military and law enforcement would fight the seizure, even if they don't think it'll ever happen now. I haven't done research, but I've heard of an organization called "The Promise Keepers" (or something like that) that I believe will stand up for the Constitution and our civil rights.

But if you'd like a good book on that very subject, read
"Enemies, Foreign & Domestic"

 

[Warp]

I don't think having the gun in your name on a 4473, or not, matters.

As it stands now in most of the country there is no registration, so they really have no idea what firearms you do or do not legally own or possess. There are some exceptions, of course, where states like Michigan and Pennsylvania have registration of pistols.

If they go around asking what you have openly visible, tell them about, others tell them about, etc will be what matters.

If push comes to shove and they show up en force to check, what you have there is what you have there, "on paper" or not.

In neither case does a 4473 matter.

I don't believe our government will ever try to confiscate all fire arms. If I were to purchace from a private party I would do so as the law allows.

But they HAVE

I was told by many shooter friends that they have plans in place to do some 'backyard' planting at O'dark thirty if there is a gun confiscation law passed.

They will do registration first, THEN confiscation. Burying them will only matter if:

1) They are not registered
2) Nobody will come looking for them (if buried on your property or somewhere else they would think to look...)
3) You actually find a need in the future worthy enough of taking the risk of digging them back up. (seems that needing to bury them is as good a reason as you will get, with advanced notice, to use them)

 

[Jeff F]

On the issue of invading America, Isoroku Yamamoto said:
"...We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass."

I have no doubt that the outcome would be much the same if our own Government tried something like taking our guns. Average citizens and most of the military and law enforcement would fight the seizure, even if they don't think it'll ever happen now. I haven't done research, but I've heard of an organization called "The Promise Keepers" (or something like that) that I believe will stand up for the Constitution and our civil rights.

But if you'd like a good book on that very subject, read
"Enemies, Foreign & Domestic"

You might have some groups of people stand up and fight and probably will have some LE and a lot in the military that would not want to be part of it, but in my experience the majority of lawful gun owner would just hand them over. I know we hear in the forums 'they will have to pry them from my cold dead fingers' and a lot of talk like that. but really? Most Americans just don't have the stomach for that kind of violence.

 

[shiftyer1]

I like to buy from private parties sometimes because the price is 80% of the time lower than at a store front.

I have also filled out several 4473's, they know I have guns. They know I have prchased either a hand gun or a longgun, they know when and where. If they want to know exactly what they would need to go to that store and ask. Depending on the filing system and electronics.........that could be ALOT of work.

IF they started confiscating guns it stands to reason that the guy with 50 hits in 20 years probably has a gun today. If you never buy over the counter.....you have 0 hits. I'm already screwed, and I can't even produce guns I bought 10 years ago.

Don't forget you need to buy ammo, they have a camara there. You could buy from a reloader......unless they catch him and he flips on you.

I still have faith that most folks in this country have any sense..........I think.

 

[Warp]

Don't forget you need to buy ammo, they have a camara there.

Now this is true tin foil hat territory.

 

[shiftyer1]

lol

 

[Fishslayer]

It is far more effective to regulate ammunition sales via taxation and restrictions on type of ammunition. If you can't buy or load ammunition, a gun is just a club.

It's already in place in several Kalifornistan cities. They tried to make it statewide but it got thrown out in the courts.

They are working on refinements as we speak.

And we already have registration in the People's Republik. All firearm sales must go through an FFL.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

ATF can not keep these records by law

Don't know the score on that one but the ATF is not always above doing whatever it wants.

 

[Warp]

ATF...law not allowing them to do something...just see Fast/Furious. Or, uh, how about Waco?

Those with power will do whatever the heck they want.

 

[Jim NE]

Not trying to be flippant, but if the government tries to confiscate guns in the manner the op suggested, getting proper documentation from citizens will be the least of their worries.

I have, however thought of this scenario. What are they going to do ? Arrest all the people who say they don't have documentation for guns they sold decades ago? Does the government actually still have a record of the first gun I bought as a teenager over 35 years ago? Or actually believe I still possess it? I rather doubt it.

On the other hand, folks may want to think twice about creating a paper trail for firearms they've inherited (informally) or purchased from private parties without documentation. I'm talking mostly about having them insured or keeping repair receipts.

It's hard to know just how totalitarian our government will end up being, if at all.