Tisas 9mm 1911 feeding issues.

[GooseGestapo]

After obtaining a Tisas 1911 .45 (black finish “Duty”). I decided to get a 9mm and elected to get the OD green M1911-A2 U.S. GI version.
I’m disappointed!
The .45 came with 2-magazines and has functioned flawlessly. It readily feeds my cast Lee 200gr SWC and is near match accurate.

The 9mm JAMS!

First, it has a full ramped barrel! Great I thought! Only 1-mag? Hmmm.
First round, furnished magazine, 124gr RMR Match Winner FMJ.
Drop the slide, only goes halfway, bullet tip caught at bottom of barrel ramp! Not good!


Tried different load, only 6 in magazine. 120gr Lee TC. Feeds. Fires ok. Load 9- jams just like the RMR.
Does the same thing with 115 and 124gr RMR MPR.
Mind you these loads feed fine through EVERY OTHER 9 I have or previously owned.

Tried some other magazines. Metal Form, Meggar, Wilson, S&W.

Tried seating the RMR MW deeper at 1.030” instead of 1.075”. Helped, but won’t feed wit more than 6rds in magazine, Just “catches” halfway up the ramp.

Suggestions?

 

[jmorris]

Try longer. I run 147’s @ 1.160”, in everything now because some of my 38 super based 9mm, 1911/2011 pistols only run right with longer OAL’s.

This probably won’t do it because you have tried a variety of mags but something worth knowing if you are into 9mm 1911’s. I have also had problems with all but one of a dozen metal form (iirc) 9mm 1911 mags.

When they stamped the flat it left a burr that turned out to be on the inside, once formed and the bullet would catch on the magazine (not even get to a firearm part to touch).

Right inside of the “feed ramp” portion on the magazine, where the tip of this screw driver is.



Rolled some sand paper around a rod, removed the burr and they all work now.

 

[Walkalong]

Not definitive, but may help.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9mm-1911-mags.807484/#post-10320838

 

[JTQ]

There certainly could be something wrong with your mag or gun. However, the first thing I'd do is load your mags up to full capacity and let them sit loaded for a week. Then give it another try.

 

[trackskippy]

I just picked up a slightly used Tisas Service in 9mm a little over a week ago, and have been having the same problem. Round nose dives into the ramp about 50% of the time, especially if I just use the slide stop to release the side. It works a little better if I slingshot it. If the gun loads, it will usually run through the mag without issue.

My mags are all MecGar that Ive had and been using with my Colt Combat Commander in 9mm. The Colt doesnt have any issue with the mags, and the more Ive been shooting it, Im thinking its a gun issue, and not a mag issue.

The Colt has a typical 1911 type barrel, without the added ramp. Watching both guns load from the mags, with the Colt, when the slide is released, the nose of the round kisses the polished "ramp" edge of the lower part of the barrel and goes pretty much right into the chamber. With the Tisas, it hits the ramp, but it can go two ways, up or down. Up it goes right in, down, its ties the gun up. The Colt really doesnt give the round the option, as there is no "down".

One other thing Ive been running into with the Tisas is, stoppages where the empty case is left in the chamber and the next round in the mag is pushed into it. At this point, Im not blaming the gun, as I normally shoot my reloads, and I load them to failure, and crappy extraction can be somewhat of an issue because of it. I havent run into this sort of stoppage very often with my Colt, or Glocks, SIG's, Berettas, ect but it has happened with the Tisas a couple of times each outing now. It might be the brass in the lot of ammo Im shooting is about done, or maybe the extractor on the Tisas needs a little tweaking, or maybe a bit of both, I dont know. I see how it goes with a different lot.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

The 9mm JAMS! First, it has a full ramped barrel! . . . bullet tip caught at bottom of barrel ramp! Not good!

The majority of 1911 ramped barrels work fine but what you're describing is not unusual with full ramped barrels. Due to the geometry of the pistol, the ramp cannot reach far enough down in the frame to reliably catch these nose diving rounds.

In addition to the advice to try seating bullets for a longer OAL (cartridge length) you can try dropping in an EGW higher magazine catch which may hold the magazine enough higher in the frame that the nose diving rounds strike the feed ramp instead of below it.

However, my first recommendation is to send it back to the mother ship to be fixed under warranty.

 

[Mot45acp]

Same issue, 9mm commander tisas. Nose diving. I've massaged the feed ramp some, and will be installing raised mag release to see if that helps.

I have more mags from every manufacturer I can think of. That's not the issue.

 

[Mot45acp]

I just installed the raised mag release. Hand cycling improved with the Wilsons. The Tripps still nose dive. And the Mecgars that wouldn't work at all now do with hand cycling, but they come in contact with the ejector.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Agreed that the mag release isn’t the issue. My Wilson mag has to be slapped to fully seat. The rest are held snug.
It just seems that the ramp angle is a bit abrupt.
Also, with the taper of the 9mm case, it allows the round to nose dive.

