Too much crimp maybe???

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Smirak

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So, long story short, I set up my press (LnL AP) and started reloading my 40 loads. I haven't been able to get to a range yet to test them out (loaded like 5 of varying powder charges, about 20 total). My OCD kicked in and I doubted myself and decided to pull them so I could just redo them. Well, I bought a kinetic puller and was having a bear of a time getting them pulled...was only able to get 2 of them pulled before I just decided to let those loads just hang out until I could get a collet style puller and a single stage press (need a SS for bulge busting anyway). When I got them pulled, I noticed the pics below.

The first one is my poor quality control! Boy, would hate to have fired that one!
75E5E157-0E9B-4580-B764-30EBD329D2AC.jpg

The next one is of the actual pulled bullet. I'm pretty sure there is too much crimp there...the "crimped" area measures ~0.006 smaller than the rest of the bullet.
E1A6D6BC-84E6-454A-887A-98296D643EC1.jpg

So, that said, what's the proper amount of crimp? And how to set that on my Lee FCD?

Thanks!
Kevin
 
1. back it off.

2. seat the bullet with no crimp.

3. Then adjust the crimp die so the finished .40 S&W measures about .421" - .422" at the case mouth.

Like a factory load!!

rc
 
First: Get a case gauge for 40 or for now just use your barrel and drop them in. With only gravity they should drop in. Start this test with the knob on the factory crimp die backed off all the way and increase till they ALL drop in.
Second: You may not need a bulge buster. Try loading without it at first. Why make yourself more work than necessary. I've never used one and I load hundreds of 40 per week. I shoot them in many different guns including a match barreled 1911.
Third: You won't be able to pull those plated bullets with a collet puller. Either try the impact puller again or toss them.
Fourth: Learn to load without the factory crimp die. Just use a taper crimp die and it will not affect the bullet once its seated in the case like the factory crimp die does.
 
It should look something like this. All you want is to remove the bell, or a hair more.

attachment.php


Fourth: Learn to load without the factory crimp die.
Click to expand...

Agreed, learn to load without it, then experiment with it.
 
I seat and crimp in two separate operations for everything, and I do the crimping by "feel".

Unless all your brass is all the same headstamp and length, consistent crimps are not possible.

And I agree with sexybeast, the Lee FCD should not be used. If you think you need it, there's probably another way to address the problem.
 
Thanks for the replies all. The statement about learn to do without it...how do I go about doing that and removing the bell from my PTX "funnel" operation. The way I understand it is that I decap/resize in station 1, expand/powder drop in station 2, powder cop in station 3, seat in station 4, crimp in station 5. I know that I need to back off the FCD some, but are you suggesting I go about eliminating it all together or eliminating it in favor of the crimp die? Just a tad of confusion that I need cleared up!

Thanks again!!!
 
Yep, but it was also too much crimp. Probably need a bit more flare, and then a lighter crimp.
 
You have been give some good info. All you need to do is remove the bell/flair from your case mouth. The Lee FCD has its place in certain calibers like .38spl for roll crimps, and .223 for lite collet crimps, but not needed in .40s&w, 9mm, .45acp. I use Dillon dies for my .40 loads. St1- resize/deprime, St2-bell/powder, St3- seat, St4- Lite taper crimp. I also bell just enough to keep the cases from scraping my bullets.
 
If you've got to really crank on the loading handle for anything other than a resize (even then shouldn't take much) something is wrong.

Your crimp is way too much.

Just flare the cases to where a bullet will stay on top. Then crimp to get rid of the bell.

I had issues with my Hornady dies on my 40. I would put a bell on it, but the crimp die had a hard time getting rid of the flare. I ended up putting just the slightest bell on it so I couldn't even feel it and the bullet barely stayed on top. Then it was a minute adjustment for the crimp station. It was a learning process for sure. Never had dies so sensitive.
 
Smirak -
With all due respect, from the description of your die setup and problems, it looks as though you are trying to run before you learn to walk. I'd highly advise that you go back to the basic setup, with each die doing the minimal number of operations. In that way you can more easily learn the setup and adjustment at each station.

With a 5 station press, this should be easier than falling off a bar stool. Unfortunately, the addition of whiz-bang, hop-up accessories, like the powder cop, force you to combine multiple settings and adjustments onto the remaining die positions. This sounds easy until you understand that having 2 adjustments in 1 die is not twice as hard, it's actually more like 3 times harder. Thus your issue.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the powder cop. It's nice for those who understand how to make the more complicated adjustments necessary to facilitate its presence in the die line-up. But at this stage of your reloading career you may not be able to afford that luxury.

Get back to basics and have each die do one operation. When you master that, then you'll be able to make a smooth transition to more complicated setups.

