Torn between 1911's

[smalls]

Guys Dan Wesson has raised the price in my area there isn't a Dan Wesson for less than $1600.

I'd like my 1911 to be $1200 or less. However, if I need to spend more for a high-quality pistol, I will do so

Emphasis added by me.

See also:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/97217554...e/Dan_Wesson_45_Heritage_45_ACP_Stainless.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/97899204...USA_RZ_45_Heritage_SS_45_ACP_Night_Sights.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/91015624...1-Style/DAN_WESSON_POINTMAN_GUARDIAN_DUCE.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/90307129...an_Wesson_RZ_45_Heritage_Razorback_45_ACP.htm

That's just ONE site I looked on. They can be found, and apparently quite easily for way under $1600

 

[PT92]

Wow I wish I had the cash on hand to even consider this territory. I haven't made a >$1k firearm purchase in 5+ years (but I do serious research now and select more frugal yet reliable products). No doubt I would love to pick up a Kimber though.

-Cheers

 

[KTXdm9]

If it were me with a $1200 budget, I would get a Springer Loaded and a couple cases of ammo for range time. Currently I own and frequently carry a Springer Mil-Spec.

But, to the OP's choices, Colt.

Q

Ding ding! OP, no interest in Ruger or SW?

 

[cwolfs69]

springfield arms or the kimber, only way to go.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I said I'm open to all suggestions, but I was mainly looking at the Colt XSE and the Colt Combat Elite.

Someone mentioned that the accuracy between the Colt XSE and Colt Combat Elite are the same. However, my understanding is that the Combat Elite has a NM barrel whereas the XSE does not so I would think that accuracy would be in favor of the Combat Elite. Also, I heard that the slide to frame fit of the XSE had some rattle in it. Can anyone validate or dismiss these rumors? Thanks.

 

[Stealth01]

Look, you said you really didn't have a budget... GOOD, I'm tired of "I want the best but I don't want to spend more than $XXX"! If you want the best then pay the bucks and buy a Wilson Combat! You don't believe there is a difference between a $1,200.00 1911 and a $3,000.00 1911... then you've never handeled a Wilson! I enloy and carry my Kimber Raptor Ultra but I love my Wilson's!! Go find one and fondle it!!

Kimber:


Wilson's:

 

[RickMD]

Also, I heard that the slide to frame fit of the XSE had some rattle in it.

Slide to frame fit has little or nothing to do with accuracy in a 1911 style handgun. The frame is merely a fire control mechanism. The barrel and its relationship to the slide determines accuracy.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I know that the slide to frame relationship does not dictate accuracy. However, I like a solid frame to slide relationship so that the pistol feels solid and is cosmetically appealing.

1. Does the XSE have a NM barrel? Is the Combat Elite more accurate?
2. How is the slide to frame fit in the XSE and Combat Elite?

 

[sleepyone]

good luck finding the XSE. I just went to the Fort Worth gun show and they only three alloy frame XSEs; one 5" and two 4.25".

All of my LGSs are out too and have none available to order from Colt. Gun Broker and Guns America have them, but I like to check my guns out before dropping a grand.

 

[RickMD]

However, I like a solid frame to slide relationship so that the pistol feels solid and is cosmetically appealing.

I think you would be best served by going to a LGS and evaluating them in person. Accuracy can vary as much between the same model of pistol from the same manufacturer as it can from pistols of different manufacturers. All these guns are mass produced and have built in tolerances. Some are more accurate than others. No manufacturer I know of guarantees a specific degree of accuracy unless it's one of the high end semi-custom makers and those are going to set you back at least $1000 - $2000 over your budget.

Any of the recommendations made by the previous posters are good, solid, moderately priced 1911's. A $1200 1911 isn't going to be a piece that 1911 aficionados ooh and awe over. If you've ever been to a highly competitive bullseye match you'd have see tack driving $5000+ 1911's that rattle like a bucket of bolts and look like they've been run over by a bulldozer. Apparently you're looking for a "barbeque gun" and the only way to select one to your liking is to visit a dealer and handle them.

