Transfers: Why the charge when receiving from other dealers but not distributors?

[JonF]

I suppose the first part of understanding this is to know what a transfer actually entails beyond the name. What process goes on during a transfer that is different when a dealer receives a firearm from a distrubutor (no transfer fee) than when receiving one from a non-distributor (extra transfer fee)? What extra steps does the dealer have to do in this case of "transferring"?

 

[bearmgc]

Some charge even from a distributer. Its business and the legalities of doing transfers. The FFL guy is simply making money, as part of his business. Has nothing to do with how complicated it is. Depends more on what the FFL guy is capable of making on the wholesale cost from a distributer. Each FFL guy determines what to charge for the different transactions. Some guys believe that if they charge a BIG fee just to do transfers, the buyer might buy directly from him.
With my FFL guy, I'm still better off buying online and have him do the transfer. I buy my other accessories from him, so he does get regular business from me, and I get charged a cheap fee on transfers.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

When you say "from a distributor" do you mean the case where the dealer orders the gun for you from the distributor and you pay the dealer? In that case, they don't charge the transfer fee as they have already made their money in marking up the gun.

In the case from other dealers, you are paying them for the service. If you bought directly from the distributor including paying the distributor, I would expect to pay a transfer fee as well.

 

[CoRoMo]

I've never found a dealer willing to transfer me any gun I've ordered for free. I've ordered guns from distributors, and when my local guy transfers it to me, I pay him for the service. He charges me the same $10 if I ordered the gun from a distributor or from a private seller.

 

[sernv99]

one FFL that I bought from, says he charges $100 for transfers just because he said it is a pain to do all the paperwork. He works out of his house and is the only dealer around his neck of the woods.

 

[Maelstrom]

one FFL that I bought from, says he charges $100 for transfers just because he said it is a pain to do all the paperwork. He works out of his house and is the only dealer around his neck of the woods.

I don't know where you live but I'd be willing to bet rape is illegal there.

If an FFL ever told me he was going to charge me $100 for one two minute phone call and three minutes of paperwork I think I'd have to punch him in his mouth.

 

[Flame Red]

I don't know where you live but I'd be willing to bet rape is illegal there.

If an FFL ever told me he was going to charge me $100 for one two minute phone call and three minutes of paperwork I think I'd have to punch him in his mouth.

Then it is obvious you don't live in Orlando.

I think what the original question's intent is why don't they dealers tack on a transfer fee for guns they sell for retail. If so, most do, the $5 NICS call. The 'cost' of the transfer is built into the price.

Believe me, around here, if they could think they could get away with another fee, they would.

 

[Tom488]

Hmmm... "all that paperwork", huh? Let's see:

Order from distributor: Receive package, sign UPS electronic gizmo, open package, log firearm as received in bound book, log it out of bound book to customer, fill out 4473, do NICS check, collect money, wish customer good day.

Receive from another FFL: Receive package, sign UPS electronic gizmo, open package, log firearm as received in bound book, log it out of bound book to customer, fill out 4473, do NICS check, collect money, wish customer good day.

Where's the extra paperwork from a transfer?

 

[JonF]

I think Jorg and Tom have touched on the real explanation behind it. The dealer-to-dealer transfer does not entail any additional process that would cause for an additional labor charge, rather its a fee for their services as an FFL since no retail sale was made with them in particular.

Thanks all for your input.

 

[Macmac]

I don't know anything about any $5.00 fee to call NICS..

A FFL is in business to earn money. So if you buy from him he earns his money as profit margin in the sale.

He has paid the 'distributor' a profit as well, and while I don't know what paper work the 'distributor' does, I know they know which dealers the gun went to.

So it is with in reason to pay a FFL a reasonable fee, and I know of none charging more than $25.00, and some for as little as $10.00.

If that fee is a $100.00, you need to find another FLL.

 

[dogtown tom]

Macmac: I don't know anything about any $5.00 fee to call NICS..

You are correct, the FBI NICS is a free service.

Some states have elected to do their own background check system. There is often a charge for the call in these states.

 

[misANTHrope]

Hmmm... "all that paperwork", huh? Let's see:

Order from distributor: Receive package, sign UPS electronic gizmo, open package, log firearm as received in bound book, log it out of bound book to customer, fill out 4473, do NICS check, collect money, wish customer good day.

Receive from another FFL: Receive package, sign UPS electronic gizmo, open package, log firearm as received in bound book, log it out of bound book to customer, fill out 4473, do NICS check, collect money, wish customer good day.

Where's the extra paperwork from a transfer?

Allow me to present an alternate transfer scenario. This is not my story; rather, it is from a discussion on transfer fees from another forum.

