Trigger Pull on an EDC?

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

burk

Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
443
I'm considering carrying my Glock 19 gen3 as an EDC. I've been carrying a 30SF which I'll keep and still carry up north where I might have to deal with some bigger critters. But the 19, is lighter, feels thinner, and carries five more rounds. I've read about a lot of people switching back to 9mm as the SD ammo has improved, and I shoot my 19 better or as good as any firearm I've owned including some very good 1911's. BUT, the gun was originally set up for competition and has a light trigger, it consistantly breaks between 2.9 and 3.18 pounds with no grit in the action. It still has the long take up.

It will be carried IWB, and I'm picky when it comes to trigger discipline and safety, never had an unintentional discharge even on the range. I've been carrying since the 80's and I still check and double check. I carried 1911's locked and cocked for a long time with no issues. I feel safe with it, but I'd like to get some feedback? I'd also like to know if their were any legal issues?
 
Everyone has their own opinions and comfort level, but I don't really like to go below 5ish pounds on a carry trigger, and I think that between 4-6 pounds is more or less a generally agreed upon minimum weight for carry guns.
 
Last edited:
It's an individual choice and confidence in your weapon is paramount.

Keep this in mind, though. During an adrenaline dump when tensions are high your brain is working on instinct. It has been shown that during these times your muscles can jerk and cause your finger to twitch strong enough to pull a 20lb trigger.

Having a longer trigger pull can help such as those found in a DA/SA setup or what you could accomplish by using a NY trigger in your Glock.

Just food for thought.
 
My carry gun has a "Combat/Carry" four pound trigger job. I consider four pounds to be the minimum and that a carry gun should have some creep before the trigger breaks.
 
he gun was originally set up for competition and has a light trigger
Click to expand...

One of the tricks to getting a glock trigger that light is to polish and reshape the safety plunger and lighten the plunger spring. I would never dream of carrying one set up like that. (I have one I wouldn't ever carry)
 
I prefer a heavier trigger on my edc. My job requires that I remove my gun when I go in and out of people's houses. My safe in my truck will not accommodate the gun and the holster, so I am required to handle the gun out of the leather while I sit in a cramped cab.

I don't even like the 5.5lb trigger on the Glock. For the longest time I did not feel comfortable with a striker fired gun with no safety. However, as a revolver guy, I do like striker fired guns with long revolver like pulls or da/sa pistols.

I have no issues with lighter triggers for the range or walking around, but having to handle a "live" gun often I prefer a little extra safety against an ND.
 
Juries can be fickle. On the off chance you actually have to defend your actions in court why would you risk carrying a gun that was modified in a manner that makes it easier to fire?
 
I suggest returning your Glock to the original 5.5 pull if it's to be carried. Adrenaline and momentary lapse of trigger discipline in an SD is a valid concern, and possible legal perceptions in court afterwards.

I personally prefer 7lb+ triggers on EDC guns. Your chances of needing to shoot more than a room length away is slim.
 
One other note:
I bought this Gen3 19 used as a home defense/range gun and it came equipped with the Lightning Strike Tigger, so it's not an OEM trigger assembly. If I get it bumped up I'm going to take it to a smith to do it. It also had the a titanium guide rod, JP Cooper mag release, LS weighted base plates, A Seattle Slug brass grip plug, Trijicons, and a ghost slide release. It is a tac driver.

At the time I was carrying a Kimber CDP, but I've gone all Glock because I wanted the same platform for all my SD guns, and I can't afford the admission price on a bevy of 1911's. I've got a Gen3 30SF with a custom creations slide and trijicon HD's, and a Gen4 21 with Trijicons too. They both have the OEM oversized slide releases. I am thinking about selling the 21 and getting a Vickers Tactical 19 to carry. I want to keep one .45 for bigger critters up north (black bear) while Fly Fishing. But I'm going to 9mm for my basic SD guns.
 
