Todd Orr Bear Attack Update: Why he didn't shoot...

Status
Not open for further replies.
come on guys, this is a really great thread about a very misunderstood topic. can't you just ignore the op. i, for one, would like to hear more opinions on this bear attack.

murf
 
Red Wind you have been on this forum for years? Are you regarded as an effective member? Your numbers indicate you may want to extend a hand to new members. :)
 
OC-Trainer said:
Silly goose. Haven't you learned by now not to step to me with incomplete information?
I stopped what I am doing to reply, so I hope you actually take the time to read the WHOLE study. Which isn't mine, by the way, I merely posted it.

Here is a direct quote from the study that seems to be giving you fits at night:



I'll let you chew on that stat. Any other hair splitting you'll have to figure out for yourself.
Have a great weekend!
Click to expand...

Sorry Charlie but in Post #35 you did say it.

And I read BOTH studies.. And got ALL the facts.

See when he gave that '7-fold' he pointed to Table 4:

It says.. table 4:
"Logistic regression coefficients, standard errors (SE), odds ratios, and 95% confidence intervals from the highest ranked model (Akaike’s Information Criterion adjusted for small sample sizes (AIC c) weight ¼ 0.96) of firearm success as a function of bear, firearm, human, and spatio-temporal influences in Alaska, USA during 1883–2009"

which was total BULL wrapped in stats.

NOTE... In the OTHER study, about OC spray, there is NO table 4. Nothing about any reduction of effectiveness if the charge. Strange isn't it? Kind of like the researcher had an agenda.. like Bear Spray. Just like the omission of any failures in the Bear Spray study yet gives bunches of FIREARMS FAILURES.


So you are saying handguns ARE effective as Bear Spray???? Or even better than Bear Spray??? Chew on that this weekend OC.

Deaf
 
Last edited:
There has GOT to be some OC based forum out there where OC Trainer would be more at home.

I think he's forgotten he's on a gun forum. I'm not sure what his agenda is trying to convince gun enthusiasts that a spray is more effective than a gun in any SD situation, especially when the original article he linked specifically showed how a spray was ineffective.


I've only been here since earlier this year and he's been here since '14, so I don't know what distant previous posts from him have been like. But from what I've seen from him since I've been here, it screams troll.
 
murf said:
come on guys, this is a really great thread about a very misunderstood topic. can't you just ignore the op. i, for one, would like to hear more opinions on this bear attack.

murf
Click to expand...

Murf, I hope you aren't blaming me? I've already stated this thread is not about me, but about Orr's story. Certain members keep trying to make it about me. They are the ones who need to be ignored. They are clearly trying to derail the thread and get it locked.

If anyone wants to debate me on this subject matter, PM me. Don't derail the thread.
 
This thread gives insight into how you operate, OC-TRAINER. Basesless platitude, ad homenim, arguement from the negative, etc. What do you gain from this?
 
there were more details in the paper after the first encounter on sept 14. I read it when i was there but the article isn't online that i can find. Here is the most i found in the Madisonian about it.

http://www.madisoniannews.com/bozeman-man-survives-double-sow-bear-attack/

Another grizzly incident near Bear Creek

Madison County is not immune to bear activity. On Wednesday, Sept. 14, a conflict with a grizzly bear resulted in a possible wounded bear in the vicinity of the North Fork Bear Creek Trail, in Cameron.

The trail was closed for a few days while U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services, the Forest Service and FWP searched for the bear.

“We never determined if there was a wounded bear,” FWP game warden Shane Brozovich said.

The incident was reported by a hunting guide and three clients who encountered a sow and a cub on the trail. Brozovich said the hunters encountered the bears in a narrow canyon, and did what FWP recommends. They made noise, announced themselves and hollered “hey bear.”

The hunters reported the bear ran toward them and the hunting guide discharged a firearm in the direction of the bear.

here is another incident that i found in the Madisonian archives from 2011, good read

http://www.madisoniannews.com/hunte...tale-of-grizzly-attack-in-southern-gravellys/
 
Orcon said:
This thread gives insight into how you operate, OC-TRAINER. Basesless platitude, ad homenim, arguement from the negative, etc. What do you gain from this?
Click to expand...

You need to take a long, hard look in the mirror. You have three posts in this thread, all personal attacks on me that add nothing to the conversation.