I received a request for a gun transfer for a guy in Friendsville over a week ago. The last sentence on the fax that I sent to the Rhode Island Gunshop with my FFL cert. said exactly this: "Please do not forget to place an inked copy of your FFL in the shipping container with the firearm." I thought that was pretty plain but I guess them damned Rhode Island Yankees don't read Southern very well.

OK so a pistol comes in to the shop via FedEx three days ago and not only does it not have a copy of the shipper's FFL or identification, it does not have the customer's name on it. Now, if I only did one or two transfers a week this would not be a major problem but I do more than that so not knowing for sure who has paid for this gun is a problem. I don't have time to deal with it that afternoon as I have customers in the shop with real live Benjamin Franklins and plastic so I pack it back up and put it in the vault. The next day (yesterday) I track down the FFL from the price tag on the pistol and call them on my dime. I talk to some kid that doesn't know squat and says let me let you talk to my dad. Ok so now I'm on hold and customers are coming into my shop. Finally dad picks up and when questioned he provides the customer's name and says "you mean my boy didn't put a copy of our FFL in the box?" " I'll FAX you a copy. 15 min. later the customer calls and wants to pick up his pistol. I explain to him why he can't. Now the customer calls back every 15 minutes asking if I have received the FAX yet and can he pick up his new Springfield EMP. I say no FAX, no pick up.

Today I arrive at the store right at opening time (delayed due to a courthouse obligation) and have customers at the door waiting for me to sell them guns. The day is looking up. Phone rings and its the guy wanting to pick up his EMP. No Fax, no EMP. I call Rhode Island, do the hold thing and tell the guy that the customer is getting angry. He says he knows because he has called there also. Then my FAX machine is tied up for about an hour as the RHode Island dealer is trying to FAX the document from a broken FAX machine that does not transmit FAX tones. Finally late in the afternoon I get a FAX with the requisite information, complete the first part of my A&D paperwork, call the customer who is nearly foaming at the mouth because the gun has been in the same zip code for three days but he couldn't have it, he comes in to complete the paperwork, we do the TICS thing and then I complete the second part of my A&D entry.

This took hours of time, effort and worry for which I got paid my usual and customary fee of $25. It wasn't the customer's fault. It was the fault of the dumbass Rhode Island Yankee FFL. If he didn't own a gun shop he'd own a fast food joint and neglect to put your fries in your order at the drive through window.

Does this happen every time? No but it happens more than you might immagine. And that's coming from an FFL. Things can get really screwed up when a private individual sends a gun in. Gun transfers are a customer service/customer development thing but sometimes it is down right frustrating. I wouldn't gripe about $25 to $30 for a transfer fee.

Don't get me wrong, $100 for a transfer is still ridiculous... but it's a faulty assumption that receiving from another FFL is never any more work than receiving from a distributor you work with regularly. And, as was previously mentioned, if the shop is selling you the gun, he's making profit on it that way, unlike transfers.

 

[WardenWolf]

Many distributing contracts likely include not tacking a surcharge on transfers from them. You sign on with a distributor, and agree to carry their products and order through them. Part of that agreement may very well be that you will not tack any additional fees on, except for those required by law.

Case in point: Distributor has a website where you can order direct from them and have it delivered to any of several affiliated dealers. In order to ensure their online price is honored, they may have a no-charge clause in their contract.

 

[ishida]

I guess I'm lucky. I pay a bit extra for guns bought in-shop, and only buy my ammo in the shop, and I get free transfers

He needs to get more 7.62TOK in at a time.

 

[shooter454]

Alot of times the transfer fee is because the dealer is making no money on the weapon if you purchased it from someone else and then tranfered it to them. I suppose some of them get irritated that you did not give them the chance to have you business or at least try for it.

If the dealer bought the weapon from a distributor at wholesale and then sells it to you at retail his profit is from the sale not the transfer.

 

[John828]

Look at it like this, we all have to mow our own lawns (excepting our apartment and condo dwelling members.) Suppose your next door neighbor asks you to mow his lawn while he is in Hawaii for two weeks, depending on your neighborliness or reciprocity agreements, you may or may not agree.

BUT WHY SPEND YOUR OWN ENERGY TO HELP OTHERS?

Listen folks, transfers take time out of a persons life. Pay him, do not muzzle an ox while he is treading the grain. Bunch of cheapskates.

 

[Tom488]

I'm not arguing against transfer fees - I fully understand that the FFL is in business to make money, and if they aren't making it from a sale, they are entitled to make something for the service. I was just finding fault with the "it's so much more paperwork" claim.