My favorite carry gun is 8 pounds DA on the first pull and goes to 4 until the magazine is empty. 3 pounds is the lightest I have/will carry on a ccw, and those were on 1911s or other single actions. If I had to carry a Glock, it would not have a lighter than stock trigger.
 
I do a lot of "glocksmithing" and the trick to getting a lighter trigger on a Glock is a combination of aftermarket parts. One of the more critical parts is a lighter striker spring. These should only be used for gun games or range use. You will eventually get light strikes (click but no bang) as the spring weakens further over time. Make sure you are running a stock (or heavier) striker spring if the gun has a potential SD/HD role.

The safety plunger spring is not so critical unless you plan on dropping the pistol frequently.

My favorite combo with my G23 carry is the stock striker spring with a competition safety plunger spring and trigger spring (heavier, makes trigger lighter) along with a 3.5 lb connector. Trigger is about 4.5 to 5 lbs with factory pre-travel and re-set.
 
Last edited:
My Glock 26 has a NY-1/3.5 lb connector. 8 llb trigger pull (more or less.) My S&W J Centennial has a well tuned DAO trigger maybe 11 lb.

Why? Cause they have NO manual safeties.

And they shoot quite well at any speed or range I'd use it in a SD situation.

Deaf
 
Massad Ayoob ....

I agree with well known legal use of force trainer & author; Massad Ayoob, www.MassadAyoobgroup.com . A carry or duty semi automatic pistol should have a trigger pull of no less than 5.0lbs.
A DA only trigger of 8-10lb is ideal.
 
The trigger gauge that I utilize to measure the trigger press weight indicates as an example a (stock) Colt XSE is 4lbs. I don't see that as problematic. One is required to have a certain amount of competency in regards to manual of arms.
 
Carry OWB in a good holster and you're gtg.


Of course I'm not the kind to stuff any pistol down my pants unless it has a manual safety or a hammer.
 
If I'm going to carry a handgun as a dedicated defensive weapon, I like to keep the trigger pull weight within the factory spec for that model.

Doesn't matter whether it's a Traditional Double Action (also called DA/SA), Double Action Only or Single Action design, I like to keep the trigger within factory spec for pull weight for the model as it was produced.

Carrying a target/competition model, or a standard model modified with target/competition parts not commonly used in a model sold for duty/defensive application, with a lighter trigger than the same company's advertised duty/defensive model(s), might create the potential for some unnecessary (and expensive to defend) legal issues being raised. I'd just as soon not have to address that, myself, or pay an attorney to address it.

As a factory-trained LE armorer for a number of different firearms, it's going to be easier to defend my support, maintenance and repair practices of any firearm if I stay within the factory specs. It protects me, the individual men & women carrying the guns I support, and the agency (of course).

As an owner/user of a personally-owned firearm carried as a dedicated defensive weapon, it might help keep the door closed to unwanted state-of-mind/intention issues that might be raised during any investigations and criminal or civil proceedings. Why needlessly create the opportunity for unnecessary exposure to liability?

Since Massad Ayoob's name has already been mentioned by another poster, anyone interested in reading and considering his thoughts might be interested to wander over to the Smith & Wesson Forum (smith-wessonforum.com/) and look at the Sticky he authored in the Concealed Carry & Self Defense section, called Facts About "Light Trigger Pull Liability".

Something else to consider is that measuring trigger pull weight may vary depending on the equipment and method used, as well as the training & experience of the person doing the measuring. ;)

Just some thoughts.
 
With a manual safety, I'd say 4 to 5 pounds is good.

With a trigger safety, 5 to 7 pounds.

Not sure about DAO.

Obviously the safety doesn't preclude trigger discipline, but it does help.
 
For carry 5-6 lbs is the sweet spot for me. I don't want any less - but I don't want any MORE than that either.

For my competition guns I'm fine down to a 2 lbs trigger pull.
 
There are two things I notice about Ayoob's argument:

1) Almost every case it involves a police officer. Civiliian use of firearms for SD is far different. I can't present my firearm just in case. In most localaties all of the conditions (fear for your life, emminent threat,etc) have to present themselves before I present my firearm. In other words my pistol will not be presented unless the conditions for a justifyable shooting have already occurred.

