traded for old rifle need help identifying

[butcherboy]

i just traded one of my old .22's for an even older gun.

heres what i found on the receiver and barrel:

schweiz industrie Gesellschraft Nevhausen ( under wood on barrel)

35(s)T side of receiver

SA (S)

S in () is looks like a squiggled circle

SK.Y.
1938
54041

any help identifying would be great, and also what does it shoot calibar wise. i was told it shot 7.62

 

[unwise11]

You need to have a gunsmith look over this. it may not be safe to fire.
probable 7.62x45? or x54.
.308 was not around yet.

 

[Andy-Y]

Does it look like this?

 

[butcherboy]

andy-y: it looks more like the "NON STANDARD m/24 CARBINE" on that site. i couldnt find what round it fires.

Jdmoriss:i had a gunsmith look at it ( a friend of mine is one)
he took the wood off the stock and the barrel looks new, no pits on the outside ,still has heavy grease on it. the inside of the barrel is a little fury but no pits.
the guy i got it from had been shooting 7.62 nato rounds. within the last month.

i just want to know what rounds it is supposed to fire.

 

[Cosmoline]

You either have a very rare, very valuable rifle or you have the hacked and worthless remains of one.

the guy i got it from had been shooting 7.62 nato rounds. within the last month.

I hope not! If it was truly firing 7.62 NATO, then it has been hacked and should not be used. That's not a safe conversion, and would entail destroying the rifle's value because the barrel shank would have to be cut severely. But then again sometimes things get lost in translation and not everyone understands the difference between one kind of 7.62 and the other. If it is still 7.62x54R there is hope. Does it still have the military stock, military sights and a straight bolt? A simple chamber cast can tell very quickly if it is 54R or .308. Or you can see if the 54R brass fits it.

Can you post pics? In the mean time, do not so much as touch it with sandpaper or anything until it's been ID'd. The mere potential that it is a Civil Guard carbine is enough to make a collector's head just explode. ULTRA RARE is the word. There are guys who would trade their entire collections for one. The price can only be guessed at, but it's a heck of a lot.

still has heavy grease on it.

Was the grease a dark black color, like pitch? If so that's a great sign. that was the Civil Guard's trademark. I've seen it on the inside of their Mosins before. It's a very good sign nobody has screwed around with it since the last arsenal check. It should in no event be cleaned off. It isn't cosmoline, it's something else akin to pine tar.

But it may be that it's just short because some fool took a hacksaw to an M/24 long rifle with the SIG barrel. If so I hope they at least left it in 54R so you can have a fun shooter if nothing else.

 

[Sam Cade]

ummmmm.... Lord have mercy, please don't let this thing have been cut up.

 

[Sam Cade]

schweiz industrie Gesellschraft Nevhausen

that is Switzerland Industrial Company, Neuhausen.

 

[Andy-Y]

i just want to know what rounds it is supposed to fire

7.62x54r is what it SHOULD shoot.

ummmmm.... Lord have mercy, please don't let this thing have been cut up.

No doubt!

Can you post pics?

THIS!!!

 

[butcherboy]

i just took these pics hope they can help. i dont care if it is a collector am more concerned with is it safe to shoot. and can i deer hunt with it?

the rifle i traded it for was a ruger 10/22 that i was given.

 

[Jonny V]

Dude, your rifle looks different from other Mosins' so to answer your question, NO IT IS NOT SAFE TO SHOOT until it's been identified. You could be spending thousands of dollars every time you pull the trigger......

 

[Andy-Y]

That definitely looks like a Finn Mosin, not sure of the exact model. Have a gunsmith check that chamber because it was NOT originally chambered for 7.62x51 (.308). If it checks out you can most definitely hunt deer with it. I use a soviet M38 for deer hunting and it works very well. 7.62x54r is a Very capable round. That is a bad ass rifle, man.

 

[Cosmoline]

I believe you have an M28-30 with a SIG barrel, not an M24 carbine. It has the updated rear sight indicative of the 28-30. But it appears to be in good condition and is a valuable piece in its own right. I see no indication that it has been altered to .308 so I think whoever told you it was NATO was just confused. It should chamber 7.62x54R. Or technically 7.62x53R, the Finnish variation.

if you can get the measurements of the barrel that should tell us more. The 28-30 has a barrel of 27", while the M24 carbine has a barrel of just 24" or so.

