Too much oil

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TreeDoc

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I recently acquired a Ruger Mark II, target. Beautiful blue, not a scratch on her, looked unfired to me. The guy I bought it from said it was a "jamamatic" and would not function correctly. hence the price of $200. I took it out to the range a few hours after the purchase, he was right, every other shot a jam, fail to eject, stove pipe, double feed. Back at the house, I disassembled it. I've never seen gunk like that, almost a varnish type on every thing, heavy oily, brown and black sludge. Cleaned everything and a light coat of oil, put back together. Runs like a sewing machine. I guess he just kept pouring oil it trying to make it run? Could the factory lube turn to varnish if left to long?
 
Within reason you can not "over oil" a gun and cause malfunctions that way. Except in the barrel bore/ chamber it could cause a big problem (!). Larry Vickers had a piece on YouTube about that. I think in this case he probably just kept squirting lube here and there and never properly cleaned it. His loss your gain.:D
 
I use no oil on my MK guns. I use a dry lube like Eezoxx or Hornady One Shot case lube on the bolt and that is it. My MKs usually run 1k rounds or better before I see a malfunction from being dirty.
 
You can definitely over oil a gun, although it's far better than not oiling one. Some lubes can gum up, especially if left on for long periods of time. Likely some crap oil and too much of it, combined with .22 LR crud. Who knows how long it went without cleaning before you cleaned it up good.

You did well, very well. :)
 
Petroleum based oils will gum up and varnish over time. Synthetics dont.
 
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Within reason you can not "over oil" a gun and cause malfunctions that way. Except in the barrel bore/ chamber it could cause a big problem (!). Larry Vickers had a piece on YouTube about that. I think in this case he probably just kept squirting lube here and there and never properly cleaned it. His loss your gain.:D
There's an AR on the YouTube, can't remember the name of the channel, that's been through, like, 30k rounds with nary a jam OR a cleaning, they just lube the bolt carrier every thousand rounds- you should see the buildup around the ejection port! :what:
 
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There's an AR on the YouTube, can't remember the name of the channel, that's been through 70k rounds without a jam OR a cleaning, they just lube the bolt carrier every thousand rounds- you should see the buildup around the ejection port! :what:
Haven't seen that one but do not disbelieve it at all.

Some gun designs are very tolerant in this regard. I think the Ruger pistols in this case, if they get too much gum and crud inside the receiver area, get impeded enough to cause stoppages.

Using a good synthetic lube as GRIZ22 has pointed out is the way to go.
 
I use Weapons Shield most of the time nowadays, and earlier this year I pulled out an AR15 that had not been shot in about a year and noticed that the lube had turned hard and sort of varnish looking. Not really bad, but it was sort of dry and sticky. I was not really happy about that...

Time to look for other lubes for longer term storage. I do love Weapon Shield as my every day lube however...
 
I'm sometimes amazed at the issues some people have with guns. I traded a Mark I target a few years ago and the guy told me several times to ONLY run CCI mini mags or target ammo through it because it would jam 2-3 times a magazine with cheap bulk ammo.

Well I've had about 4-5 bricks of cheap bulk ammo through it and haven't had a single jam except with Automatch, but to be fair Automatch jams in all of my .22's.

Of course that's another oddity, most guys love Automatch but I cuss every time I use it.
 
I think the amount and type of lubricant depends on the pistol. My Glocks will run with very little and probably with no oil. However, my Sig, no way without oil and or grease. The first time I fired a new Sig I was very surprised that it would almost stop functioning because it became very dry very quick. Now I run Sigs wet with both oil and grease.
 
You got a good deal. Usually .22's will fail to extract first, then fail to feed, them fail to fire. Some guns work fine if you keep dumping oil in them, some don't; the MkII doesn't. The difference between Larry Vickers and the guy you bought the MkII from is that Larry Vickers will periodically clean all the excess old lube out and replace it with new lube. Mr. Jamamatic just kept putting new lube in on top of old- well, the old becomes varnish, as you noted, and causes malfunctions.
 
