Top Five Submachine Guns

[Ash]

Oh, the Japanese did have a subgun, the Type 100, they just made very few (around 30,000 or so) and were late providing it, being delivered to the army towards the end of 1942. It was evidently pretty decent, but the Nambu round was weak - 380ACP weak - and in such small quantities it did not contribute much.

Ash

 

[Roswell 1847]

Oh, the Japanese did have a subgun, the Type 100, they just made very few (around 30,000 or so)

A friend of mine had one of those. His brother was one of the officers incharge of evaluating captured enemy automatic weapons in WW2. They apparently let him keep the weapons sent to him because the collection included everything from Mauser schnelfuers to both the MP43 and STG44. He had both the Bergman MP18 and the later MP28 and Solothurns.
I'd have a hard time listing them all, but they were all full auto or selective fire. The old guy died back in the late 60's or early 70's I have no idea what happened to the collection, I never did get along with his son.
I'd have to say that viewing those old weapons is what really got me interested in gun collecting. They were all bloted to the wall along with a bunch of WW1 trophies like swords and ancient schutzen target rifles.which I guess the brother had brought back from that war before he became an expert on weaponry.

Interesting design it used an air chamber as a buffer to regulate rate of fire.

 

[Eric F]

tompson-first american smg
ppsh-russian smg that was most effective and easy to use
mp-40-reliable
m-3-first american atempt at a downsized smg also reliable and supressable
ump45-Return of the mighty 45acp

 

[akodo]

Yes, the Japanese did have one crappy SMG, I am saying what about a theoretical "Potent+Inexpensive+Plentiful" SMG. How does the presence/absence of a "PIP" SMG change things.

I right now suggest we put the Japanese Theoretical PIP SMG on the top of the list of "[SMGs] were most significant in warfare "

 

[Notch]

"+1 on the scant impact the sub machine gun has had on global warfare. At best it is an urban legend favored by novelists and with limited appeal as an entry weapon. Good pistols and ARs are more practical as both concealable and powerful respectively. MACs are junk, had one in 45acp (MAC-10) the Thompson or HK MP-5 are probably closest to something practical but only when the MP-5 is chambered for the 10MM which in selective fire mode gives it hundred yard usefulness."

I think the Russian army durring WW2 would strongly disagree, as well as the Germans who had to face thousands of foot soldiers armed with a ppsh. Not to mention that he SUB machine gun is what sparked interest in developing the modern "assault rifle".....

 

[slzy]

i would also note the effect the suomi made on the red army in the winter war,leading to why they had all those ppsh41s.

 

[stubbicatt]

PPSh 43, Thompson, MP40, MP5, AK74U

 

[ACP230]

I'd put the Thompson first because even the Russkies got some "Lend-Lease" Tommy Guns from Uncle Sam.

Next the STen because it was made in quantity when England needed a bunch of cheap, easy to produce, subguns.

Then the Suomi/PPsh because they both did a lot of damage to Finland and Russia's enemies.

Then the M3 Grease gun. I've shot a few, including one suppressed one. Possibly the easiest to control subgun ever made due to the slow rate of fire. Hell for stout too IMO.

The Italian M38/45 also had some neat features, as did the scarce U.S. subgun the UD42. Evidently the UD was mostly used by OSS types and irregulars fighting the Germans.

 

[Deanimator]

Oh, the Japanese did have a subgun, the Type 100, they just made very few (around 30,000 or so) and were late providing it, being delivered to the army towards the end of 1942. It was evidently pretty decent, but the Nambu round was weak - 380ACP weak - and in such small quantities it did not contribute much.

They had a few other guns even before that, mostly Bergmanns used by Navy Special Naval Landing Force troops.

 

[Ed DCB]

Exact!









More info here http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7811043/m/589109167/p/1

 

[Myles]

1. MP44 Sturmgewehr

#1 because it was not truly a submachinegun, but was truly the first "assault rifle" - an idea that Adolph Hitler was altogether against. With it's "compromise" 7.92 chambering, the design was called a submachinegun, so that it could be fielded by troops. You will find a great many modern military repeating long arms stem from this design.

2. Tie: British Sten /US M3 greasegun

Simple designs that streamlined production to get vast numbers of arms in the field, quickly.

