Torn

[itgoesboom]

I mentioned a few weeks ago that my wife and I had talked about me getting a new rifle, partly so that I could improve my marksmanship, and partly because of the liberals trying to ban our evil black (and brown) rifles.

My wife rejected the idea to purchase an AR, since the finances wouldn't allow me to purchase both the rifle and magazines, or extra ammo.

She agreed that if the political climate dictated, that I could get an AK varient.

While I am pretty happy about this, I am also fairly dissapointed. I would love to have a nice "evil assault rifle" , but at the same time, I would like something that is capable of more accuracy than an AK. Also, I currently have a SKS, so that is almost an EBR.

Today I was reading while the Senate was voting, and saw that Ted Kennedy was trying to ban all centerfire rifle ammo (not according to him, but that is the end result), and I really realized that the antis are never going to quit untill we are all unarmed.

For some reason, that didn't make me want to purchase an EBR, it made me want to purchase a good hunting rifle, something that would last a lifetime or more, and would be capable of better accuracy than the average EBR.

So I am left feeling confused. I have a budget of about $800 MAX, and I am not sure if I should get an AK, lots of mags and ammo, or a decent scoped rifle.

While the AK would send a good political message, the scoped rifle would be more accurate, and I could use that for improving my marksmanship.

I have also thought about an M-1 Garand, but I am unsure about them. 30.06 seems to be getting pretty pricey lately. Shot one a couple years back, and was pretty enamored with it, but I am not really sure. Sometimes I feel that my SKS is what the Garand should have been.

So I guess it comes down to this. All the talk about the Government deciding what I can and can't purchase makes me want to purchase something new.

What should I get?

I.G.B.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

A good bolt-action rifle like a Tikka T3 along with a quality scope in a common caliber like 30.06 or .308 will be far more useful in any situation. You can hunt with it, practice your marksmanship, and if martial law ever is declared, it will be a far more persuasive tool for registering your displeasure than an AK or a heavy classic rifle.

 

[eatatjoes]

go with the scoped boltgun. i feel the sks would make both the AK and the Garand kind of redundant. you have a mid-range autoloader, why get another one? (or a long-range autoloader?)

 

[swifter]

Another vote for a good scoped boltgun in your choice of cartridge. It'll teach you to shoot better, put food on the table, and in SHTF times, get you one of those eeevil popguns... and some magazines...

Tom

 

[El Rojo]

I say get the Garand, those things are not going to be around forever. Plus it seems the Hatians got a boatload somehow.

The vote you didn't have was all three.

 

[itgoesboom]

The vote you didn't have was all three.

Thats because I don't want to spend the next month sleeping in the dog kennel while my German Shepard cuddles up with my pillow.

I.G.B.

 

[El Rojo]

Only a month? You must be a newlywed to pass up that deal. And this is from a guy that has only been married for a year and a half.

 

[The_Antibubba]

I don't know if buying an AK really sends a message to the Govt. You get one because you want one.

That said, what are you going to do with the thing? As cool as an AK is, it isn't high on my list of must-haves. Neither is a "Black Rifle". I'm not Military background, and so I don't have the soldiering, infantry skills to fully take advantage of those weapons. If SHTF, I have to count on sneaking away, not fighting it out. You already have an SKS; aside from the hi-cap mags, you already have a battle rifle.

Garands are cool, but are they the most practical choice? If you are going to get a 30/06, which has excellent potential as a long range/hunting round, why not get a bolt action-a Springfield, if you are surplus inclined? From what I have read, the Mosin-Nagants are an inexpensive, accurate bolt action, and the round is very similar to 30/06.
A Hand-picked, new stock, scope, and some spam cans of ammo, and you are set.

If we continue to lose our firearm rights, the masses are going to continue to judge your guns by how they look. An SKS or M-N in a new, synthetic stock look like hunting rifles (which is, after all, all that they are, right?) Leverguns aren't threatening, right? A revolver is much less deadly than a teflon-coated black auto.

Etcetera, etcetera.

And, since you will need to put ammo into them, you should have reloading equipment and supplies for them, too. You don't need a progressive press, unless you want to shoot A LOT!! Even a hand press, or Lee loader in your caliber, will help when they finally outlaw our ammo.

So, my vote is, get a rugged, reliable bolt-action, and all the parts and supplies for it that you might ever need, and ammo. As uasge and law allows, top off and tune, or round out another category-are your handgun supplies ready? what do you need for your "assault-style" shotgun?

One good weapon that you know well and 1,000 rounds of ammo will serve you better than 20 "kewl" guns and a box of ammo for each. Choose your guns strategically.

 

[Kaylee]

I'd say it depends on why you're looking for a new rifle. Because you're afraid you won't be able to get them later?