So the question isn't what I'm doing here, it's why are you here? You brought nothing but negativity, with not a lick of anything positive to the thread at hand.
You have a problem with me, PM me and I'll deal with you there. Have respect for the other members and stop trying to poison this thread.
 
Orcon said:
Based on previous posts on this topic OC-Trainer is one of 3 things:
1. A bear
2. A purveyor of bear spray
3. A troll.

EDIT: Perhaps all three.



You also deliberately misquote studies to suit whatever it is that you want to convey. So, yeah less than meaningless.
Click to expand...

If you had a clue you'd know the answer really is None of the above

If you took time to read, you'd see he's been the only one to post complete independent 3rd party reports/documents.


Orcon said:
Troooooooll
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's time for you to look in the mirror.



Dog Soldier said:
Red Wind you have been on this forum for years? Are you regarded as an effective member? Your numbers indicate you may want to extend a hand to new members. :)
Click to expand...


Let's get something straight. The amount of time &/or the number of posts by a member is pretty meaningless.

What matters is the quality of contribution which includes being able to cite verifiable documentation in its entirety.


OC Trained has done that.

You and Orcon have not come close.

What many here, including you and Orcon, are doing is a combination of selectively reading, misreading, not reading, and misconstruing.

OC Trainer has never once said or alluded that pepper spray is the end all be all.


It's time for you two to back up your statements against OC with quotes and facts or be exposed as drivel spewers.
 
I will say this. That OC stops charges is great given that as Hererro notes, most charges are stopped anyway without the use of deterrents because they are false charges. So when it is claimed that OC or a firearm stopped a charge is quite interesting given the likelihood that the charge wasn't ever going to result in an attack on a human anyway.

A big part of the problem, as near as I can tell, is that researchers have trouble reconstructing actual events into manners that they can accurately categorize into neat little boxes to check off for comparative purposes. There are often numerous factors going on in these events that will heavily influence the outcomes, but that don't show up in the summary data.

You can draw whatever conclusions you like, but there is some very dubious data being used to derive numbers for tabulations.
 
There are 14 Constitutional carry states. Wyoming recognizes these citizens rights. None of the 14 states allows NR carry rights without their own resident state approving it first. :)
 
Dog Soldier said:
There are 14 Constitutional carry states. Wyoming recognizes these citizens rights. None of the 14 states allows NR carry rights without their own resident state approving it first. :)
Click to expand...

So what? 4 out of 5 dentist prefer Crest or Colgate to taffy.

Do you have something meaningful to contribute?
 
You can see that no permission from a home state is needed, if the individual is of proper age, and has no felony or mental restraints ,to legally carry OC or CC in the yellow permitless carry states.
 
No properly holstered requirements.


















This refers to having a permit issued in you resident state. Many residents in California were getting Utah permits and going to other states armed. Utah now requires you to have a resident state permit before they issue. Wyoming, Alaska etc require permits from your home state. Your point is ?
 
Maybe it's that new math thing I keep hearing about.... or my small phone screen... is there 14 listed as dog soldier claimed?
 
Dog Soldier said:
No properly holstered requirements.


















This refers to having a permit issued in you resident state. Many residents in California were getting Utah permits and going to other states armed. Utah now requires you to have a resident state permit before they issue. Wyoming, Alaska etc require permits from your home state. Your point is ?
Click to expand...

Show me where Alaska, Vermont, Arizona, etc. require a permit from my home state to OC or CC. I need one in Wyoming if I want to carry concealed. OC is just fine without a permit in Wyoming. The map above from opencarry. org shows you all that.

That is my point.
 
Just read the Arizona law. It is clear. I own property in Arizona you don't want get caught without a recognized permit from you resident state.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
  • Poll
Bear Attack Victim: I wish I had a gun
2 3 4
Replies
77
Views
4K
Robert
Robert
K
  • Locked
Bear Stopped With Pepper Spray
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
Keith
K
DocRock
  • Locked
Time for a bear thread
Replies
12
Views
758
Robert
Robert
G
  • Locked
he fumbled with his bear spray while his wife was being attacked
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
rudolf
R
R
  • Locked
Bear Defense Thoughts
Replies
14
Views
1K
goon
G
Back
Top