Top 2 takeaways from FoF course last week

[strambo]

Hi Everyone,

I conducted my first Force on Force training course last week and wanted to share a couple things I noticed.

#1 Takeway-Scan!!!!! Make sure you are training to scan 360 deg. I'm not talking about the going through the motions range-ism Owl impression. I'm talking about actually turning around (muzzle control) and seeing what is behind you. Under stress (even the milder stress of FoF), you will be focused on the threat you are dealing with. You have got to break that "tunnel vision!"

In the more complex scenarios at the end, those who did scan didn't end up getting shot by any "sleepers" or accomplices. If they were aggressive enough in their scan, role player #2 just stayed put and decided to live to fight another day. Those who didn't scan, probably got a welt for their trouble, then addressed threat #2 (everyone "lives" in a properly run training scenario, students don't get "killed" for fun, besides "shot" doesn't automatically equal "dead").

Here is how I suggest to train to scan properly. I'll break it into 2 steps. Step #1 can be done anytime on any range in any training environment. Step 2 can be done at home dry-fire, in FoF training and at any informal shooting environment (home range, woods etc.)

Step 1: Lower the gun to a low ready position to get your own gun and arms out of the way because you just shot the threat in front of you to the ground (otherwise you'd still be shooting, moving to cover etc.). Ensure the threat in front of you is handled. Now, scan the front 180.

Step 2: if you are somewhere that will allow it, bring the gun back into a compressed high ready position (finger off trigger, I decock and/or go safety ON now), and physically turn around and look behind you. Dip the muzzle to not flag any non-hostile people as you do so.

The crank your neck while facing forward is just an ineffective "range-ism", leave it behind. Always practice step 1, practice steps 1-2 as much as possible (which is theoretically infinite) at home dry-fire and anytime where it would be allowed.

#2 Takeaway-Move!!!

Shoot while moving laterally. The vast majority, of even those with lots of prior defensive handgun training, shoot while standing still. If you are being charged by someone with a knife, or just in a gunfight, lateral movement can make a massive difference in the outcome. I know there is a line of thought that says to shoot then move to maximize shot placement. In a dynamic environment where the action is taking place at 15ft or less, I call BS on that theory. Bullets aren't magic, you had better be moving while shooting to avoid getting hacked or beaten before the perfect placement can matter.

Like scanning, you can practice shooting while moving to your heart's content at home dry fire or with airsoft and/or laser systems. In addition to when shooting in less-formal range environments.

Just some personal opinions and observations...ymmmv

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Good advice strambo. Glad to hear everything went well with the first class. How many ended up attending?

 

[strambo]

It was limited to 6 and full.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Last month I had to physically defend myself in the subway.
My wife and I were returning from Rockerfeller Center at about 9:30 when a young, very large and intoxicated man started to harass every woman on the train, including my wife.
We all moved away from him and it turned out he was behind me getting ready to exit the train at our stop.
As the doors opened I ushered him out with my hand and said, "After you sir".
He stepped out the door and then turned,blocked my way and said, Are you talking to me?"
I said that I was just being polite when he cocked his right fist for a punch.
I stepped into him while doing a parry block with my right hand which cleared him from the door and knocked him off balance.
Then he started reaching into his waistband as if going for weapon which caused me to pull my retired ID with my left hand, slip my Ruger .380 into my right hand and then inform him that he did not want to push this any further.
It took some more words- and some encouragement from a few on lookers-- before he headed my advice and walked away.
When it was all over I realized how vulnerable I would have been if he had an accomplice but I did keep changing positions so I was facing different angles --a la Southnarc.
I am glad that your class went well and you have given us something to consider.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Strambo, on your "moving" advice when you say laterally what do you mean? I'm only picturing parallel and perpendicular to the threat.

I only get to practice live fire drawing and moving on one of two friends farms once a month because my local indoor range doesn't offer anything like that to my knowledge. Generally the moving drills I practice are starting very close, drawing and shooting while moving straight back, Obviously if the threat has a gun I'm making it easier for them to hit me as well, but my main goal with that drill is to be creating distance as I'm shooting. Are you saying with your lateral movement to move left or right, or perpendicular to the threat? If so I'll have to add that.

 

[strambo]

Yes, by "lateral" I mean perpendicular. It makes it a lot harder for them to track you physically or with a weapon. Of all the ways we could move, I like straight back the least. In no particular order, it doesn't make it much harder to shoot you, you can't move backwards faster than they can move forwards, and you can't see where you are going (tripping in CQB is a deal-breaker).

It isn't a straight line movement though, you start out straight to the side and circle around. This gets you offline of their attack and gives you a nice view of the terrain and others by changing your perspective. It also breaks you out of the center of a multiple threat situation.

I also like an oblique movement to the front. It starts out getting you offline laterally while also increasing the pressure on them and I typically end with a near contact head shot. So from holstered gun: draw while moving at a forward 45 deg angle shooting from the hip position through extension. Arc inward towards them and finish with a head shot at full extension.

