Touring with a gun in Chicago...

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This story should be almost funny to anyone who's ever spent any time in Chicago. Here, the cops are arresting middle-aged women with out-of state permits, at Sears Tower. These are the same cops who hear gunfire coming from Cabrini Green, on any given Friday night, and do absolutely nothing.
 
Tecumseh

why I'll be darned goned!

My sincere apology Tecumseh!


btw, they had to take her gun away because if some drunk Chicago police officer
decided to beat her up, she might be able to do something about it.
 
The law is wrong. Chicago created a criminal out of an honest citizen. This is the perfect opportunity to fight for our right to carry in Chicago. Depending on how she defends her self I would be willing to donate. Shouldn't we rally behind her? This occured in the 7th circuit. How do you search case law in that circuit?
 
I pitty thhose who jump to the defence of anybody who has a firearm and gets in trouble for doing something illegal with it..
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Listen up buddy. Do you have guns? I assume you do. Now imagine you are sitting home, guns in the safe. And then, one day, you're doing something illegal. You're a fellon because you HAVE a gun, at home. That's the problem I have with what happened. Some moron elected official signs a new law, and next thing you know, innocent people become criminals.

So "doing something illegal with it" is a joke. The ONLY illegal think to do with a gun is to shoot someone NOT in self defense. That's it. That should be the law. IL is broken, and I'm sorry for the woman. LAW is wrong and abusive, not the person who got in trouble.
 
I'm gonna second the idea that Daley may just want this to go away very quietly.

FWIW, most states that allow CCW also have rules on posting places where you can't carry. Since Illinois and Chicago have no carry, there are no signs.

The woman drove up here from home so, unless every "Welcome to Illinois" sign also has a "leave your guns at home", it's understandable that she might not be aware of the ridiculous laws we have here. I know it's hard to grasp but not everyone haunts gun boards like we all do and she may have no idea that there is even such a place as Packing.org.

With the Washington DC Court decision looming and the recent rightward lean of SCOTUS, Daley, the Brady bunch and the Mayor of DC may be deciding behind closed doors not to go to court because they stand a good chance of getting their butt whupped and having all of Daley's current gun bans thrown out as unconstitutional.

IMNSHO this woman's case would be an interesting legal confrontation. She's been permitted by her home state to carry a concealed weapon in areas where it is not prohibited but the minute she crosses a bridge on the Ohio river she becomes an instant felon.

That's like saying that the license plates issued to you by the state of Tennessee are not valid in the state of Illinois.
 
Hopefully the DA will exercise a bit of discretion in prosecution by either dropping the charges altogether or letting her plead out to a lesser (READ: misdemeanor) charge.
 
According to the article in the Memphis Commercial Appeal today, prosecutors decided to file misdemeanor rather than felony charges.

I searched for the story online so I could provide a link, but couldn't seem to find it.
 
I'll agree that ignorance of the law is not a defense. I'll also agree that if you're carrying, you have to figure you're going to set off a metal detector in a place that recently had an office shooting. Those being givens, the woman wasn't very attentive in her obeservations. Now, the fact she may have been looking for prohibition signs and didn't see any could be provided as something in her defense.

Regardless, she screwed up. If all she gets is a misdemeanor, then she's lucky. I agree the mayor is probably looking to keep this relatively quiet. If the scope of what this represents gets out, it will have the same effect as the realization that the cops can't protect you, and you should have every right to defend yourself. That realization has changed the laws in most states in the past 15 years, and it's been picking up pace. When the light of what rights have been handed away due to neglect gets out to the general populace, the traditional American values are what people want, and vote for.
Expose the lies as the communistic BS they are and people turn away from them.
 
Update from Todays Tribune.

Link to Article.

Sears Tower tourist caught with handgun
Tennessee woman thought pistol in purse legal, cops say

By Alexa Aguilar
Tribune staff reporter
Published July 6, 2007
A tourist from Tennessee was arrested at the Sears Tower on Thursday morning after she tried to visit the Skydeck with a loaded gun in her purse, police said.

Stephanie Warren, 56, of Memphis was waiting to see the Chicago skyline from the top of Chicago's tallest attraction when she placed her bag on the belt of the security machine, police said.

Inside the purse was a loaded .38-caliber revolver, police said.