 

[Skylerbone]

They're both nice pistols IMO. I can refute the rattle claim and no, the XSE does not have a NM barrel. The fit isn't as refined as a DW but then there's a $200+ gap between the two. I snapped a few pics of my XSE before having some work done, note there are multiple styles of beavertail that shipped with this (and other XSE) models.

 

[ms6852]

For the money you are talking about got Springfield. I have two and couldn't be happier.

 

[rikman]

With that budget ... I'd get a Sig 1911... Crazy bang for your buck! I have Les Baer,Wilson,SA PRO,Kimber Super Match and I'm very impressed with my Sig for under $1k.


Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

Apparently you're looking for a "barbeque gun" and the only way to select one to your liking is to visit a dealer and handle them.

What bizarre conclusion. He only asked what guns were available for a specific budget - your projecting the remainder based on your prejudices.

For $1200, there are a number of quality guns avaliable: Colt, STI, SIG, Smith and Wesson, Springfield, Dan Wesson (if you look carefully) and Kimber all make guns in that price range that are good quality and will work.

The difference you're going to find is some guns will have cast frames, while others will have forged frames. Some will have MIM parts while others won't. You can search the forums and find all of the arguments for and against cast / forged / MIM, etc.

The problem for you is finding out what you want and are willng to accept in how the gun is built, and if it's important to you, how it looks.

For the money, the Dan Wessons are still one of the best buys in a 1911. They use a forged frame, the parts that they make are bar stock, and the parts they buy are high quality like Brown, Greider, EGW.

The other side of the purchase is manufacturer support if you need it. Springfield and S&W are literally no questions asked - they'll email a shipping label and instructions. The other manufacturers are generally good, and will get the gun fixed - you can find all of the horror stories you want about any manufacturer but I wouldn't take that as anything but one person's experience with their gun and a manufacturer. This even includes Wilson Combat who are generally acknowledged as having the consistently best customer service of any gun manufacturer - which only points out that no one is perfect.

I'd look at all of the guns from the manufacturers recommended in this thread, and you'll find one that fits your budget and aesthetic preferences. I also wouldn't rule out less expensive 1911's like the Ruger, and guns made in the Phillipines.

If it was my $1200, I'd look at Springfield, Colt, S&W, STI, and SIG. If you can spend a little more money, I'd get a Dan Wesson Valor or VBOB, or look for a used Les Baer.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

Some XSE pistols do have national match fittings (for what its worth... CNC vs hadnfit) the Rail Gun and Combat Elite are both XSEs and NM. My Combat Elite BARELY beat out my XSE Combat Commander. I wouldnt get too hung up on the NM.

You will learn to appreciate a bit of rattle because it goes hand in hand with reliability.

 

[lono]

I have 6 1911s from 6 different makers. My most recent one is a Dan Wesson. I have to say that it is my favorite one. The Dan Wesson is the best 1911 at that price point IHMO.
Note: the gun was a little over $1400 but I could not believe how much better the DW was.

 

[Rock185]

giggity, the 1911s I own are the best. Seriously though, we are fortunate to have so many quality 1911 type pistols available. Just simply because I'm am old guy, I've had the opportunity to sample quite a few makes and models over a period of a lot of years. IMHO, Colts are most always a good choice. I have owned Governments, Gold Cups, Commanders and a Custom Shop "Special Combat Government". Since you mentioned slide-to-frame fit, all my Colts rattled a little or a lot, including my Special Combat Government. I have seen nothing that indicates Colts barrels, whether marked "NM" or not, are machined, fitted or perform any differently. Were I looking at Colts, I would not care one bit if they were marked NM or not. My experience with the Springfields ( a Trophy Match and a Loaded Target) have been mixed. I have had very good luck with the Kimbers. My Kimbers and Springfields were fitted more closely slide-to-frame than most all of my Colts. I have owned Les Baer, Wilson, Rock River and customs built on the Colt chassis. The Baers fit tighter than any other type I've owned. They do not rattle when in battery, but are probably seldom found, even used, for $1200.00 or less. The smoothest, most closely fitted 1911 type production pistol I've yet encountered is the Dan Wesson. The barrel/slide/frame fit, and overall smoothness is the best of any production 1911 type pistol I have ever handled. Try to handle a DW if possible. Mine doesn't rattle at all. I have just ordered another one. I never owned a DW before, and don't own stock in Dan Wesson, Honest. I'm just a long time 1911 guy that is very impresed with what DW is building...ymmv

 

[RickMD]

What bizarre conclusion. He only asked what guns were available for a specific budget - your projecting the remainder based on your prejudices.

