jakemccoy
Member
GEM said:
Many men take pride in not having to read directions, not a good thing when it comes to firearms.
Too many unsafe NEW gun owners
- Thread starter tnieto2004
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Many men take pride in not having to read directions, not a good thing when it comes to firearms.
jakemccoy
Member
Yelling at someone at the range is a bad idea. You never know who you may be calling out. You may have run up on some dude who is letting off some steam after finding his wife dancing horizontally with another man. Friendly and discrete is the way to go. After all, your words are coming from a person (you) holding a loaded gun that's ready to go. Also, the newbie has a loaded gun too. If you're not prepared to back up your yelling with physical force (shooting in this case), then chill.
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Prince Yamato
Member
Maybe his gun was unloaded and he didn't think anything of pointing out a direction with it. You could just approach him with a calm, "hey, I know it's unloaded, but you'll get kicked off the range if they see you do something like that... it might look like you're trying to shoot someone". Which is actually true. Most people with bad gun skills aren't "stupid" in the careless sense, they were probably never taught to operate firearms.
woodybrighton
member
many years ago when I visited the states it always surprised me you could buy a rifle or handgun with zero instruction 
Or in fact you'd want to
.
trouble is gun safety isn't sexy so its a potential hard sell downside of liberty. Yes you can have a firearm with a minimum of restrictions. But that also means the majority of people can have a firearm with zero instruction or experience that has a definite downside
Or in fact you'd want to
.trouble is gun safety isn't sexy so its a potential hard sell downside of liberty. Yes you can have a firearm with a minimum of restrictions. But that also means the majority of people can have a firearm with zero instruction or experience that has a definite downside
If you see it and it bothers you, maybe you should do something about it.
It's up to the responsible gun owners to educate those who know no better. It's good for our cause and for society. Gently talk to them about what they are doing or report them to management immediately.
It's up to the responsible gun owners to educate those who know no better. It's good for our cause and for society. Gently talk to them about what they are doing or report them to management immediately.
My mother, who's as Anti-Gun as they come thinks along those lines. She's always saying "You just point it at the target and pull the trigger, where's the great skill in that?" I've thought about taking her to the range, but I don't think handing her a loaded gun is a good idea. One time she asked to see one of my guns and the first thing she did was point it at me and pull the trigger.... Good thing I know better then to hand her a loaded gun... When I asked what she would have done if it were loaded, she just said "I knew you'd never give me a loaded gun..." :banghead:
Man, this is a tough one. I've been struggling with this for a long time.
I don't know if the 2nd A is an absolute right or not. If its not, then who gets to decide where it applies and where it doesn't. If it is, then are we ready to defend a position that allows even convicted fellons the right to keep and bear arms once their "debt to society" has been fulfilled? Therein, I think, lies the real world crux of the matter. While debating absolute right in the abstract may be fun and challenging, aren't we ultimately talking about laws that will be decided by popular concensus, so to speak.
We are probably entering the most hostile firearms environment I've seen in my 60 years. While Heller may have decided that the 2nd A is an individual right they did so with a provision for reasonable restrictions. Once again, who gets to decide what's reasonable, the NRA or the Brady Bunch?
I'm not near smart enough to suggest an answer or policy but I am smart enough to understand that if we don't start policing from within, it will be done for us from without.
As suggested by others, I would not have a problem with a mandatory safety course required for purchase. I didn't have a problem with the one required for my CHP although that was more about legality than safety.
I realize this may violate the spirit and intent of the 2nd A, so to all you absolutists out there, sorry fellas, I used to be one of y'all.
I don't know if the 2nd A is an absolute right or not. If its not, then who gets to decide where it applies and where it doesn't. If it is, then are we ready to defend a position that allows even convicted fellons the right to keep and bear arms once their "debt to society" has been fulfilled? Therein, I think, lies the real world crux of the matter. While debating absolute right in the abstract may be fun and challenging, aren't we ultimately talking about laws that will be decided by popular concensus, so to speak.
We are probably entering the most hostile firearms environment I've seen in my 60 years. While Heller may have decided that the 2nd A is an individual right they did so with a provision for reasonable restrictions. Once again, who gets to decide what's reasonable, the NRA or the Brady Bunch?
I'm not near smart enough to suggest an answer or policy but I am smart enough to understand that if we don't start policing from within, it will be done for us from without.
As suggested by others, I would not have a problem with a mandatory safety course required for purchase. I didn't have a problem with the one required for my CHP although that was more about legality than safety.