Finally, I like straight to the front as fast as I'm able for situations where I don't think it makes sense to try and draw. Just close and deliver a full-tilt strike knocking them head over heels.

 

[Jeff White]

Finally, I like straight to the front as fast as I'm able for situations where I don't think it makes sense to try and draw. Just close and deliver a full-tilt strike knocking them head over heels.

There is a lot to said for advancing on your attacker, puts them on the defensive and makes then have to react to you. Especially If it starts in close.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Ok that makes sense and sounds like great advice.

But those drills sound like starting at distance and moving TOWARD the threat. What about starting close and moving AWAY from the threat? Would you advise the same techniques or something different?

 

[strambo]

Yes, if moving away from the threat makes sense based on the situation and environment (moving to cover, towards an exit etc.), just reverse pattern A or B.

A little more info: The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. Therefore, the most effecient way to apply force is a straight line. There is a huge difference between A&B in the diagram and C. With A&B we are applying force with a projectile weapon. Our bullets are drawing a straight line from us to them no matter our position. With "C" we don't have a gun and are using our bodies. In this case, don't screw around with any wasted time on lateral movement, just close as fast as possible and end it.

Edit: I have a huge H2H bias. The closer it starts, the more likely I am to just end it with strikes and not bother with trying to get a gun out. I understand this is not the case for the vast majority of the population, so reversing "A" or "B" would work. Or better, deliver a good offhand strike while drawing then do pattern A or B away from them.

Edit 2: if you are right handed-moving to the right and rear while shooting is very hard! Moving left and to the rear is a lot easier. Option 2, shoot a couple shots during the lateral section of the pattern, then just sprint to the rear to wherever you are going...this is probably the winner.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Yes, if moving away from the threat makes sense based on the situation and environment (moving to cover, towards an exit etc.), just reverse pattern A or B.

A little more info: The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. Therefore, the most effecient way to apply force is a straight line. There is a huge difference between A&B in the diagram and C. With A&B we are applying force with a projectile weapon. Our bullets are drawing a straight line from us to them no matter our position. With "C" we don't have a gun and are using our bodies. In this case, don't screw around with any wasted time on lateral movement, just close as fast as possible and end it.

Edit: I have a huge H2H bias. The closer it starts, the more likely I am to just end it with strikes and not bother with trying to get a gun out. I understand this is not the case for the vast majority of the population, so reversing "A" or "B" would work. Or better, deliver a good offhand strike while drawing then do pattern A or B away from them.

I understand and agree. The drills I practice starting "up close" and backing away are generally started around 10ft. Even being well aware of the Tueller aspect of things, that is my personal "cut off" so to speak. At that distance I am going to draw as fast as I can and get shots on target while creating distance. Anything closer than that and I'm going HTH.

Realistically that's the worst possible scenario as it's not the greatest position to draw and it's just outside of being able to put immediate HTH strikes on target.

I will certainly heed your advice and start adding in lateral movement when creating distance.

 

[strambo]

Roger. At 10ft try pattern "A" I think it will suit you best in a general sense. It still creates distance, distance doesn't have to be backwards and you don't have to arc in and close, you can stay in a wide circle even increasing distance as you go.

If you had drawn and moved straight to the rear in the scenarios at my class, your lunch would get eaten, only about 1/2 of a second slower than standing still is all...

 

[fastbolt]

Glad you enjoyed your class and had the opportunity to be exposed to some ideas about movement and environmental awareness. Both physical actions, done consciously, have been found to help keep the mind working and not just spinning in reaction to a perceived threat.

Threat focus sounds fine on paper, until tunnel vision becomes a major sensory deficit problem and locks someone into losing awareness of maybe 340 degrees of the rest of the world around them, and any dynamic threats and non-threatening activities of which they ought to remain aware.

Movement may be restricted due to a confined space, and obviously the characteristics of any space, regardless of size. Learning just to move to within a "comfort zone" may not conform to the needs of the reality of the moment, nor the positioning or movement of an attacker (or attackers). Being able to move while remaining balanced is a big help, though, and this means remaining aware of impediments (curbs, even single stair steps, bodies, chairs, animals, etc). Being confined within a hallway of between parked cars can suddenly feel claustrophobic.

An issue inside buildings (whether commercial/retail or residential) is the threat of bullets perforating walls or objects which may serve as concealment, but not cover.

Interestingly, the lessons learned in FoF/Sim classes have a way of seeming to stick with someone, if you're lucky.

Congrats.

 

[TRX]

> What about starting close and moving AWAY from the threat?

At the monkey-reflex level, they're going to perceive it as fear+retreat, and their first reaction is going to be to move forward to press the advantage.

Good if you're trying to provoke an attack, not so good if you're trying to get out of the situation without anyone getting hurt.