A not-to-expensive AK and a stripped or complete AR lower and mags for each will still be less than $800 out the door. You *might* if you shop well even be able to get say a SAR-1 ($300), an AR stripped lower ($200), and a bare-bones Wallyworld scoped rifle set ($300) all within your budget. Heck, you could even skip the whole AK and get either a finished AK receiver for around $100 or a flat AK receiver stamping for $20 (and no 4473 for that one! )

This doesn't give you a single good, complete rifle, but it *does* give you three "starter sets" to work from in the event of future bans, since you'll already have the "legal gun" for each and can build out the remainder with unregistered parts. (Presuming, of course, they don't put paperwork requirements on *all* "assault weapon" parts, but as much of a logistical nightmare as that would be I don't see it happening soon. Even if they bring it into law you'll have a phase-in period you should be able to skip under). If you go this route, I'd look to completing the AK first, as I can see the inflow of those or the parts sets for same being stopped more easily by BATF fiat/Executive Order first, due to their foreign origin and more "evil" nature.


If instead you're in the mood for something that could be used to ah.... "register your displeasure" should things get seriously bad.... I'd say a scoped rifle or Tennyson Champi..rrmm.... T/C Contender would be ideal.

The M1 is cool, but they're not going anywhere. They *will* still be around for a while -- even if the ODCMP dries up, they'll still be on the secondary market. More expensive certainly, but then in 15 years you'll likely have more free $$$ than you do now as well, yes? So I'd say that's likely a wash.

Finally, if it's just for the "pleasure of owning it" -- I'd still vote for a nice bolt-action with nice glass. Personally, I find more "zen-like" fun in those things. But that's just personal preference I think.

 

[Matt Dillon]

Don't discount the AK as being inaccurate. With a PSO-1 4X24 scope ($79.00) on it, ours will shoot out the center of a 2" bullseye all day long. With prices still being fairly low, you could purchase an SAR-1 for >$300.00, get a Mosin Nagant M44 and a Mosin Nagant 91/30 (we have both and they are accurate and rugged, and ammo is dirt cheap @ $60.00/800 rounds of Czech silver tip) and you can mount a scout mount scope on the Mosins and have money left over for AK ammo and mags.

 

[varoadking]

**********My wife rejected the idea to purchase an AR**********

*****the Government deciding what I can and can't purchase*****

Looks like you're between a rock and a hard place. :banghead:

My condolences...

**********What should I get?**********

Considering you want to "send a good political message" - Have you considered a divorce lawyer?

 

[4v50 Gary]

Scoped rifle school. One is all you need.

BTW, I'm pretty impressed by how the poll is pretty much 33%, 33%, 34% right now.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

The future will be better. Save up for a nice bolt gun and some good glass. $800 is really pushing the ability to get both.

The AK is a similar platform as the SKS in some respects. Shoots the same ammo. It is also relatively inexpensive to acquire and maintain. If need be, I would sell the SKS and get a keeper AK.

Shooting accurately is just as important with iron sights as with glass. It could be said that it may be more important in some cases

 

[duckfoot]

Build the AR!!!!!

from http://www.rbprecision.com/id19.htm
stripped lower receiver (postban)$100
lower parts kit $55
buttstock kit $53
complete 16" A2 CAR middie upper (post ban) $375
shipping $15
FFL transfer say $20
lower build instructions from AR15.com and online help with build=free

total =$618

5, SA80 mags New from the www.ammoman.com $79
500 rds of wolf .223 55gr FMJ's from www.cheaperthandirt.com for around $75
kleen bore cleaning kit from www.cheaperthandirt.com for around $15


total =$169

for a grand total of =$787

$13 left over for slop or tools

 

[itgoesboom]

Varoadking,

My wife shot down the AR idea soley based on current finaces. She has said that if i want an AR in the future, and they are not banned legally, when finaces are better, i can get it.

Besides, I love my wife.

I.G.B.

 

[duckfoot]

AR15

If you build it.






























It will come.

 

[itgoesboom]

Thanks for the input so far everyone. Intresting, the first day the bolt action choice was the #1 choice, today its the AK.

But it still looks pretty divided, so more votes would be appreciated.

I'll answer the questions that were posed.

El Rojo, Actually, we have been married a little longer than you, but I am still not really wanting to spend a month living in the dog kennel. Maybe if I bought it in Feb, and it wasn't a leap year.

As to what else I own, I have my pistol needs covered pretty well. Bersa .380, XD-9Subcompact, 22/45, and a Blackhawk .357mag (actually, the FBI is in possesion of that since it was stolen, but it is supposed to be returned soon.) My shotgun needs are covered by my Mossberg 500. I would like to add a Springfield GI milspec, a Glock 17 and either a P3AT or a SP101 snub, but those are aways off, unfortunatly, finances won't allow them. Truth be told, I am stretching it a little purchasing a rifle at this point.

And my only rifle is the SKS, which is light, handy and fun, BUT, I want something more.

Even when I think about purchasing an AR kit, I can't decide to go that route. I know they are more accurate than an AK or Garand or SKS, but I can't stand the idea of a rifle that is accurate out to 600 yards, but is really lethal out only to 150 yards, with surplus ammo (max distance that M193 will tumble). I know, I know, shot placement, but realisticly, the AR just doesn't have the power to inspire confidence. The AK is accurate out to maybe 300 yards, and lethal the entire way, and the Garand even more so.