I tried some Winchester USA 147gr JHP. It does the same thing.

Reminds me why I abandoned the 1911 platform in the late ‘90’s for S&W Gen 3 for competition.
I’m going to pick up some factory RN FMJ to try this afternoon.
I really want to like this gun...

 

[trackskippy]

Have you tried slingshotting the slide vs using the stop? Mine seems to work a little better doing that. Still does it enough to be annoying though.

Most of what I shoot are my reloads, which are 124 grain FMJ's. I havent tried anything else, but they do run fine in all my other 9mm guns, so Im pretty sure its not the ammo.

As I said, once the gun is loaded, other than those occasional stoppages, it usually runs fine. Its just dealing with the reload thats frustrating.

I know what you mean about abandoning the platform. I did too at right about the same time, but I went with SIG's.
I still have a couple of other 1911's, in both 45 and 9mm, and they are still shot a good bit, but its mostly just to stay familiar with them. I havent carried one for over 20 years now. ;

 

[Steve in Allentown]

I just installed the raised mag release. . . . but they come in contact with the ejector.

Given manufacturing variances and tolerance stacking present in any mass production there will be instances where this will happen. Simply relieve the ejector appropriately to eliminate the contact.

As for the issue of not being able to easily seat a fully loaded magazine on a closed slide, this LINK may be of some help.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Try longer. I run 147’s @ 1.160”, in everything now because some of my 38 super based 9mm, 1911/2011 pistols only run right with longer OAL’s.

This probably won’t do it because you have tried a variety of mags but something worth knowing if you are into 9mm 1911’s. I have also had problems with all but one of a dozen metal form (iirc) 9mm 1911 mags. Quote].

Winner!, Winner! CHICKEN DINNER!

I dropped by an Academy Sports on my way to pick up some aircraft supplies for a 100hr inspection.
Bought 2-boxes of factory FMJ to try out. Success!
A box of Federal 124gr and a box of Remington 147gr FN FMJ.

With 9rds in the factory mag (stamped Meggar) both the 124 and 147gr cycle flawlessly.
I haven’t measured the Remington but the 124gr Federal measures 1.1485”

I’ll have to reset the seating stem on my seater die... Maybe even buy some different bullets...
I’ve had several 9mm 1911’s, but never this problem.

Thanks JMorris!

 

[trackskippy]

Glad to hear you got yours straightened out. Mine seems to want to continue to go in the other direction, and I think I might be onto the problem.

I took it out this morning and ran 100 rounds of factory WWB trough it, just to make sure it wasnt my reloads causing the problem, and it appears that they werent. I had just as much trouble with the Winchesters, and actually a bit more.

I did measure a handfull of the factory rounds and they all seemed to fall within 1.15 and 1.18 on OAL. My reloads seem to be pretty consistent at 1.14 - 1.16. The bullets on both the Winchester and my reloads have pretty much identical shape, although mine are 124 grain and the Winchesters are 115. I use a mix of whatever I find the cheapest when I buy in bulk, and the ones I usually go with, are either Everglades, RMR, and sometimes Hornady.

Right off the bat, the top round in the first mag nose dived into the ramp when I released the slide with the slide stop. The next couple fed OK when I went with the slingshot. I started taking the top round off the mags first, and going with 8 rounds in the mags, and those all seemed to load OK using the slide stop.

What changed a bit today, and pretty much confirmed it wasnt my worn out reloaded brass, was the number of double feed stoppages, with an empty case in the chamber. That started happening, sometimes a couple of times a mag, in what seemed like every other mag. I also started getting a lot of brass to the face, and random ejection all of a sudden to.

That got me thinking its the extractor tune, or lack of it, and after getting home and trying a tension test on it, think that might could be what the problem is, and it may also affect how the rounds feed from the mags. Both empty and loaded brass wouldnt stay in the slide with just the slightest little shake. And from what I was reading looking around, the extractor helps align and maintain the alignment of the round as its stripped from the mag.

I did re-tension the extractor, and now at least the cases dont just drop out. I may have to tweak it just a bit more. Im going to run back over in the next day or so and see if that is in fact the issue. I did load up a bunch of dummy proving rounds using the same brass and bullets I normally use, and didnt once have the top round on a fully loaded mag nosedive.

I swore off buying/carrying 1911's, especially the clones, about 20 years ago over this sort of foolishness, and this is only the second time I broke that in that time. The first was with a Springfield Defender a couple of years back. It was still a Springfield, and it wasnt around long either. From all the good reports on the Tisas's, I was hoping someone finally got their act together.