The over lubrication myth goes way, way back. The US Army built over one million defectivevM1903's that later tests showed, fully 33% of them would blow in an over pressure situation. Many of these rifles blew with standard ammunition. Instead of the Army Ordnance Department admitting that they made structurally deficient rifles, the Army Ordnance Department blamed grease bullets. Many Armies were using greased bullets. The steel jacketed bullets of the era were hard on barrels so these bullets were coated and fired greased. Grease was also used to reduce fouling with cupronickel bullets. However, whenever a M1903 blew up with service ammunition, the Army could not admit that it might be due to a defective rifle or defective ammunition, it had to be do to something the shooters were doing, which was lubricating their bullets!

Since then, oil and grease have been a convenient scapegoat for anyone who wanted to wish away pressure problems that they created. You see this all the time, some reloader creates an overpressure round, and, it has to be due to grease or oil. The fact that the charge exceeds published data by 10% or more is totally ignored. Or if a defective firearm blows up, oil or grease is blamed, because the community believes this! Sort of like blaming witchcraft for problems.

There has been a century of gunwriter amplifications of this myth, it has expanded and developed a dogma. But for American's, it all starts with the Army Ordnance Bureau and their single heat treat M1903's, and the coverup they created.
 
I think the seller didn't want to strip and clean the gun because of the strip/reassembly fear so maybe he simply shot more oil into it thinking it would help. Oh well, his ignorance is your gain.
 
I'm not claiming they are wrong, but the video is mediocre as a "mythbuster" as most guns will fire 10 rounds just fine coming out dripping water, why would they expect dripping with oil to be any different? Firing 200 rounds or so without issues would be better :) Where is the exposure to dust, sand, etc.? I find excess lube and lots of shooting can lead to a black gritty "mud" inside the gun that sometimes causes failures -- 200 rounds per gun per session is pretty typical for me. I usually don't take them apart until I've had an issue, generally just a wipe down, swab of Hoppes with a pass or two of a bore snake and a few drops of Break-Free CLP on the moving bits.


The video also showed a good reason not to over lube -- nice Blast of oil to the face :)

I do tend to error on the side of a little extra as opposed to being too stingy with the lube.
 
I'll bet the previous owner thought that WD-40 was a gun lube.

THIS, and 22 rimfires are a dirty round. You need to clean the gun more often than center-fires. I have seen many good 22LRs
become jammed with powder and dirt, and the owner wanted to blame the gun, instead of himself.
 
I use Weapons Shield most of the time nowadays, and earlier this year I pulled out an AR15 that had not been shot in about a year and noticed that the lube had turned hard and sort of varnish looking. Not really bad, but it was sort of dry and sticky. I was not really happy about that...

Time to look for other lubes for longer term storage. I do love Weapon Shield as my every day lube however...
I have had a pistol locked up so tight I could not rack the slide. I'd sprayed it inside and out with Boeshield T9, let it drain, gently wiped the outside off, placed it in it's factory plastic box where it sat for several months. Boeshield is not really intended as a lube, but rather a protectant which is what I use it for.
 
I'm not claiming they are wrong, but the video is mediocre as a "mythbuster" as most guns will fire 10 rounds just fine coming out dripping water, why would they expect dripping with oil to be any different? Firing 200 rounds or so without issues would be better :) Where is the exposure to dust, sand, etc.? I find excess lube and lots of shooting can lead to a black gritty "mud" inside the gun that sometimes causes failures -- 200 rounds per gun per session is pretty typical for me. I usually don't take them apart until I've had an issue, generally just a wipe down, swab of Hoppes with a pass or two of a bore snake and a few drops of Break-Free CLP on the moving bits.