So realistically, this rifle will be used for shooting paper and the occasional soda cans (although that is what my SKS is for). With that said, I try to purchase firearms based on what real uses can be for them if they were ever needed.

For my pistols, that usually means home defense, defense while hiking and CCW. The 22/45 is the one that goes against that, but that was purchased to increase my abilities and give me more trigger time. My shotgun is setup for home defense.

So to me, a rifle means being able to effectivly deal with any situation that the pistols and shotgun are unable to handle.

So with that in mind, I am still very undecided.

I.G.B.

 

[Zeke Menuar]

Let's see $800

Entry level AR
one AK maybe two
The M1 Garand
AR-180B


If I was budgeting $800 I would look for a upper end AK or a AR 180B.

I have shot Garands. I like them, but they are spendy to load for. Something about the Garand gas system needing a slighty different 30-06 load than what is normally on the shelf.


ZM

 

[albanian]

For $800, you can get a bunch of good guns. Get your C&R FFL and you can get several SKSs, and several good bolt action rifles for $800.

An AK will be about as accurate as a SKS.

If you look at mil-surplus guns, you get a lot more for your money. You can get Mausers, Enfields, Schimt-Rubins, Mosin Nagants all for less than $100. Most of these guns will shoot as well as a M-1 Garand and some will shoot as well as a modern bolt action with a little work and a good scope.

I just bought 2 Yugo SKSs from AIM Surplus for $79.95 each delivered to my door because I have a C&R FFL. For $800, you could have bought 10 of them and still had money to buy a soda.

I think getting you C&R sends a better message than just buying a AK or AR. In the end, you should buy what you want at the time because if you are like me, you will end up going through phases and in time, you might cool on certain guns and warm up to others. It sounds like you want a M1 or a good scoped bolt action rifle. I wouldn't get the AK if you would rather have one of the others because most people start with the AK or AR phase and end up in the M1 or bolt action phase and not the other way around. It is rare to see an old guy with a plastic assult rifle but young people always seem to have them. Old guys like the claasics because after a lifetime of shooting, they have learned what is important to them.

 

[Paul D]

I.G.B,

I would recommend you getting a bolt gun in a fairly common caliber (i.e. 30-06, 308, or 223) and a decent scope. It will teach you patience and concentration: disciplines that will make you a superior marksman. Plus, the better you get the farther you can put the target out to challenge yourself. It may push your budget to the limit for a good setup, but then again it will force you make every one of those shots (which cost money!) count.

As far as the AK...it's fun to shoot but lousy to build a foundation for marksmanship. Reasons: 1) It's hard to enforce of the fundamentals of riflery when it is soooooo easy and cheap to pull the trigger without a second thought; 2) If you don't shop carefully, the inherent accuracy of that AK may be worse than yours (yikes!).

Get the bolt gun. There's nothing better than shooting tighter groups than the guy to the left and right of you at the range (especially if they spent more than $800 on their gear!)

Good Luck!

 

[Kar-el]

If you feel that gun grabbing liberals will stop grabbing our guns..... get the bolt action. I have a .270 Winchester with a BOSS that will shoot MOA if I can that day.

If you think the firearm filching fiends will not....... get the AK before you cannot. I have an Arsenal and a Romanian. I have no other guns that can get friends to smile as much when they shoot it.

I also have a Garand (darn, alliteration level running low) which as a piece of history I'm proud to own, and it's fun to shoot.

The moral of this story..... get all three but I'd worry first about which ones might not be available for you to purchase in the future. I'm a bit of a pessimist when it comes to our gun rights. (I do call and write my congressman-there's a good post here somewhere about that)

When I was young and married with no kids I wish I would have bought some of the preban AR's and AK's (and mags for pistols!)

 

[Black Snowman]

I was in a similar situation about 6 months ago. I had been doing some side work and decided to reward myself by getting another gun. I was going to get a "banned" rifle for political, rather than collector reasons. Then I thought that it was silly because I was letting them dictate what I bought because they banned it, rather than me getting what I really wanted.

What I really wanted was a fairly powerful and extremely accurate rifle on a budget. Something that was dead-accurate at the range to make punching paper about my technique but a powerful enough round to take game if I ever wanted to hunt with it.

What I ended up with was was a CZ 550 Varmit Laminated and I haven't regretted it a moment since. I love this rifle. I got it for just under $700 out the door with rings and tax leaving $100 for optics and ammo. I spent about $90 for a BSA Contender 3-12x40 and I'm pretty happy with the setup. I'm getting my loads tuned and if I every get the chance to take it shooting long range I'll likely upgrade the glass then.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Tikka T3, full-floating barrel, adjustable trigger, dead-nuts-accurate in .308 or 30.06: $475 at Sporstman's warehouse.

Decent quality scope: $300.

Sending political messages is peachy, but when the rubber meets the tarmac I'd rather have a highly functional long-range weapon than a political statement every time.