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Training that you have attended

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Hasaf, Feb 3, 2019.

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  1. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2017
    Messages:
    614
    Location:
    Salt Lake, UT
    There has been a lot of discussion of training. I would hope to see this thread become a review of the training that members have attended. Just training that members have used and a bit about what they liked. No going negative, if you went to a dud, just don't mention it. If a facilities quality has slipped then mention it elsewhere. If enough have seen the problem then the Mod can be asked to remove that particular recommendation.

    The post format would be something like this:

    Organization: (the company proving the instruction)
    URL: (so people can find more information)
    Course title:
    Trainer: (the people actually doing it)
    Location:
    What I liked about this course:
     
  2. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2017
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Salt Lake, UT
    Okay, I will start. It isn't going to look impressive. But it was all the county, I was at, needed me to have. I didn't wear a uniform.

    Organization: Butte County Sheriff, US Forest Service, and Cal Fire
    URL: (so people can find more information)
    Course title: Reserve Level 2
    Trainer: Frankly, I don't remember.
    Location: Butte College
    What I liked about this course: They brought in experts from each area. As an example, because Cal Fire actually runs code 3 more often, they were brought in for the defensive driving (I absolutely loved that part). They also did the first aid module. The SO did the shooting (more fun!), felony traffic stops (hey! we got to play airsoft, and got paid for it!), and the law section. The Forest Service I am a bit hazy on, they had some people who had something to do with parks for the crowd control, unarmed defence, and baton section. . . I think it was the Forest Service, possibly Cal Parks. . .

    In all, it was a great, but a bit intense, program. That being said, there is no way I could afford a similar 8-week program.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  3. Browning

    Browning Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,240
    Location:
    DFW - TX
    Organization:
    Tac Pro Shooting Center
    35100 North State Highway 108
    Mingus, Texas 76463-6405



    Tel: 254.968.3112
    Fax 254.968.5857


    URL:
    https://www.tacproshootingcenter.com/classes.html#pistol


    Course titles : • Tac-Pro Primary Defensive Pistol

    • Tac- Pro Advanced Defensive Pistol

    • Tac-Pro Force on Force.

    Trainer : Bill Davison
    In the late 1980s, Davison served in the Counter Terrorist Wing of the Special Boat Service as a helicopter sniper and close quarter battle instructor. In the early '90s, he taught advanced firearms techniques and VIP protection to the civilian police in Britain. While still in the Royal Marines, he visited the US to teach anti-terrorist tactics to the Dallas/Fort Worth Airport Police SWAT team.

    He left the Royal Marines in 1992 to work for Vanguard International Protection where he operated as a bodyguard to the children of a Middle Eastern sheik. Davison continued close protection work with his own company. He was employed in the US, Europe, Africa and the Middle East to protect the son of a wealthy Egyptian family.

    One of the main factors in the Davisons' decision to move to the US is the acceptance of privately owned firearms and their use in self-defense. While this is under attack here, the situation is much worse in the UK.

    The only guns that law-abiding Britons can now own are bolt action rifles or double-barrel shotguns. And to own either type of gun, they must belong to a shooting club.

    "The paperwork involved nowadays, to own either of those is unbelievable," said Alice Davison.

    It appears that in Britain nowadays it is illegal to defend yourself with a gun. Davison said he left England because he refuses to live under the kind of state tyranny where he is unable to protect himself and his wife.

    "It really did hurt," he said. "I mean I worked for the government and I protected the people's right to live freely and then overnight you didn't have any rights to live freely. We had to do what the government said, when they said it or we go to jail and that's not the way people should live," he said.

    ••••

    I went to a Gunsite course years ago (1987) and there were quite a few changes in techniques from back then.

    Plus I was a bit rusty at the time when I started training again and I was used to shooting at a regular range with booths. While my marksmanship was pretty good, my ability to move and shoot lagged behind a bit. In Arizona shooters can just go out to the desert and shoot. Even in California we had the San Gabriel Mountains above Los Angeles and the desert to shoot in. I was also involved in IPSC when I grew up in California.

    In Texas (at least in a huge radius around the DFW metroplex) it's all private land. People shoot at ranges or on deer leases. I still shot after moving to Texas, but it was mostly at ranges where you were married to a booth or bench. After these courses finding a range to actually train at became a priority. If you don't practice what you learn after the course it's wasted.

    About the courses (2014 and two in 2015) :
    Bill Davison has an established program where regardless of how much experience a shooter has they'll get something out of the course. Whether that's establishing a base for beginning shooters to start from to giving instruction to established shooters on minor tweaks to fine tune how you already shoot. I already knew how to shoot fairly well, what I needed was some upgrading, tweaks and to get moving again.

