Trading for "NIB"

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I'm in the process of a gun trade on another forum. The other person is putting a lot of emphasis on their gun being "NIB" while mine is Used. I'm curious if anyone else cares about the concept of NIB from anyone other than a shop?

To me it makes no difference. No gun has an odometer to prove it has never been fired, and since it was test fired at the factory one could probably carefully run a few rounds through it and it wouldn't look any different. I'm not accusing this person of being dishonest by any means, just speaking on general terms.

Also "NIB" or not, I received it used in the eye of the manufactuer. I don't qualify for the warranty and obviously there's not a gunshop who might try to make it right if I have problems.

What are your opinions?
 
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Factory test firing aside, buying second hand from an individual is not NIB, it is buying used in like new condition.

Another product example would be a car. Buy a car with 1 mile on it and drive it off the lot. Your car is now used and valued less than the identical car still parked on the lot that has 53 test driven miles on it.
 
There are some common grading guidelines out there, and I don't know why sellers don't want to utilize these (which is often a flag tome). The terms NIB, ANIB and used get thrown about a bit. To me, a good standard for NIB would be unused and unfired, 100% NRA condition (except at the factory). Unless following the NRA grading guidelines, ANIB sometimes gets a little fuzzy (a little storage wear? Maybe fired once or twice .... that's a slippery slope towards "used").

NEW: Not previously sold at retail, in same condition as current factory production.

PERFECT: Or ANIB. In New condition in every respect.

EXCELLENT: New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges).

VERY GOOD: In perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.

GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.

FAIR: In safe working condition but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts or adjustments which should be indicated in advertisement, no rust, but may have corrosion pits which do not render article unsafe or inoperable.


I'm always amused how sometimes the firearms biz/hobby has different thought processes than other commodities. I guess one common area might be new vs. used cards... A new car is....well ... new. A used car has been preowned, driven, etc. Then the gray area is the dealer's or demo car. It's been driven and used a bit, but never transfered to from the dealer to a buyer, so therefore neither new nor used...
 
BTW, my opposite experience with J&G sales. I bought a pistol advertized as VERY GOOD. I was expecting a pistol with the VG description noted above. Nope, when it arrived it was truly PERFECT. The only reason not to call it NEW was that it was surplus and changed hands a few times.
 
To me, a good standard for NIB would be unused and unfired, 100% NRA condition (except at the factory).
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NIB to me means in unopened packaging. in the gun world, i think everyone misuses it grossly.
 
99% of those who use the term "NIB" or "New in Box" are referring to the condition of the gun, not it's retail status.

Whether the gun has been sold at retail is misleading. What if the gun in question was carried by the store owner for a few months and only "test fired"? Since it had not been sold at retail would you consider it "New in Box" ? Not me.

If the gun sat in a dealers stockroom for fifteen years, it's nightsites are dead, it's a discontinued model from a defunct manufacturer would it be ethical to advertise it as "New in Box"?

How about a display gun that's been fingered by hundreds, yet has never been sold? Technically, it's still "New in Box", while it's condition is less than factory new.

Not all of the grading systems (NRA, Gunbroker, etc) can accurately describe the condition of a firearm to the satisfaction of everyone.

I am amused and amazed at firearms the seller describes as "mint condition" and he then adds that the gun has been refinished. That not just misleading, it's ignorance of the term "mint condition".
 
What if the gun in question was carried by the store owner for a few months and only "test fired"? Since it had not been sold at retail would you consider it "New in Box" ?
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Nope, no longer NEW. At best in EXCELLENT condition. A used gun in excellent condition that still has the box and papers.

If the gun sat in a dealers stockroom for fifteen years, it's nightsites are dead, it's a discontinued model from a defunct manufacturer would it be ethical to advertise it as "New in Box"?
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That would properly be called New Old Stock (NOS), with appropriate disclaimers on functionality (like dead night sights). NOS is an acceptable retail term.

How about a display gun that's been fingered by hundreds, yet has never been sold? Technically, it's still "New in Box", while it's condition is less than factory new.
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Nope that is not NEW. It might be something else in the box, but no longer meets the grading condition for NEW.
 
