Too Hot or Not 45 acp

[dh1633pm]

Out of work til the 22nd. Spending the time sorting out things that belonged to my dad. He said before he passed he has 45acp ammo that he loaded too hot. He suggested shooting them in the winter. Found the box he was talking about. A 185 grain bullet behind 8.5 grains of Unique. My dad was a stickler for details, left excellent notes on everything. Have no doubt they are what he said. Max for this combo in my manual says 8.2. I can shoot these out an HK45 or a Sig227 if considered +P. Seems his reference might have been his Gold Cup. What say ye?

 

[Mostly Lead]

To hot is to hot. Pretty simple matter to pull them down and reload properly.

 

[tominboise]

The obvious solution is to buy a S&W 625 45ACP revolver and shoot them through that. I have two 1911's and two 625's. They are all great fun to shoot.

 

[LiveLife]

My rule for reloading is I NEVER shoot anyone else's reloads unless they allow me to shoot their reloads in THEIR guns. No exceptions.

Also I do not allow others to shoot my reloads unless they are with me shooting my guns. (Only exception I made to this rule was when my sister was shooting matches and she needed 40S&W 155/165 gr match rounds after taking my M&P40 with smoothed trigger that shot very well. She also shot my Glock 22 very well but M&P40 had small grip insert that fit her small hands better)

Because we are all human and by design, imperfect and can make mistakes.

During past 30 years, I received reloads from deceased members of friends/neighbors/coworkers and when I pulled them, found several powder charges that were way higher than published max or double charges. (And yes, many were claimed to have been seasoned/careful reloaders)

Since then, I reaffirmed my rule for never shooting someone else's reloads unless they allowed me to shoot reloads in their guns in their presence.

 

[Ru4real]

The note says to hot, not too hot. If it were me, I’d figure out if you can get a double charge 8.5 x 2 into a 45 ACP case. I’m pretty sure the answer is no. Then, I’d shoot a couple in a couple different guns.

Based on examination of that testing, and assuming OK, I’d shoot some over a chrono and some for groups and record the results for nostalgia, probably keeping one of the targets with details and “Dad” written on it.

 

[dh1633pm]

@LiveLife agree, but you never met my dad. A day before he died, he said go to my reloading room. Find the third blue book from the left on the top shelf And secure what’s in it. He gave me the count, that there were so many 10’s, so many 20’s, so many 50’s, and so many 100’s. The count was exact. Growing up i have always shot his reloads and him mine. I don’t question the loading, it’s if they are too hot or not. I also have his reloading log book. He logged everything.

 

[fxvr5]

It looks like a +P load, according to Alliant data, though with a different bullet (Speer GDHP). Lyman's load with a 185 gr. XTP shows a max of 7.8 grains of Unique with an OAL of 1.225.

 

[LiveLife]

Growing up i have always shot his reloads and him mine. I don’t question the loading

So then why did you ask for our opinion?

What say ye?

Majority of my 26 year work for state of CA involved investigating when death or fall/serious injury occurred and my job was to determine if any violation of local/state/federal laws/regulations had occured.

What I have noticed during my investigations as federally certified and state licensed surveyor was patients/residents/clients prior to arriving at various healthcare facilities (Whether walk-in clinic, ambulatory surgery/ER, short-term elective/emergent/rehab care or intermediate/transitional/long-term care, dialysis care to hospice care), they usually have higher cognitive/physical function until they don't and sometimes family blame the facility when drop in cognitive/physical function would have happened even if patient/resident/client stayed at home.

So while seasoned and careful reloaders like us could have loaded "safe" rounds while keeping careful notes for decades (Over a million pistol/rifle rounds for me past 30 years), there will come a day when our cognition and memory will drop in function and we could forget/make a mistake and not even know it ... Because we are all imperfect human beings and by design will make mistakes.

I used to have near photographic memory and only had to read anything once and had perfect recall (My job required on the spot recall of countless CA state H&S codes, Title 22 regs and applicable electrical/fire codes, federal CFRs in writing my citations) but as I approached retirement, memory began to fade to where I catch myself making mistakes and incorporated additional QC checks to my reloading process.

If you have any doubts, pull the rounds. If you don't, shoot 'em.

 

[Docendo Discimus]

Out of work til the 22nd. Spending the time sorting out things that belonged to my dad. He said before he passed he has 45acp ammo that he loaded too hot. He suggested shooting them in the winter. Found the box he was talking about. A 185 grain bullet behind 8.5 grains of Unique. My dad was a stickler for details, left excellent notes on everything. Have no doubt they are what he said. Max for this combo in my manual says 8.2. I can shoot these out an HK45 or a Sig227 if considered +P. Seems his reference might have been his Gold Cup. What say ye?

View attachment 1178260

It looks like he shot 4 and stopped. He sounds like a cautious guy. I would pull them apart and reuse everything.
The note says "too hot", not "hot".

 

[Charlie98]

Those are certainly in +P territory. Given your dad's meticulousness, I'd shoot them in a pistol that can handle +P and be done with it.

 

[243winxb]

Seems his reference might have been his Gold Cup.

Never for a GC or 1911. The 8.5 Unique would put the load in the area of 10.2 grs Blue Dot? Think of both loads as "Proof Loads"

Are you feeling lucky?

https://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

 

[Walkalong]

Are you feeling lucky?

No sir.