I regularly oil my 45 ACP rounds shooting Bullseye Pistol. I will put a drop on the third and the fifth in the stack, and if I am feeling froggy, add more through the port holes in the magazine. I will use a 2 oz bottle in 180 rounds. I can see oil vapor puffing out, probably through the muzzle, but some is pushed back through the action. The action is kept amazingly wet. Oil comes back out of the chamber onto the barrel hood, I regularly wipe the rails as excess cartridge oil lubricates the rails. Which is all to the good as I am firing minimum loads and want clean and lubricated slide rails. Bullseye shooters regularly oil their pistols during a match, you will see them dropping oil on the slide and then racking the slide. I am wiping my pistol off, however I do apply oil on the end of the barrel, where the barrel bushing rubs. Generally shooters lube their pistols in some fashion every ten rounds! I saw one National Champ pushing a cleaning rod down his barrel every ten rounds, trying to keep the barrel and chamber clean.

When I get home, bullet wax, powder, just wipes out. The barrel is amazingly clean, no lead or jacket fouling what so ever. I use motor oils, cheap Hoppes gun oils, oils solvate bullet wax and powder fouling. I am certain at some point it becomes gummy, but that will be way after a dry gun gums up.

The shooting community has forgotten, but all of the pre WW2 delayed blowback machine guns used oilers. I am of the opinion delayed blow back was used because the cyclic rate was higher and the part count was less. I am of the opinion that as long as the oiler was kept full, the guns ran more reliably because oil reduced chamber friction and kept powder fouling solvated.

It is messy if you over lubricate. I once shot around 1000 rounds of 308 Cavin in a FAL.The FAL is a rear locker, hard on brass, tends to cause case head separation, so I lubricated my cases, and they are came out perfect without stretching. I used stick wax as a lubricant, which was a mistake. Stick wax is used on saw blades because the stuff stays in place. I put rounds in a plastic bag, tossed in glumps of stick wax, and shake and baked the stuff together. I had glumps of stick wax on the cartridges, so much so that when I fired the rounds, it rained stick wax. I had stick wax in my hair, glasses, clothes, etc. Stick wax does not dissolve in much of anything either, so while it does exactly what is wanted:stick to a saw blade, it does not wash easily in hot water and soap. It did lubricate my cases.

Heavy lubrication is a mess, oil is blown everywhere, yes it will collect dirt if you are in the desert. In Arctic cold, oil and grease will make the action run sluggishly. But you know what, I am not rolling my rounds or my weapons in the dirt, nor am I shooting on an iceberg. If I ever have to do that, I will have a lot more things to worry about than an oily weapon.
 
Here are my Glocks all gooped up on gop.

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Yes they did fire

No -there were no malfunctions.
 
I'm not claiming they are wrong, but the video is mediocre as a "mythbuster" as most guns will fire 10 rounds just fine coming out dripping water, why would they expect dripping with oil to be any different?
You're probably right. You should let Larry and Dave know their ridiculous and over the top video on over lubrication is not over the top enough.

Their point is a good one. With the advent of the Glock, "overlubrication" has become a "thing" to such a point that people don't put enough lube on their guns for them to work properly. Is Vickers recommending you dunk your gun in a bucket of lube and shoot it? No. He's just saying to use enough lube, and it is unlikely you could put so much on the gun that it would be a problem.

As a for instance, this amount of lube would freak out some folks in the new, less lube is better club.



As would this one

https://grayguns.com/lubrication-of-sig-sauer-pistol-rails/

However, both are appropriate for those particular machines.
 
I got a good deal on a few firearms that just needed a little basic maintenance to get in good running condition.

A 35rem 336 that just needed cleaned
A 1100rem that just needed cleaned
A S&W M19 that just needed a new trigger return spring
A S&W M627 that just needed the main spring retention screw tightened down.

If someone isn't willing to take care of their gun, or dosent wasnt to be bothered by maintaining them I'm more than happy to give them a good home for cheap.
 
I'll bet the previous owner thought that WD-40 was a gun lube.


This was my thought as well. I know there is a lot of controversy about using wd40 as a cleaner/lube for firearms but my experience has been that it tends to leave a varnish like the op describes. It sounds like he may have tried a few other oils too.
 
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