NOTE: The barrel on the 28-30 is tightly bored at about .3085", so it is not an ideal rifle for shooting the .311" surplus ammo. However, the good news is you got ONE HECK OF A TRADE for a 10/22.

Probably not an ideal piece for a hunting rifle, though it can be handloaded and should give MOA accuracy with the right loads. It can bullseye deer. Or YOU CAN VERY EASILY trade this rifle, intact, for a scoped hunting rifle in the caliber of your choice. You did real good. Do not hack it, though, as you will hurt its value.

Here's a writeup on the M28-30. It was an integral weapon in the great Winter War of 1939, where the Civil Guard were often in the front lines against the Red Army.

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/MosinNagant-M2830rifle-introduction.asp

Value at recent completed GB auctions range from $382 to $450, but the SIG barrel is unusual for the 28-30 and you should look further into it before you sell or trade it. I suspect it may be a personal reserve M28 that a guardsman had upgraded to 28-30 status on his own dime. Only a few thousand of such rifles ever existed, and they were the tools of the finest marksmen. If you go to the collector's forum here they can nail it down for you:

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?3-The-Collector-s-Forum-Mosin-Nagant-HQ

If you explain your situation I also have no doubt you can trade it off for a nice scoped hunting rifle without problem. That's a collector's item you have. A true piece of military history. A rifle of white death as the soviets called them.

Check out this ad, touting the "new barrel of domestic steel." Your barrel is SIG steel, which is absolute top-notch obviously. The fact that it's on there is of real interest, but I don't know enough to say what impact it would have on the price. Ask the forum gurus on the gunboards, they'll know.

 

[butcherboy]

i just measured. i measured from the muzzle to the front of the rear sight.where the wood buts up to the rear sight, and got 22inches. im not interested in selling it just yet, would love to have it for a little while as a conversation piece. mybuddy wanted to have it drilled and tapped for a scope. there is no way im doing that.

 

[butcherboy]

it looks just like the M28-30 just with a shorter barrel

 

[cleardiddion]

Why don't I ever get that lucky?

You made one hell of a trade. Honestly, for something like that I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

[unwise11]

Sell it, odds are it will bring in the monies.
then you can buy a rifle more enjoyable to use?

 

[butcherboy]

JDMorris: i already have a .243 and .30/30 that are in excellent condition that work fine for what i hunt in ny ( deer and black bear) i just wanted this for the collector value and the fact that it shoots is a bonus.

 

[52grain]

So if I understand what is being said above, it is a finish mosin, must likely chambered in 7.62x53R, but with a SIG barrel?

 

[Cosmoline]

An M28-30 carbine? That would be wild. Where are you measuring the barrel from?

Anyone who drills and taps this beauty is going to special hell. LOL

 

[butcherboy]

Cosmoline: i m measuring from the muzzle end to the front of the rear sight base) or where the wood butts up to the sight base.

if there is another way please let me know.

 

[7.62 Nato]

Cosmoline: i m measuring from the muzzle end to the front of the rear sight base) or where the wood butts up to the sight base.

if there is another way please let me know.

With the chamber empty and the bolt closed, insert a rod into the bore from the muzzle. When the rod touches the bolt face mark the rod at the muzzle. Remove the rod and measure the length to the mark and you have the barrel length.

 

[Onmilo]

Sig produced some of the barrels used on the Finn 28/30 rifles.
It isn't a mystery.
When in doubt have a chamber cast made but the rifle should be in 7.62X54 Russian rimmed.

 

[butcherboy]

7.62 Nato:i measured the way you said: its just shy of 27 3/4 inches.

can i use Break Free CLP to clean it or waht would anyone suggest. i boresnaked it with Hoppes and got a lot of stuff out.

 

[schnarrgj]

+1 for Cosmoline. Another good site for identification is http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinIDII.htm. This page has the M28-30 a little over half way down the page. As stated above, it is a valuable rifle. There are a lot of collectors who would love the rifle if you ever decide to sell it. The Finn's rifles are known for their accuracy.

The 7.62x54r makes an excellent deer round. My sons and I have taken a number of deer with the M44 and 91-30.

 

[butcherboy]

schnarrgj: great link. according to the site i also have a Finnish M28 in my possession. i was storing the guns for the guy i traded with. the only thing with the Finnish is it has a major pitting on the barrel ( under the wood stock) he doesn't want to sell or trade that one.