2) The cases where Ayoob talks about trigger modifications presenting problems for civillians were almost all negligent discharges. The problem is, if you present your firearm in a situation where a shooting isn't justified, in most localaties you are already "brandishing". Second, If you are carrying as a Police officer or private citizen and you shoot some one accidentally you are going to be in a heep of trouble, no matter what the trigger pull on your gun was. Obviously in the case of a Police officer a trigger modification would contribute to the charge of neglagence. But for a Private citizen I suspect if you shoot someone in public accidentally, any modifications you did to your firearm will be the least of your problems.
 
burk said:
1) Almost every case it involves a police officer. Civiliian use of firearms for SD is far different. I can't present my firearm just in case. In most localaties all of the conditions (fear for your life, emminent threat,etc) have to present themselves before I present my firearm. In other words my pistol will not be presented unless the conditions for a justifyable shooting have already occurred.
Click to expand...

It is what he knows best. Having been a police officer before instructor. For better or worse, civilian trends follow police trends. Police get Glocks, Glocks become popular with civilians. Police prefer HST/Gold Dot/Critical Duty, people buy them. So it is reasonable to use Police use of force rules and case law as precedent. While a civilian self defense case will unlikely reach the celebrity popularity of George Zimmerman, lessons can be learned from police celebrity shooting cases like the Wilson case in Ferguson, MO.

burk said:
2) The cases where Ayoob talks about trigger modifications presenting problems for civillians were almost all negligent discharges. The problem is, if you present your firearm in a situation where a shooting isn't justified, in most localaties you are already "brandishing". Second, If you are carrying as a Police officer or private citizen and you shoot some one accidentally you are going to be in a heep of trouble, no matter what the trigger pull on your gun was. Obviously in the case of a Police officer a trigger modification would contribute to the charge of neglagence. But for a Private citizen I suspect if you shoot someone in public accidentally, any modifications you did to your firearm will be the least of your problems.
Click to expand...

It is a matter of credibility. Prosecutors will use seemingly minor details such as modifications to a self defense firearm, to weaken credibility in the eyes of a jury. It doesn't take much for a prosecutor to sway a juror who is on the fence by calling into speculation of WHY the trigger pull was lightened. Sure YOUR defense is so you are more accurate, more comfortable. But the prosecutor can easily point out negligence, you didn't INTEND to shoot the suspect axing through your door because the trigger pull was so light.
 
I switched to Glocks as a carry pistol over the BHP a few years ago. Slightly higher mag capacity with a G17 or a G19 with a +2 extension vs a BHP using MecGar 15 rd mags) and I care less about holster wear with Glock's.

Kept the trigger pull stock on all of them. On the G19 (the only personally owned Glock I've ever checked the trigger pull weight on) it was a little over 6 lbs. That was after a billion rounds too. The other ones I own are all newer, don't have as many rds through them and feel heavier even though I haven't been able to confirm that.

The stock trigger pull is what I'm used to, it's not too heavy and not too light and from what Ayoob has stated besides the 'NY triggers' it's one of the more defensible triggers in court if some anti-2A prosecuting attorney who's trying to say that you shot the burglar that broke into your home 9 times accidentially.

Don't know if that's true, but that's what he's stated on multiple occasions and since he's often getting dragged into court as a recognized subject matter expert I tend to believe him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

I
  • Locked
G30sf
Replies
6
Views
728
YZ
Y
M
  • Locked
Need some thoughts on an EDC
Replies
15
Views
778
gym
G
Quoheleth
  • Locked
Sig p250c for carry?
Replies
2
Views
315
longknife12
L
I
  • Locked
New Glock 19 and Kydex holster
Replies
6
Views
724
Infidel4life11
I
D
  • Locked
Trigger and Trigger pull.
Replies
1
Views
257
ROBBY.1911
R
Back
Top