If it turns out its as simple as the extractor being the issue, that'll make me happy, but still, Im not happy. I am a bit bored though, so, this gives me something to do, and the dogs get to learn some new words.

 

[Skylerbone]

Glad the longer OAL is working out but…that didn’t fix the original issue, just masked it. I’d recommend looking at extractor tension and, failing that, sending it back.

 

[jmorris]

I did measure a handfull of the factory rounds and they all seemed to fall within 1.15 and 1.18 on OAL.

What ammunition was 1.18 OAL?

 

[trackskippy]

Winchester White Box.

 

[Mot45acp]

It's official. Mine is a lemon. To the point I am done with it.

No ammo works.
Different mags nothing works.
Polished feed ramp.
Raised mag catch.
Extractor tensioned.

All rounds nose dive into the feed ramp before coming in contact with extractor. I have 4 other 9mm 1911s that do not do this.

 

[Riomouse911]

It's official. Mine is a lemon. To the point I am done with it.

No ammo works.
Different mags nothing works.
Polished feed ramp.
Raised mag catch.
Extractor tensioned.

All rounds nose dive into the feed ramp before coming in contact with extractor. I have 4 other 9mm 1911s that do not do this.

That stinks. I have read so much positive about Tisas and the work they and Girsan have been doing with older designs (1911, Hi Power, etc.). The reports were saying these are good guns, but reading about these so-similar issues is very disappointing to me.

Stay safe.

 

[Twocanary]

Agree with the posters saying its an extractor issue. Theres the adage that starts with "teach a man to fish..." So I recommend getting a manual like Kuhnhausen's 45 colt shop manual (or something like) and a good replacement extractor (anything from Brownells will do). The hook on the extractor will tell what kind of files you will need. Why the investment? Because extractors on 1911's are wear items, imho, and the skill set will help keep your 1911's shooting good for its lifetime.

Edit: meant to say not anything from Brownells will do but, any brand from Brownells will do.

 

[lincen]

I have 10 different 1911’s, 6 in 45acp and 4 in 9mm. My first in 9mm was a Springfield Range Officer Compact. It had serious extraction issues. Purchased a new extractor and after two or three tries at slightly bending the new extractor it was 100%. If you get into filing the existing part, be sure you are looking at the recommendations for the 9mm part. One holds more on the rim and the other more in the groove. Ask me how I found out…….

 

[BWS]

As Walkalong,"not definitive but may help" or... a picture is worth sort of thing...

Brown&Sharpe 496 makes this all rather easy to put numbers on. The 3 biggies are 1- angle of repose. 2-rear height. 3-release point.

See if these pics work...

 

[GooseGestapo]

The problem as I see it is the taper of the 9mm cartridge in the magazine designed for the .38Super and .45acp which have minimal taper. Combined with a barrel ramp angle suited to the .45acp, the 9mm is tolerance critical.

 

[trackskippy]

Im thinking they would have been better off going with the original barrel design and skipped the ramp.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Im thinking they would have been better off going with the original barrel design and skipped the ramp.

Colt has never used a ramped barrel in any of their 1911s no matter the chambering. They use only standard barrels for 9mm, 9x23, .38 Super, 10mm, and .45. I don't recall ever hearing anything about Colt 1911s blowing up with any of these rounds. Ramped barrels came into being when competitors started hot rodding their handloads to way over SAMMI spec pressures in an attempt to make their compensators more effective. Occasionally, the unsupported case area would blow out resulting in the shooter catching all kinds of powder and bits of brass to his face hence the term "Super Face".

As for the geometry of a standard frame feed ramp, the 31.5 degree angle seems to work fine for all calibers.

One of the major problems with ramped barrels is that the ramp can't extend far enough down in the frame to enable it to catch and feed every nose-diving round from every magazine from every manufacturer. Some clever and skilled folks have been able to circumvent this issue by machining a ramp below the barrel ramp as shown below.

​

 

[trackskippy]

When mine has the the problem, it isnt because the ramp is too short, its because its there. The ramp catches the nose of the round and instead of guiding it up into the chamber, it goes down, and causes the stoppage.

I use the same mags in both my Colt and Tisas, and with the Colt, the rounds dont nose dive at all, and hit the lower edge of the barrel and straight into the chamber, with very little deflection.

I should get an idea here this morning if tweaking the extractor has changed anything. Seems like it did with some proving rounds, but that's not shooting the gun.

The other thing that kind of bugs me is, OAL. OAL shouldnt matter, and the gun should feed anything with a proper bullet, within the rounds acceptable OAL. I shouldnt have to fiddle with and tweak that. I expect all my ammo to work in all my guns chambered for it. If that is the issue, then the gun is gone just for that reason.