I realize this may violate the spirit and intent of the 2nd A, so to all you absolutists out there, sorry fellas, I used to be one of y'all.
indoorsoccerfrea
Member
forgive me my ignorance, but i was under the impression that felons were not permitted handguns...
expvideo
Member
Take this as an opportunity to train new shooters! If you see someone being irresponsible, let them know. And while you're at it, offer to teach them proper stance, grip, sight picture, etc. This free instruction will be appreciated not only by the new gun owners, but also by the people that aren't accidentally killed by them. OK, that's a stretch, but you get my point.
ETA:
Also, if you have a vest, you might want to think about wearing that to the range for the next few months. Just as a safety precaution.
ETA:
Also, if you have a vest, you might want to think about wearing that to the range for the next few months. Just as a safety precaution.
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expvideo
Member
Nailed it. I agree with this statement 100%!
Marcus5aurelius
Member
I completely agree with you. A few weeks ago I posted one very similar to your experience. But the hardest part about it is how do we weed out those who do not maintain safety procedures that the majority of firearm owners abide by? A simple written test? Going through basic handling with an instructer watching over you before receiving a license? I am the last person who wants more restrictions but I feel that the few that do not abide by the rules ruin it for everyone and give the antis more of a basis for attack.
deadin
Member
I have found that absolute "newbies" are usually very receptive to a little help and training when they first come to the range as long as you don't "talk down" to them. The ones I really hate are the wise ass ones that think they know everything because they've been to an unsupervised range a few times and think that rules and safety are for the fools that choose to follow them.
New shooters need training.
There are going to be a lot more new shooters than just a year ago.
Perhaps we should offer to help introduce them to shooting safely by volunteering with the various ranges?
There are going to be a lot more new shooters than just a year ago.
Perhaps we should offer to help introduce them to shooting safely by volunteering with the various ranges?
I frequent two ranges. One is an outdoor range that is expensive by the hour if you don't buy a yearly membership. the other is an indoor range that requires a range safety card that you acquire by taking an oral test on their rules. A range officer is usually around the outdoor one, and someone is always keeping an eye on the indoor one. I guess I'm lucky that the idiots get dealt with in a quick fashion.
expvideo
Member
Excellant idea!
Indoorsoccerfrea:
You are right, of course. I was trying, poorly I guess, to show the two extremes of the argument. There are those who contend, convincingly at times, that once any restriction is placed on a Right, it is no longer a Right but a privilage. They believe that once a man has paid his debt, he should be restored to all protections defined in the Bill of Rights and should be allowed to bear arms. If he can't be trusted with those protections, he shouldn't be released. I was trying to acknowledge their position.
Hey, if I was smart and could express myself clearly, I wouldn't be driving a truck.
You are right, of course. I was trying, poorly I guess, to show the two extremes of the argument. There are those who contend, convincingly at times, that once any restriction is placed on a Right, it is no longer a Right but a privilage. They believe that once a man has paid his debt, he should be restored to all protections defined in the Bill of Rights and should be allowed to bear arms. If he can't be trusted with those protections, he shouldn't be released. I was trying to acknowledge their position.
Hey, if I was smart and could express myself clearly, I wouldn't be driving a truck.
Beagle-zebub
Member
Now see, if we just taught everyone gun safety in the 5th grade, this wouldn't be a problem!
The weird thing about that statement is that it is true.
The weird thing about that statement is that it is true.
Grizzly Adams
Member
I totally agree with you. I normally try to politely bring the issue to the offenders attention. Sometimes its appreciated, somtimes not. If there seems to a confrontation in the making, I see if anyone else noticed what happened and if they have anything to bring to the discussion and if not, I gather my gear and depart. Sometimes the offfenders are asked to leave.
K3
Member
Agreed on the newbies being receptive. In my experience, the worst ones are the guys who've been shooting a long time and say 'this is how I've always done it', 'it ain't caused a problem yet', and 'it's not loaded, so don't worry'.
Does a guy who says that honestly expect me to take his word? To trust a self-righteous know-it-all that I've never even met?
You are correct about alot of people buying guns and have no idea what to do with it. I fear we are going to hear some bad news from this buying craze due to the election. People have no idea about gun safety yet feel they need one before the president elect takes office.
There are a lot of people out there with a lack of knowledge on any given subject. There are also a lot of communities out there trying to draw more to the flock. Having said that, if you see someone being unsafe, or just someone who could use some good advice, I believe the best practice is to be polite and offer your services/ kindness/ advice/ wisdom.