 

[Jim Watson]

Trust your Dad. "To" Hot is too hot. Pull 'em.

If you just must shoot them, use the H&K which is said to be "rated" up to .45 Super.

 

[Charlie98]

Found the box

I was thinking this was a larger quantity... if all you are looking at is one box, I'd probably be more inclined to pull them. Pulling bullets ranks right up there with trimming brass, so while I would be reluctant to do so, I have erred on the side of caution before. My recommendation to shoot them in a +P rated pistol is based on my experience with Unique, which I have found to be a very forgiving powder. Back Home, Years Ago, when I was young and indestructible, I pushed the limits of .45ACP and Unique. Unlike some powders, it's not as volatile at the upper limits of pressure, compared to something like TiteGroup or other faster powders. There is a funny story regarding that, but that's not the subject of this OP.

 

[Show Me]

Throw them away or shoot them. Gone is gone. I wouldn't consider shooting another person's reloads or use their chainsaw

 

[N555]

I used to load 185s that how with unique.
I don't recommend it. Burning them up on a cold outdoor range day doesn't seem like a bad idea.

I was thinking this was a larger quantity... if all you are looking at is one box, I'd probably be more inclined to pull them. Pulling bullets ranks right up there with trimming brass, so while I would be reluctant to do so, I have erred on the side of caution before. My recommendation to shoot them in a +P rated pistol is based on my experience with Unique, which I have found to be a very forgiving powder. Back Home, Years Ago, when I was young and indestructible, I pushed the limits of .45ACP and Unique. Unlike some powders, it's not as volatile at the upper limits of pressure, compared to something like TiteGroup or other faster powders. There is a funny story regarding that, but that's not the subject of this OP.

WST is another faster burning powder that you don't want to push to the max or over max. A start load or near the start load is where it's at.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Out of work til the 22nd. Spending the time sorting out things that belonged to my dad. He said before he passed he has 45acp ammo that he loaded too hot. He suggested shooting them in the winter. Found the box he was talking about. A 185 grain bullet behind 8.5 grains of Unique. My dad was a stickler for details, left excellent notes on everything. Have no doubt they are what he said. Max for this combo in my manual says 8.2. I can shoot these out an HK45 or a Sig227 if considered +P. Seems his reference might have been his Gold Cup. What say ye?

View attachment 1178260

No. That’s beyond Plus range. Sierra gives their 185gr - which in my opinion is one of the better bullets for a top +P load - a maximum of 7.8gr Unique. Lyman’s 48th is in the same ballpark for the 185gr Hornady XTP/HP. 8.5gr is more of a +P+ maximum charge.
I would pull them down but I tend towards being cautious.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I'd pull them down, rebuild them with whatever sane powder amount you want (like one of your dads proven recipes) and then go shoot them on his birthday!

 

[NapalmMan67]

Ya, if it's just the 46 units, the less than hour to pull and repack them to make sure you keep all your digits would be worth it in my book.

 

[dh1633pm]

i’ll pull them. My Speer Manual says a max load of 8.2. The Sierra Manual says 8.5 is max. Other manuals of course are varied. Did my home work before asking. Most recommended not shoot others reloads. Heck I. Was always helping my dad. I could have loaded these. Each makes their own choice. Like most, I like my hands and my face (meaning I like that I have a face, not that I got blessed with a good one). So caution is the name of the game. Understandably. Two many variables for this. Plus i have loads of other ammo to shoot and I did just that today. Shot some 230 hardball from the 227 and the HK45. Thanks everyone for their posting. I wanted your opinions. I got them. I sure do like the 227.

 

[fxvr5]

"Too hot" could mean several things. Too hot for the gun he was shooting, or too hot for any gun because their pressure exceeded safe limits. I suggest basing your decision on load data with respect to pressure.

Never for a GC or 1911. The 8.5 Unique would put the load in the area of 10.2 grs Blue Dot? Think of both loads as "Proof Loads"

What is so ominous about 10.2 gr of Blue Dot?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

i’ll pull them. My Speer Manual says a max load of 8.2. The Sierra Manual says 8.5 is max. Other manuals of course are varied. Did my home work before asking. Most recommended not shoot others reloads. Heck I. Was always helping my dad. I could have loaded these. Each makes their own choice. Like most, I like my hands and my face (meaning I like that I have a face, not that I got blessed with a good one). So caution is the name of the game. Understandably. Two many variables for this. Plus i have loads of other ammo to shoot and I did just that today. Shot some 230 hardball from the 227 and the HK45. Thanks everyone for their posting. I wanted your opinions. I got them. I sure do like the 227.

View attachment 1178322View attachment 1178323

Evidently,Sierra has revised their thinking on that:


That happens.

 

[243winxb]

What is so ominous about 10.2 gr of Blue Dot?

Possible gun damage. I shot 45acp -10.5 gr BlueDot with 208 gr cast lswc, WLP, out of a S&W 645. The slide speed was high & needed the extractor adjusted to feed correctly.
The factory recoil spring got kinked.
The fired brass showed signs of being extracted/ejected, while still fully expanded to the chamber.

Did not try a heavier recoil spring.

The S&W 645 is an all steel, well built gun.

 

[dh1633pm]

Sure does.

 

[StrykerByte.45]

My G30S is setup to shoot those. They're a little light if you ask me. It seems your dad's reloads are trustworthy.