Warren, whom a neighbor described as "responsible pillar of the community," is licensed to carry the gun in Tennessee, which allows its citizens to have concealed weapons.

"It didn't dawn on her that our state did not have the same gun laws as hers did," said police spokeswoman Monique Bond.

In Illinois, carrying a loaded weapon is against state law; Chicago also has an ordinance prohibiting it.

Police pulled her from the line of tourists waiting to go through the ground-floor metal detectors and later took her into custody, where she remained for most of the day. Her companion watched as the police car carrying Warren inside pulled away.

"There was no intent," he repeated to a police officer, then wondered aloud what he was going to do alone all day. The two had driven from Tennessee and are staying at a hotel in Michigan, Bond said.

No visitors were in any danger, and there was no interruption for the dozens of tourists awaiting the elevator ride to the Skydeck, Bond said. Police recommended that Warren be charged with a felony for unlawful use of a weapon, she said.

"We would like people to recognize how serious this is. ... We take our gun laws very seriously," Bond said.

Prosecutors instead decided to file misdemeanor charges, said John Gorman, spokesman for the Cook County state's attorney's office.

Warren has no criminal history and had no intent to harm anyone, he said.

Rodney Ware, who lives next to Warren in Memphis, described her as a great neighbor who volunteers in her community. Ware said he works in the security-conscious airline industry, so he understands that travelers must be aware of different state laws. But he was concerned about his neighbor's trouble so far from Memphis, he said.

"Stephanie just needs to get home," he said.

About 1.3 million tourists visit the Sears Tower annually. As one of the city's most notable landmarks, security at the building has increased substantially since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

A spokesman for the building management did not return a call seeking comment.

----------

[email protected]

Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune
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Another Update...

Link to Article.

Tourist with handgun arrested at Sears Tower
LOOP | Allegedly thought concealed weapons were OK

July 6, 2007
BY ANNIE SWEENEY Staff Reporter [email protected]
A Tennessee woman visiting the Sears Tower with her husband Thursday morning was caught with a loaded .38-caliber handgun in her purse, authorities said.
Stephanie Warren, 56, allegedly was stopped at the metal detectors at 9:30 a.m. by security personnel who then called police, said Chicago Police Department spokeswoman Monique Bond.

During her arrest, Warren told officers that Tennessee has conceal and carry laws, police said.

Authorities say she might have thought it was OK to carry the gun in Illinois as well.

Warren, of Memphis, is charged with one count each of unlawful use of a weapon, no firearm owner's identification card, and failure to register a handgun, all misdemeanors, police said.

She is slated for a hearing Sept. 6 in Misdemeanor Court, he said.

Security was tightened at the Sears Tower and Chicago's other landmark buildings in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
Click to expand...
 
Looks like she will be given misdemeanors? I wonder if I, as a hispanic young man, could get away with the same thing in Chicago? I suspect she may be doing SWAP (Sheriff's Work Alternative Program), paying a fine, or doing a few days in the county.

I really would like to see her charged with felonies. This might spur groups like the NRA, GOA, and SAF to start really pursuing ways to help those of us in Illinois. And partly because I know they would not be so lenient with me or some of my friends. Keep in mind that I would have no criminal intent to use the firearm but it would be understood that I knew it was illegal to carry a firearm in Illinois.

Similar to when that wheelchair bound lady in NYC used her gun to defend herself. Noone charged her with carrying a firearm illegally. We all know that if it had been us we would be sitting in jail.
 
Warren, of Memphis, is charged with one count each of unlawful use of a weapon, no firearm owner's identification card, and failure to register a handgun, all misdemeanors, police said.
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Charging her for not having an FOID is very interesting, because Illinois doesn't issue FOIDs to nonresidents generally. Failure to register a handgun sounds like a Chicago ordinance violation.
 
Originally posted by wdlsguy:Charging her for not having an FOID is very interesting, because Illinois doesn't issue FOIDs to nonresidents generally. Failure to register a handgun sounds like a Chicago ordinance violation.
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They could make the argument that she did apply for one. And that they do issue them to non-Illinois residents on occasion. They will not necessarily issue it but there still is that possibility would be their defense in my opinion.

As for the Chicago Ordinance violation, they dont register handguns for anyone but police and security guards. There is a process in place but they just stopped doing it for the public.
 