3. Uzi

Uziel Gal's 9mm submachinegun was "the" one to beat for many years. It still sees action by the IDF.

4. Heckler & Koch MP5

For decades, it has been used by counterterrorist teams with great success, HK's design cannot be faulted.

5. Russian PP-19 Bizon

Just to be contrary and to showcase one of my favorites just for it's innovation would be this AK-derivative and it's helical under-barrel magazine. Even with the older technology, this would probably tie with the 5.7mm FN P90 for it's utility in CQB, while the P90 would excel as a mid-range PDW.

 

[woodybrighton]

1 Thompson although ridicoulously over built very popular
2 the mp40 the bad guys weapon of choice
3 the sten cheap but actually a better weapon than the mp40
4 sterling post war armed everybody who did'nt want an uzi or a grease gun almost unbreakable
5 MP5 as used by the SAS should have got shares from hk for the embassy job

 

[12Bravo20]

Ah the ol' M3 Grease Gun! I carried one while in Germany in 1992. It wasn't until late 92 that we had to turn in our 1911s and M3s to get the M9. I liked the M3.

 

[Cannonball888]

PPSh 43, Thompson, MP40, MP5, AK74U

AK74U is not a SMG. It's an assault rifle (carbine)

 

[woerm]

top 5 subguns

I've been reading this off and on for a bit

so here's my list

1)MP-18 too late to help Germans in WWI but helped to develop what later became the storm tactics/blitzkreig

direct descendants

MP-38/40, Lancashire (?)


2)Thompson M1a1
final military 'gangster gun' reliable, hard hitting and user friendly. Perhaps the gold standard subgun til the UZI Direct, descendant M3 Greasegun.

3)Sten Brit copy of the MP-40 that armed their efforts between Dunkirk and Normandy

4)Soumi/PPSH second only to Thompson is reliability

5)UZI, 9mm reliable, tough and maximized user friendly.

 

[BlindJustice]

Before I read the rest of the thread I would say

Thompson 1921 - nice hard hitting addition to any rifle squad.
Schmeiser MP 38/40
Uzi - native born Israeli supplemented arrmy troops
othewise armed with FALs
Tokarov PPsh - reliable and used by the enemy - high praise
Sten - cheap and mass produced and unlike the
USA M3 grease gun it worked

I think past WWII with the exception being the Uzi,
the Sub MG has been surpassed in usage & performance
by the Assault rifle.

 

[amprecon]

 

[1200 meters]

An unmentioned

I think the thread is on submachine guns, and no one has remembered the Swedish-K use by a lot of SF soldiers in Vietnam.

 

[glocking26]

1. uzi
2. uzi
3. uzi
4. uzi
5. uzl
Yes, I own one.
Mike

 

[amprecon]

The Swedish-K was to be #6

 

[Just Jim]

Thompson

MP40

Uzi

H&K MP5

H&K UMP 45

jj

 

[Cosmoline]

one of the officers incharge of evaluating captured enemy automatic weapons in WW2

There are very, very few military tasks I would have wanted to take on during WWII, but that there is one of them.

 

[foob]

After reading every post, all I can say is

All the Thompson has going for it is nationalism, it was heavy overcomplicated (Blish lock, anybody?) and hideously expensive.

Everybody picks the thompson but adds some disclaimer.

 

[GunTech]

The M1A1 Thomson dispensed with all the fancy and unnecessary. But it was still heavy and expensive and was replaced with the M3.

What you list as top five depends on your definition of 'top'.


Clearly, from a historical standpoint the Villar Perosa is on the list as the first true SMG, predating the Thompson by several years. The Bergman MP-18 probably deserves the title as first true SMG. The MP-38/40 and the Sten represent the innovation of mass produced, stamped SMGs and were made in huge numbers. One could argue that the PPSh also falls into this category

So I list:

Villar Perosa
Mp18
Thompson
MP-38/40
Sten


The Uzi was just a repackaging of a Czech design (CZ-23 IIRC), and had no new or innovative features. The much favored MP-5 was just a redesign of HK's center fire rifles to use the same delayed locking system. It actually had more recoil than traditional open-bolt, API SMGs and even HK eventually abandoned the design.

 

[hso]

I've got to agree. The Suomi SMG was probably used to greater battlefield effect than any other SMG.