However, misANTHrope made a good point, in that it can become much more of a pain dealing with the one-off dealer rather than a regular distributor. I hadn't considered that, because all of my transfers have gone smoothly.

And, on the subject of NICS fees, yes - states that operate as a Point of Contact for NICS charge fees. In PA, I believe it's $3. Here in NJ, it's $16.05 ($15, plus 7% sales tax) - billed to the FFL's phone bill, as it's a 900 number. Now, here's the kicker - when the people who answer that phone line are busy, it rolls over to an answering machine that announces, "sorry - no one can take your all - try again later". And that announcement costs the FFL $16.05. Nice, huh?

 

[Maelstrom]

Listen folks, transfers take time out of a persons life. Pay him, do not muzzle an ox while he is treading the grain. Bunch of cheapskates.

Cheapskate?

$100 for 5 minutes of work = $12,000 an hour.

The dude is filling out paperwork and making a phone call. He's playing secretary, not curing cancer.

 

[John828]

Okay, cheapskate is a little harsh as is the $100 fee. Gunbroker.com has FFL finder. Go to it, enter your zipcode, and voila, you'll find someone who will do it for less.

 

[Bailey Guns]

Any of you who think FFLs charging a fee for their service is wrong, be it $10 or $100, are certainly free to get your own FFL.

Go ahead and punch the guy, Maelstrom. Let us know how many guns you get while in jail. Or worse, the hospital. I suppose you work for free. If not, you probably don't turn down too many raises or bonuses.

My blood pressure goes sky high every time I read one of these threads with certain guys bitchin' about FFL dealers making money.

 

[Maelstrom]

No one had any gripe with dealers making money. $10, $25, even $35 is reasonable. No one expects the FFL to be free. But there is a limit to what can be reasonably asked.

Incidentally, your comment about landing in jail for punching an FFL is almost adorable. You're clearly not from the north or you would have known not to take that literally.

 

[Bailey Guns]

OH...so now you're the Administrator of Reasonableness?

I contend that the market determines what is reasonable in terms of transfer fees. If there is a segment of the market willing to pay $100 then that is a reasonable fee for those people willing to pay $100.

And, no, I'm not from the North. I'm from the South. In the South there are generally consequences for those who threaten to punch someone else in the mouth. Course, people in the South, in my opinion, are a lot more friendly and tolerable than they are in the North. Better manners, too.

BTW: In answer to your sig-line question...that would be because the US Constitution says so.

 

[tinygnat219]

If I order from a distributor, it has to go to an FFL holder. The FFL holder usually charges a fee for this service of receiving the firearm, putting it in his books, and then processing the paperwork. I don't mind the charge as the price I found at the distributor beats whatever new MSRP is.

 

[waterhouse]

for 5 minutes of work

I used to think it was 5 minutes of work. Then I got an FFL. 5 minutes gets quoted a lot.

If you do a search, you can probably find a time when I thought it took 5 minutes as well. I was wrong.

If someone has a concealed carry permit (bypassing the NICS check) and is quick about filling out the 4473 they might be in and out in 5-7 minutes.

That is how much time they are in the store. Then there is faxing the license, receiving the package, opening the package (you wouldn't believe the amount of bubble wrap some guns are wrapped in . . . sometimes getting the gun safely out of the box takes 5 minutes) logging it in, and logging it out and filing the paperwork. These are all simple tasks, and most often are fairly easy to see to, but each little one adds up to well over the 5 minutes I so often see quoted.

That is if the customer knows what they are doing on the 4473 and they have a concealed permit.

Running the background check adds another 2-5 minutes to the whole process.

Tracking down a shipper to log a gun in can take 30 minutes or more.

Don't forget about when a gun breaks. Now Fedex or UPS sends someone over to inspect the shipping materials and the damage, and since I am the receiver I get to deal with the whole issue.

Let's not forget the time that customers chat. Personally, I like talking to gun people. I like to hear their range reports and hunting stories. I've been in other gun shops when they are relatively busy and the guy filling out the 4473 his transfer is talking about the buck he shot. There's another 5 minutes that the guy behind the counter "spent" completing the transfer.

If everything goes perfectly, the dealer has probably spent 12-20 minutes on most transfers. I'd guess things only go perfectly about half the time. The other half, more time is usually spent.

 

[AJD]

The OP question was answered.

I've never been in an gun shop that didn't do FFL transfers which leads me to believe that A)It makes them money(Either directly from the transfer or indirectly from other sales from the customer entering the shop) and B)Its not some terrible process filled with tons of paperwork and headaches.

If it wasn't worth their time and it was so horrible than they wouldn't do it.