    Primary Defensive Pistol :
    Primary Defensive Pistol starts with a safety briefing, a little bit about his background, his theory on defensive pistol use, a brief history of combat arms and how that might relate to the student, stance, grip, sights, holsters, and then proceeds rapidly to actually shooting.

    It's hard to cram how much information is actually packed into the courses in written format, but I'll try.

    Bill puts a lot of emphasis on accuracy. Therefore he puts a lot of emphasis on grip, sights, knowing your particular pistol, where it hits, consistent trigger press and so on. The first drill we shot was at 3-5 yards where we were shooting flies.

    No we weren't doing Speznaz flips with sharpened shovels over fire pits, we were focusing on accuracy. Then eventually doing that at speed.

    My first target from this course.
    IMG_7897.JPG

    Many flies I nailed right off the bat, some I did not. It's similar to 'Dot Torture'.

    Then we proceeded to drawing, firing with two hands, barricade shooting, shooting from off your back so you don't shoot yourself in the knee or feet, shooting while moving forward, shooting while moving backwards, shooting while moving horizontally, one handed shooting (dominant), one handed shooting (weak hand), shooting one handed while moving (dominant), shooting while moving (weak handed), minor CQB tactics, lots of malfunction drills (we all got snap caps for free), more malfunction drills, weapon retention, moving through doorways and so on.

    I think class size was 6 including me. Davison was the only instructor.

    IMG_7898.JPG IMG_7899.JPG
    Advanced Defensive Pistol :

    Advanced Defensive Pistol is about building from the foundation that you've already put down (Primary Defensive Pistol is a requirement, I believe that this will be waived if you've attended an equivalent school) and more minor tweaks to how you shoot (every instructor is different, you take what works for you, forget what doesn't and maybe come back to it at a later time).

    Advanced isn't really 'advanced' in the way many people think, it's about mastering the basics (sorry, still no Speznaz shovel flips). It is faster paced though. With this class they aren't going to wait for you.

    You're expected to be up to speed and to have done some practice on the skills you learned in Primary Defensive on your own. In this class he'll be showing you minor differences in techniques in how to accomplish the goal rather than through much lecture or classroom repetition.

    Lots of shooting while moving and taking cover (barrels, barricade and improvised doorways) and malfunction drills.

    5-6 students comprised the whole class. There was also an older expatriate Brit with a beard teaching some portions of the class.

    Force on Force :
    Force on Force is about scenarios while using sims. First day was a safety brief and then half lecture and half drawing, weapons retention, learning what constitutes cover, moving to cover, tasks to perform if a lull occurs during the encounter (calling 911, asking another person to call 911, getting in your vehicle and leaving, first aid on yourself or a friend/loved one, reloading, communicating with a friend or loved one, giving commands to assailants, how to deal with law enforcement etc).

    Second day was about scenarios and using sims (paint rds). Most of those involved being in and around vehicles, makes sense since that's how people get places. Each of us ran through a few scenarios (muggers, armed robbers, bank withdrawals gone wrong, being a bystander to domestic violence and so on) and we were expected to solve the problem of applying it all. I'm in EMS and I'm used to doing scenarios (often in lame training circumstances where it feels nothing like what happens in real life), these were definitely better and there as actually a bit of stress involved (competitive environment).

    1. You didn't want to screw up in front of everyone.

    2. You're paying for this, so you want to squeeze everything you can out of it and learn even if you decide not to adopt that particular idea or technique for yourself.

    The instructors and bad actors did a good job of trying to 'talk their way in' (get close to you) in some of the scenarios although the safety gear screwed up being able to see, speak and hear. Had to constantly move my head around.

    This class was larger 10-11 people including some women.

    At any rate that's roughly it.

    •••••••••••••••••••

    More information about the courses at Tac Pro :

    Spike TV had a series about his school several years ago where a variety of students with different backgrounds (some were shooters previously, some were not) where he took them through Primary Defensive Pistol, Intermediate Defensive Pistol (since folded into Primary and Advanced to streamline the training), a Force of Force course and his Fight At Night course.

    Fight At Night
    https://www.tacproshootingcenter.com/classes.html#night









    Older reviews of Tac-Pro on THR
    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/pistol-training-in-dfw.267765/
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  4. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,504
    Location:
    Flatlandistan
    Well, since you didn't specify handgun training, I'll start with....