Incorrect. The OP asked which of two model Colts were more accurate. The simple answer is there's no way to tell when you buy a stock gun out of the box and I believe that I clearly stated that. Secondly, the OP is apparently very, perhaps overly, concerned with slide to frame tolerances as referenced in his post. Since tight slide to frame tolerances have little to do with function or accuracy and indeed can degrade the former, I can only assume that he is looking more for aesthetics than function, hence the BBQ gun comment.

I've owned or own all of the guns that you've referenced and shot competitively for many years. The most accurate 1911 stock gun that I ever owned was a pre 70 Series Gold Cup National Match that rattled like the aforementioned bucket of bolts.

If I have a prejudice it is that I find only well functioning and accurate guns interesting.

 

[MTD]

The SR1911 is ~700/800 new and the DW Heritage is ~1200 new. They look, feel and shoot great.

 

[Skylerbone]

I find it a bit disconcerting that so many seem to equate close tolerances with reliability issues. Now taking a 1911 that suffers from poor geometry and welding up the rails certainly won't improve things but SA's Professional Model proved to plenty of people what a "tightly fit" pistol can do. Beyond that example it is noteworthy that most "BBQ" semi-custom and full house boutique customs from names such as WC, Ed Brown, Les Baer, Rogers Precision, Harrison Custom, etc. are dually noted as reliable and "tight".

To further the discussion about rattling Colts: the switch to CNC several years ago has allowed a tightening of tolerances. This ain't your father's Colt (I checked my dad's Colt and found mine was better fit-true story). There was zero in-battery barrel movement, zero vertical slide movement, negligible lateral slide movement. Barrel hood was over-cut (common) bushing was a slight interference fit, lower lug to slide stop engagement was fair. Replacement sights are available with the standard Novak Low-mount rear cut and both Dawson Precision and Novak offer front sights as well.

Aside from the poorly fit grip safety (replaced with a Baer) and a loose plunger tube (replaced with a Harrison HD) there was really nothing more needed for a very comfortable everyday shooter and I have no regrets in my purchase.

I certainly wouldn't shy away from Colt nor would I dismiss the likes of DW or STI as two (still) outstanding values. Lastly, a NM barrel means very little on a production pistol short of a semi-custom. Without correct fitment its accuracy potential cannot be achieved.

And for fun, I give you my father's Colt (the one on the left of course):

 

[MachIVshooter]

And for fun, I give you my father's Colt (the one on the left of course):

You mean the other left?

 

[funnelcake]

Last I checked Midway, they had two factory Colt, 5" replacement barrels listed. One marked NM, the other not & the same price. Since they're all narrow hood now, have the dimpled feed ramp, and are stainless - makes you wonder...

I bought one to replace a sewer pipe in an early post-war National Match pistol & it shoots great. All recent Colt barrels I've seen used lately have shot extremely well. Plenty of quality 1911's out there, but if you want a Colt, do not be dissuaded.

Funnel

 

[Skylerbone]

I did say for fun;-). Thanks M4S for correcting that, to the left is a CW9.

 

[Browns Fan]

I must agree that if I was looking for another 1911, Dan Wesson would be my first choice. Smith & Wesson E-series would be my second choice.

 

[orionengnr]

You will not be unhappy after buying a DW. I got rid of my Mimber after buying my first DW, there is no comparison.

Speak for yourself. After owning about 25 1911s, (including about eight Kimbers, all of which work just fine, thank you) I bought a Dan Wesson 10mm CBOB about two years ago.

I was, and am, very unhappy with the way this pistol performs. DW wanted nothing to do with it. I damn near got banned from the 1911 forum for relating my experiences and subsequently expressing my displeasure.

Almost two years later, after spending a good bit of money and with the help of a very good 1911-smith, this thing finally works as it should have.

I carry a Kimber daily and will never buy another DW 1911 or any other DW product.

I just bought an S&W E-series 1911. Two hundred rounds so far, perfect.