I always thought of it as once sold, no longer new. Like said above, since test firing occurs at the factory anyway, the act of firing it, if they did it once is not very likely to be noticed.

As far as warranty, most manufacturers are pretty good. Glock, while not having a lifetime warranty, will cover anything that you didnt break without question, at least in every dealing I have read of. Smith and Wesson is very good also. Ruger, Taurus(even though the quality of service sucks), and several others are all this way. Even Hi-Point. Most wont care if you are the first owner or not either, in my experience. You just have to learn to buy quality guns from reputable companies. They usually stand behind their work.
 
NIB is NIB, regardless if it's on the dealer shelf or someone's safe. The condition of the gun hasn't changed, only the paperwork ;)

"Another product example would be a car. Buy a car with 1 mile on it and drive it off the lot. Your car is now used and valued less than the identical car still parked on the lot that has 53 test driven miles on it. "

A more correct analogy would be that you bought a car with 1 mile, trucked it to storage, and it sit's there for 5 years. The dealer car (never sold for our example) has 53 miles on it. Problem with car comparison, is that a NIB that goes home usually gets LESS wear and tear tehn a dealer NIB on the shelf. As long as the guy sells it for at/below what dealer wants, it will sell before teh dealers.
 
Another product example would be a car. Buy a car with 1 mile on it and drive it off the lot. Your car is now used and valued less than the identical car still parked on the lot that has 53 test driven miles on it.
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A car is "NEW" until it has been titled regardless of mileage(at least under Alabama law). FWIW
 
A gun... once purchased from a retailer and signed out of their books is a used gun that is LNIB at best... call it 100%, call it perfect, call it unfired or anything else you like but it is NOT NIB... the only guns that are actually NIB and can/should be sold as such are fresh from the wholesaler sitting on a retail shelf.

reminds me of a P3AT that was in a local buy sell magazine... Unfired, NIB with 18 rounds of ammo...OH and a lifetime warranty... amazing how an individual could do such a thing seeing as 380 ammo does not come in 18 round boxes and kel tec only has a lifetime warranty for the original owner...

LNIB at best....

if a retailer carried the gun himself/herself, then it still must have been logged out of the shop books and into their personal books and is thus a used gun... any gun that has been logged out of a retailers books is a used gun.
 
A gun... once purchased from a retailer and signed out of their books is a used gun that is LNIB at best... call it 100%, call it perfect, call it unfired or anything else you like but it is NOT NIB... the only guns that are actually NIB and can/should be sold as such are fresh from the wholesaler sitting on a retail shelf.
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So what happens to the concept of collector guns ? That John Wayne that is home in someones safe can not be considered new ? If so , there are a lot of folk who are not going to be happy with that interprutation. At the dealer level - can we take it out of the box and display it ? Some say no, we can't.

I've heard a lot of different people give their opinion regarding what is a new gun , and some say they would not accept a new gun with a finger print on it, because that means someone has handled it. I wonder then how they think the darn thing got in the box to begin with ?

Perhaps the gun companies need to package guns with a seal on the box - once seal is broken - like new gun !! Then another seal on the action, which if broken - used gun ! That does mean you do not get to look at what you are buying though - after all , you broke the seal, and you might put a finger print on it.
 
collector gun or not.. if it is logged out of a retailers books it is a used gun... there is no gray area... until a new gun is logged out of a retailers books (whether stolen or sold) it is a new gun. Once signed out... be it sold, traded... or any other method you can come up with, it is a used gun. I do not understand the confusion here. A gun can still be 100 percent.. it can still be perfect in every aspect but it will never be NEW again.
 
... there is no gray area...
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Oh yes there is , and that's why the discussion .

I can live with your idea of what is new and what is used on the subject of firearms. It draws a line that is realitively clear , but still not without some grey area's . It is not as correct in my opinion as the difference between a gun that has been fired after leaving the retailer vs not fired.