Ignorance of the law has never been an excuse.
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I don't think this is valid anymore. We've got tens of thousands of laws pertaining to the smallest parts on your car, to gun configurations, to what kind of toilets you can have in your home. And that doesn't even count the regulations that aren't technically laws but will land you in jail anyway. How many tens of thousands of pages are in the tax code alone?

Judges and lawyers have walls of law books so they can constantly look up statutes and precedents and they're supposed to be the experts. How in the heck are we supposed to know what we can and can't do? There are over 1000 things a cop can pull you over for in VT. I guarantee that that means everyone is breaking several laws every day, probably without even knowing it.

Claiming "ignorance isn't an excuse" assumes a free country where the laws that exist are meant simply to protect the majority of the people, not give the government a way around the 4th amendment.

Person walking by a crappy sculpture: "That is one gay sculpture."
Passing LEO: "That's hate speech, you're under arrest, now let's see what you have in your pockets. Oh a gun. We have an armed hatemonger here. That's a felony"
Hatemonger: I have a permit for that.
LEO: It becomes null and void when carried during the commission of hate speech as defined by the local selectboard and changed weekly based on current politically correct culture. You should have read the latest update.
Hatemonger: I don't even live here. How should I know?
LEO: Ignorance is no excuse. Just doing my job. Not my decision. Danger Will Robinson. Braaaaaainsssss!

All these laws are just an excuse to catch us doing the REALLY bad things that those in power think we're doing because we obviously can't be trusted to ourselves. Unfortunately, that pesky Constitution gets in the way of just locking us up like they want to.
 
Your example is stupid. Hate speech is protected under the 1st Amendment. While carrying the gun is supposed to be protected under the 2nd Amendment it is not. This has been seen many times and I dont believe a cop would arrest you for "hate speech". Have you any instances where that has happened? If so please start another thread.

And it is your responsibility to know the law. Yes there are many laws but the truth is that the people of Illinois voted to put these people in power to make the laws. If she did not know it is her fault for being irresponsible. I know its harsh but the truth is that she could have done research on the subject. I know if I carried my gun downtown and tried to enter the Sears Tower I would probably be charged with a felony. I am a 25 year old hispanic male, it would be prison for sure.
 
Excellent argument Tecumseh. Name calling, you've certainly swayed my opinion. Of course you completely missed the point.

My example was an illustration of how any ridiculous, innocuous law can be used as probable cause to go after what they really want to nail you for. I used the 1st and 2nd Amendments as examples. It could just as easily have been being pulled over for having a deoderizer hanging from your mirror when what they really want is to get you for not wearing seat belts. This HAS happened and always does.

A large portion of laws aren't ever enforced except when they can be used to manipulate the situation to the government's advantage. That is my issue with "ignorance is no excuse." There are too many laws to know or enforce properly and many of them are now just back doors used to persecute whoever is in the current spotlight. We've all seen the list of stupid laws from the 1800's that are still on the books about holding hands or which side of the street to walk on. If I was arrested for holding hands on vacation in Mississippi because my haircut irritated the local sheriff, am I at fault for being ignorant? Or what if I have a sticker on the windshield whose location violates Virginia law and a cop decides he doesn't like the opinion expressed by my bumper sticker? "Ignorance is no excuse" sounds good, but in reality it's a way of instituting a zero tolerance policy that relieves prosecutors and LEOs from having to make a decision based on the facts. It lumps people who intentionally cheat on their taxes with those who can't figure out the instructions. It treats an older tourist who has a gun to protect herself exactly like a gangbanger looking to shoot someone for wearing the wrong colors.

Granted, there has to be some common sense. Murder, theft, rape, etc..., but the bureaucratic, politically motivated details of where you're allowed to carry with a permit federally and state to state? BATF gives different answers depending on who you talk to. Even the people who are really interested on these forums can't agree. June Cleaver is supposed to have it figured out?
 
Sorry brother but there are just way too many laws on the books. There is no way you are going to know every individual one. And have you ever tried to read some of the laws??? The way that they are written I would have to hire an attorney just to explain it to me.

And just because Hellinois makes it the law doesnt make it right.

Illinois should start posting on there signs "Welcome to Illinois, leave your guns and your rights at home."
 
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