    US Army
    Rifle Marksmanship
    Sgt. ?
    Ft. Ord, Monterey CA

    Course began Nov. 1967. I learned to use a 10lb. semi auto rifle, shoot from several positions including prone, standing, and knee supported. Was also taught a technique called "quick kill", where at ranges up to 50 yards or so, you don't use your sights, but rather just quickly look over the top of your barrel with both eyes open and shoot. Very effective with a little training.

    Also learned about bullet drop at long range, estimating distances, etc. Was able to hit targets out to 600m and was awarded an expert rifleman badge.

    The problem with the course is that after you complete it, the organization running it tends to want to send you to far corners of the earth to practice what you've learned.
     
    Mot45acp likes this.
  5. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart Member

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    May 4, 2017
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    1,409
    Location:
    Confederate Country
    My father Taught me a lot about firearms and training. A career Marine, Veteran of two wars, shooting enthusiast, However, before I even picked up a gun, he sent me to a NRA safety course. I had other training and course's down life's journey, but the "Roots" of safety were well planted for the rest of my life. Likewise, I did the same for my son.
     
  6. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    1,914
    Location:
    SoCal
    Brings to mind a conversation I had a few months ago. The main question was, could the fact that you attended training be used to show you "wanted" to shoot someone?
     
  7. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2017
    Messages:
    614
    Location:
    Salt Lake, UT
    Even responding to "off topic" is, in itself, off topic. So, I removed the response.
     
  8. oldrevolverguy

    oldrevolverguy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    146

    Over the years I have attended most of the courses at Tac Pro. I had won my division of the Oklahoma State IDPA Championship the year before attending my first class there. I was a MUCH better shooter after Bill's training. Bill's classes in Pistol, Carbine, Precision Rifle and Shotgun are more than worth your time and money.
     
    Browning likes this.
  9. Nuclear

    Nuclear Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    449
    Location:
    Arizona
    Gunsite
    gunsite.com
    250 Handgun Class
    Instructors: Walt Wilkinson, Mike Moore (I think), and one other gentleman whose name escapes me.
    928-636-4565
    2900 W. Gunsite Rd.
    Paulden, AZ. 86334

    Now down to the important stuff. The class was smaller than usual as I attended in August. We had a mix of current LEOs, one retired LEO, a novice who had shot once before and the rest of us were gun enthusiasts. Most of what was covered in the classroom I had been exposed to before elsewhere, with the exception of a video about a jeweler who had been in multiple shootouts. His statement that he always expected to be in a gunfight stuck with me, as most everyone says they don't think it will ever happen to them, but they'd like to be prepared just in case.

    The range work was where I learned more. By the end of the course, I could do things I didn't think were possible, in terms of how fast I could draw and shoot accurately enough for self defense. I learned that if you are carrying a single stack, you must be more aware of your magazine capacity and reloading. I learned not to depend on a single 45 shot to drop a target, even though it worked almost every time on falling steel targets. I learned that clearing a house by yourself is a really bad idea and most likely to get yourself, or some innocent, shot, maybe killed. I learned the importance of a reliable handgun, by virtue of my previously completely reliable handgun developing a malfunction that required serious gunsmithing to fix.

    If you are going to take any training, get electronic hearing protection. I doubled up and couldn't hardly hear the commands unless I took off the earmuffs.

    If you have the time and money to take a class at Gunsite I highly recommend it.
     
  10. Stope Rat

    Stope Rat Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    85
    Insight Training Center

    Phone: (888) 958-0884

    Mailing Address:
    PO Box 3585
    Bellevue, WA 98009

    http://www.insightstraining.com/view_course.asp?courseID=55

    Law Enforcement Defensive Folding Knife


    "This course will teach the officer to escape from Deadly Force grappling situations and to retain their gun in situations that would otherwise be impossible. One day of defensive knife training will allow you to be victorious over an opponent with years of street fighting, martial arts, or wrestling training.

    This course integrates defensive knife skills with your defensive handgun skills, so wear your duty gear (inert guns will be provided, bring your own if you have one)."



    I took this one several years ago, and tried to get my agency to make it mandatory training. (Sadly, we apparently needed cultural diversity training more.) Think of this as weapons retention on steroids.

    In addition to working on retention and counterattack skills, the course really cemented into my mind how absolutely freaking dangerous a knife is. Remember the old "21 foot rule" or the Tueller Drill? Forget that. If you are close enough for me to recognize that you have an edged weapon and apparent hostile intent, I am going to the low ready.

    (The current material references a one-day class. When I took it, they had a 2-day civilian class, and the LE class was three days.)
     
    Gridley likes this.
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