Total Round Count Death Match Part Deux

[High Planes Drifter]

For the second installment of "Total Round Count Death Match" I have chosen two classic carbines; the Marlin 336 chambered in .30-30WCF, and the Russian made SKS chambered in 7.62x39.


In the last faceoff (M1 Garand vs. AK 47) I didnt include any guidelines, so there were alot of questions and assumptions. I'll include guidelines this time.

Guidelines/rules are as follows:

1)Any part breakage which would render the firearm unable to operate normally would disqualify it from the faceoff.

2)Rifles are to use manufacturer recommended ammunition.

3)Rifles are to fire 250 rds, and allowed to cool for 15 minutes. Rifles will be fieldstriped & cleaned every 2000 rds.

Which rifle would be able to fire the most rounds before a part(s) breakage would render it inoperative?

 

[Chipperman]

The SKS is built like the proverbial brick outhouse.

Marlin 336s are great guns (I have one), but I think something there will break before the SKS will.

 

[siglite]

I agree with chipper. The SKS is so simple and strong. "Take block steel. Hit primer here. block steel move, new bullet. Da. Hit new primer!"

 

[one-shot-one]

my reasoning is heat kills so even with the ground rules, the firing and reloading time gives the marlin more cool down time.....

 

[jpwilly]

You would wear your hand out before you could complete the test with the Marlin!

 

[Hoppy590]

SKS by design would outlast the Marlin. but if you take an old surplus SKS and run it against a new Marlin. the end result will differ. the best would be to take either an unissued Yugo or a good condition russian. i donno if something like, a Norinco commercial model would be a good choice

 

[Slamfire]

The firing pin is about the weakest thing to a Marlin rifle. Maybe that is not true in general, but that is the only part I broke, due to dry firing. I have heard of problems with the lift lever http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Marlin94Fix.html, but this has not occurred in my rifles.

As for the Marlin being a weak design, I don't agree. I have read any number of posts by Cowboy action shooters who use Marlins (typically the earlier M1894 action) and shoot many thousands of rounds through the thing.

I have both a M1894 and a M336. They are built from forgings and solid wood, the designs are robust and proven themselves in the worst environments of North America.

To get a broken part, you might need to stock up on ammunition, for both!

 

[Ash]

My vote would be the Marlin. There are no moving parts at firing and the firer can be gentle with the action when operating it. My bet would be the Marlin. Of course, the SKS is a military arm and is built like a tank, but when you fire it, lots of things happen whereas when you fire the Marlin, much less happens.

But I could be wrong.

Ash

 

[High Planes Drifter]

I agree with pretty much everything you said Ash.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I vote for the Marlin. While I think it would be almost impossible to actually desroy either one with normal use, the SKS's are prone to gas piston failures. Not much can go wrong with the Marlin.

You would wear your hand out before you could complete the test with the Marlin!

That also occured to me.

 

[siglite]

...the SKS's are prone to gas piston failures...

For broad definitions of "prone" I assume? I've never ever seen that. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen it, never heard of it. But I can understand how it's theoretically possible.

 

[Pumpkinheaver]

Toss up.

 

[Eightball]

An SKS is built like a mountain--unbreakable if some otherwise astronomical force doesn't act upon it, or men with tools designed to fracture the thing.

The Marlin's action feels like trying to shift gears on a double-clutch dump-truck that was designed by lawyers.

Doesn't take too much thought, no matter how much of an "icon" a lawyered-up, 765,000-safety feature lever gun is, it's not really a match for a rifle that breaks down into 6 component parts for cleaning, and has been copied around the world by various nations.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

An SKS is built like a mountain--unbreakable if some otherwise astronomical force doesn't act upon it, or men with tools designed to fracture the thing.

The Marlin's action feels like trying to shift gears on a double-clutch dump-truck that was designed by lawyers.

Doesn't take too much thought, no matter how much of an "icon" a lawyered-up, 765,000-safety feature lever gun is, it's not really a match for a rifle that breaks down into 6 component parts for cleaning, and has been copied around the world by various nations.

My Marlin does'nt have a safety, and breaks down into 3 or 4 components




Hell, the damn thing doesnt even have an op rod or spring.

 

[roscoe]

As durable as those rifles are, this could be an expensive test. Better you than me.

 

[Ash]

The only lawyering I know of on the Marlin is that cross-bolt safety, which certainly does nothing to the action, merely sliding through the frame. As far as I know, the 336 is fundamentally unchanged since production began.

Ash

 

[ZeSpectre]

I was trying to picture how long this test would take.

 

[Slamfire]

As far as I know, the 336 is fundamentally unchanged since production began.

I have looked at the diagrams in Phil Sharpe's "Rifle in America" and in Brophy's "Marlin Firearms" Fundamentally the 336 has not changed much since the M1893. There are upgrades to the M1893, the M36 was the WWII version, but looking at parts diagrams, I can't tell any major design changes. The M336 major changes were the round bolt and enclosed back of the receiver. And that was 1948.

The Marlin action has over one century of field experience behind it, which shows that it is a fundamentally good and reliable action.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I have no idea how this test would play out; but in playing around with lever guns I notice they generally don't do heat well. They generally aren't designed for prolonged sustained fire (like 250 rounds at a time with 15 minute cool off periods). That makes me wonder if heat might not kill the Marlin first; but I imagine the Marlin would get very unpleasant to use long before you reached that point.

 

[Matt-J2]

I say the SKS will break first, but it'll do so at an overall higher round count.

 

[tnieto2004]

That is gonna be a lot of ammo!!