All the best. ;)
 
The Lee FCD won't "do anything to the bullet," unless you're reloading lead. I prefer the method by which the FCD crimps and how the crimp is adjusted with the FCD. I use the FCD for all straightwall handgun loading.

As others have said, just crimp enough to remove the bell. That's easily accomplished with the FCD, if you'll read the instructions that came with the die.
 
Someone stated earlier you can't use a collet puller with plated bullets however I have pulled over 500 rounds of plated 9mm with an RCBS collet style bullet puller and the bullets were perfectly serviceable afterwords. It does not require a lot of pressure into the bullet to use it (if it does there is something else wrong).
 
Someone stated earlier you can't use a collet puller with plated bullets however I have pulled over 500 rounds of plated 9mm with an RCBS collet style bullet puller and the bullets were perfectly serviceable afterwords. It does not require a lot of pressure into the bullet to use it (if it does there is something else wrong
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Yeah that was me. Much more of a 40 bullet is in the case. It may be possible but with that crimp and ridge in the bullet I seriously doubt it.
Plated are much softer than FMJ and once the collet "bites" into the bullet I think it will just let go.
Also much more of a nine is protruding from the case and would be easier.
There's a chance, but not a good one.
 
Using your kinetic puller, what are you smacking it on? I've never had a problem pulling even roll crimped rounds. I broke a kinetic puller once when pulling a factory 45 acp that had some type of sealant or adhesive around the neck. Other than that, I smack it hard on either concrete or a 1/2" piece of steel. 2-3 whacks and they are out.

And what's the deal with that piece of brass that's missing part of the mouth? Did you inspect your brass before loading it?

As for crimp, only crimp enough to remove the bell, no more, no less. Remember, auto loading rimless cartridges head space on the mouth, so you don't want to reduce the diameter of the mouth, or serious problems can develop.

GS
 
As for crimp, only crimp enough to remove the bell, no more, no less
Click to expand...

Is this visible^^?

I can never A) see the bell, and obviously B) see if the bell has been removed.
Am I blind?



If there's a crimping thread, Im going to be on it posting the same ol questions that I always do...
 
I measure mine to make sure I have it where I want it (as in Walkalong's picture and rcmodel's description). Then write it in with the load data and crimp the rest.
 
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As for crimp, only crimp enough to remove the bell, no more, no less
Is this visible^^?
Click to expand...

I can never A) see the bell, and obviously B) see if the bell has been removed.
Am I blind?
Click to expand...

No, you are not blind. Correct taper crimp is one of the most delicate die settings in reloading. You typically are working with a crimp range of about .004-.005" (the diameter of a human hair). If you do not do these type ultra-fine settings for a living, then achieving the correct setting can be highly exasperating.

Generally speaking, you want to verify the TC setting with a caliper that reads in 1/1000ths of an inch. In the OP's example using 40S&W, the diagram in the manual shows a finished dimension on the case mouth of 0.423". That's a maximum dimension, and you need to be .002 to .004" smaller than that.

The best way to set the die is to make up several "test cartridges" consisting of a case and bullet only. Move the die body downward just a fraction of a turn at a time until the dimension is achieved. Realize that brass has "spring back" and it is impossible to get a case mouth to move .001 or .002 inches. So you can't move brass from .423 to .421"; while .426 to .421 might be possible. The human eye can't possibly see changes this small.

Once the die setting is properly achieved, all you'll need to do after that is to "spot check" your ammo.

Hope this helps! ;)
 
If you are using a progressive, another way to double check a taper crimp is to do only that operation by its self, where you can feel the resistance. There should be very little.

For calibers like .40, adjust the crimp die or the seater to completely remove the bell on the shortest cases, which will result in maybe .001 "crimp" on the longer ones.

I do not try to crimp to a predetermined number.
 
Measure the finished cartridge at the crimp / mouth, and just below to manage crimp depth. My eye sight has gone way south, so using the caliper is a must when I'm needing to identify small variations. And just to put things into proper perspective, I don't think there are very many people who can visibly identify .002" or so, use the caliper.

GS
 
Awesome. Thanks for your replies to my post fellas. I'm going to be a crimpologist before Im through here:)
 
fguffey:
The bullet hung on the side of the case and collapsed it.
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What he said! Crimping does not cause this.

When this happens one has to ask if there was enough bell on the case mouth to accept the bullet. Put enough bell on them so the bullet will start in and stand up straight while entering the seating die. If they tilt and go in crooked they may snag the rim and collapse it like your picture shows.

The crimp should just remove the bell and push the casing up tight to the bullet. It doesn't need to be any more that that. The crimp does not hold the bullet in place, neck tension does that.

If seating and crimping in one operation in a combo die:
I suggest seating to proper depth(no crimp) first then back off the seating punch and carefully adjust for the right amount of crimp. When you have this established, then run the shell up and bring the seating punch back down to touch, now you can seat and crimp in one operation.
 
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