People owning firearms is generally a good thing as long as they are law abiding citizens and intelligent enough to legally be an adult (there is such a thing as mental retardation).
Be a part of the solution, and not a part of the problem. IMO by being "reactive" to this situation you have allowed the problem to perpetuate. Instead try a "proactive" approach to the situation and impart knowledge to someone. Being proactive can cause a chain reaction that could be beneficial indefinately. You have a much greater impact on the world as whole when you are proactive, even if you do not realize it.
People owning firearms is generally a good thing as long as they are law abiding citizens and intelligent enough to legally be an adult (there is such a thing as mental retardation).
Be a part of the solution, and not a part of the problem. IMO by being "reactive" to this situation you have allowed the problem to perpetuate. Instead try a "proactive" approach to the situation and impart knowledge to someone. Being proactive can cause a chain reaction that could be beneficial indefinately. You have a much greater impact on the world as whole when you are proactive, even if you do not realize it.
In the '70's, one out of ten males had served in the military. Lots of common sense stuff in gun handling was demonstrated and known in the general public because of the military experience.
Now, one in a HUNDRED have military experience. The ignorance is there, it's not going away, and the solution is reflected in the mandatory CCW classes so many states have now.
New gun owners need classes as much as new drivers. Funny how that has disappeared from the high school curriculum, too.
A solution would be for gun clubs that run the ranges to have instruction days open to the public, free, and advertised. It can only improve membership roles, and more certified instructors in the community can't hurt. It will help in making the community aware that gun enthusiasts care about safety and aren't in it to make a buck.
It will also help channel the newbies into a safer environment, rather than the local option of shooting up a piece of abandoned mined land adjacent to a new housing development.
We do need more instruction available to new owners. We should be handing out schedules of instruction with every gun sale, and doing the job ourselves, before it becomes a mandatory requirement.
Now, one in a HUNDRED have military experience. The ignorance is there, it's not going away, and the solution is reflected in the mandatory CCW classes so many states have now.
New gun owners need classes as much as new drivers. Funny how that has disappeared from the high school curriculum, too.
A solution would be for gun clubs that run the ranges to have instruction days open to the public, free, and advertised. It can only improve membership roles, and more certified instructors in the community can't hurt. It will help in making the community aware that gun enthusiasts care about safety and aren't in it to make a buck.
It will also help channel the newbies into a safer environment, rather than the local option of shooting up a piece of abandoned mined land adjacent to a new housing development.
We do need more instruction available to new owners. We should be handing out schedules of instruction with every gun sale, and doing the job ourselves, before it becomes a mandatory requirement.
Treo
member
I said this before but it really didn't click. What I've seen that works really well is when a group of experienced shooters politely informs the new guy of the safety rules. I'm talking about on a completely unsupervised public range and I'm talking about " excuse me sir, that's not really acceptable behavior on this range..." as opposed to "Hey dumb@ss! watch where your pointing that thing!'
But hey if you're dumb enough to say something like that to an armed total stranger I really don't think we're going to be worrying about you long anyway
But hey if you're dumb enough to say something like that to an armed total stranger I really don't think we're going to be worrying about you long anyway
gregormeister
Member
I never have and never will shoot at a "public" range. my families personal 90 acres of woods in PA is where my range is and its where I don't have to worry about newbies and I trust myself pretty well with a firearm. Buy 1 acre of woods and you'll appreciate it I assure you.
The NRA should move on this, providing fliers to gunshops around the country, detailing free safety courses in the locality.
The NRA should recruit member volunteers in communities around the nation to go to ranges and put up big banners saying "NEW SHOOTERS SIGN UP HERE FOR FREE T-SHIRT". When the new shooters approach, they are informed that the t.shirts are free provided they take the time to go through a short, basic safety course. They can also throw out some application material to join the NRA while they are at it. Then they are taken to the line with their new guns and cool free t.shirts and given basic instructions... no more than 10 minutes of their time, and they take home reading material.
A organization as large as the NRA should be able to pull off something like that.
The NRA should recruit member volunteers in communities around the nation to go to ranges and put up big banners saying "NEW SHOOTERS SIGN UP HERE FOR FREE T-SHIRT". When the new shooters approach, they are informed that the t.shirts are free provided they take the time to go through a short, basic safety course. They can also throw out some application material to join the NRA while they are at it. Then they are taken to the line with their new guns and cool free t.shirts and given basic instructions... no more than 10 minutes of their time, and they take home reading material.
A organization as large as the NRA should be able to pull off something like that.
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