That gun, from a condition standpoint, is the same after getting it home from the dealer, as it was sitting in the dealers stock room. Calling it used is a way of saying that you would trust no one, to the claim of not having fired the gun, except for the dealer.

Perhaps that is a good way to do it . Perhaps even the best way , but it is not the only way it is being done today.
 
This is an interesting question.

I in the process of doing a FTF sale and have been surprised by how "generous" owners are on the condition of their guns.

I am incredibly picky about the condition of a new firearm when I purchase it. However if it has a fingerprint on it, it is still new.

In my humble opinion, NIB refers to a blemish free product that has only been factory tested, and not fired by any consumer. Regardless of how many times it had passed hands or has been transferred, or sat in a safe.

I can't understand the idea that a firearm with 50-100 rounds is NIB...yet I have had several try to sell me on that.

If a firearm is merely a tool, then NIB should refer to it as an unused tool, in from the factory condition. Fingerprints included :)
 
no grey area? So a dealer takes a gun freshly delivered from the factory/wholesaler out back,runs a hundred rounds of homebrewed loads through it( doesn't want to risk HIS guns),cleans it up ,puts it back in the box and then sells it and it is still "new'? I don't think so. A gun that has been fired is "used". If you see "new" as a technical/legal term there may be some grey area but from all other standpoints a fired gun is a used gun.
 
A NIB specimen must also include the box,all papers,warranty card,user manual,lock and anything shipped with the gun from the manufacturer.
 
A lot of people, firearms or not, have trouble with the concept of "new". I read a description for a video game once that read:

"Absolutely brand new! Only played for a few hours then put back into box".

To me, you break the shrinkwrap, it ain't new. Now on guns that's a seperate issue since he FFL has to open it to get the serial (and so guns don't come "sealed" like traditional products do), but certainly, once it gets home if you've done mroe than take it out of the box and look at it more than once or twice, it's not NIB anymore. It's "Like New w/ Original box".
 
If I'm buying a gun that I know has never been fired,I have no problem accepting it as new regardless of the number of previous owners.
 
In order for a dealer to take a new gun out back and run a few hundred rounds through the gun.. if he is an honest dealer, he would log it out to himself first (making it used.)Otherwise, you purchased from a dishonest dealer.. that is another issue. Every gun is fired before leaving the manufacturer... therefore, in a sense, every gun is used and the fireing aspect should be removed from the conversation.. that leaves only the manufacturer, wholesaler, retailer chain.. once it leaves a retailer's books, it is a used gun.. it can be 100%, perfect, LNIB, "Unfired" but it is still a used gun.
 
once it leaves a retailer's books, it is a used gun.. it can be 100%, perfect, LNIB, "Unfired" but it is still a used gun.
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Yep, that would be my understanding as well. NIB at retail, until sold - it can still be As New In Box and Perfect after transfer.

Regarding new collectors guns ... that's not such a big deal in terms of resale. A collectors gun retains - and appreciates - in premium value depending on condition, that is if they they retain their ANIB, Perfect condition (or LNIB, if you prefer).

There are a few sellers on gunbroker, for instance, who use the ANIB terminology for guns/collectibles on consignment. That is to be applauded as it provides a nice accurate picture of what is being offered - previously owned, unfired (by owner) items with box and paperwork.
 
You guys crack me up. What the hell difference does it make if a gun's never been bought and sold, or bought and sold a dozen times but never fired? You get so freaking worked up about "never sold". Well Bubba, once you own it, it's been sold so the glory is gone.

So...let me see.....you have to buy a gun that's never fired, but take it out the first week end and run a box thru it. Now what do you have? See, every gun is fired maybe three times at the factory. The question is whether you gun has been fired three times or fifty three times. Does it REALLY make a difference?

Use "Blue Book" guidelines like all dealers do and let it go. There are too many wanna-be's here that buy guns to look at. Maybe you should get some ammo and actually shoot your guns instead of worrying about whether it's a safe queen or not. I realize it's a novel idea, but maybe you could try it once.

In the interest of full disclosure, remember that they make a loud "bang" if you ever pull the trigger and it's loaded.
 
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