Trooper shot, dashcam video

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Dashcam video:
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/KLTV_20060718205832_2_.wmv


Man gets life sentence for shooting East Texas trooper


TYLER, Texas (AP) -- A Mexican national has been sentenced to 14 life prison terms for a gunfight with police that began after a state trooper was shot during a traffic stop.

Ramon Armando Ramos, 38, pleaded guilty in Smith County Court Tuesday to 14 counts of aggravated assault on a public service officer. The judge ordered Ramos to serve two of the terms consecutively, with the remainder served concurrently. He would be eligible for parole in 60 years.

Ramos admitted shooting Trooper Steven Stone on March 22 after Stone pulled a over a truck containing Ramos and a companion and found marijuana.

Prosecutors said Stone was shot as he began handcuffing Ramos. The altercation was captured on a video camera in Stone's patrol car. Stone was shot three times and is recovering.

Ramos' companion is awaiting trial.

Police said the suspects shot at other police officers during a car chase through Tyler after the shooting.
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Just in case, here is another link...
http://cbs2.com/video/[email protected]

Gunfight with police? I don't think the officer returned fire, did he? If not, then it was a shooting and not a gunfight.

My source here in Texas said the officer was hit 19 times total during the attack. Anyone know if this is accurate?

Bottom line, this is why I don't hold hands with bad guys.
 
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Jury Selected For DPS Trooper Shooting Case

By CASEY KNAUPP, Staff Writer
07/17/2006

A Smith County jury was selected Monday to hear a case against an illegal immigrant charged with shooting a DPS trooper.


Ramon Armando Ramos, 38, is charged with aggravated assault on a public servant for allegedly shooting Texas Department of Public Safety Trooper Steven Stone on March 22.

Evidence in the case is scheduled to begin Tuesday morning in 114th District Judge Cynthia Stevens Kent's court.

Ramos and Francisco Saucedo are each charged with 14 counts of aggravated assault on a public servant with a deadly weapon for allegedly shooting Stone and getting into a shootout with 13 Tyler police officers during a pursuit.

Ramos, a Mexican citizen, has pleaded guilty in federal court to being an illegal alien.

Stone was patrolling Texas Highway 31 when he made a traffic stop on a speeding pickup. During the stop, Saucedo distracted Stone and Ramos allegedly pulled a gun out and began shooting at him, police said.

The men allegedly shot Stone several times and left him on the side of the road. Shortly after, Tyler police located the pickup and engaged in a gun battle during a pursuit that ended when the suspects hit another motorist on Texas 64 East.

Both men were wearing body armor and were armed with multiple weapons.

Smith County District Attorney Matt Bingham is prosecuting the case, while Leslie McLean is defending Ramos.

Texas trooper shot on tape testifies against the man who shot him

A Texas state trooper lived to testify against a man who shot him point blank, several times, and the incident was caught on tape.

The video of the incident in March in Tyler, Texas, shows two men firing at the trooper after they were stopped for speeding.

One of the suspects refused to get back into his vehicle then started firing.

Ramon Ramos pleaded guilty and was sentenced Tuesday to 14 life terms. The other suspect will be tried later.

Trooper Steve Stone testified at his sentencing and said he thought he was going to die. Police caught the suspects after they crashed their vehicle during a chase.

The other suspect, Francisco Saucedo, goes on trial next month. He faces 14 charges of aggravated assault on a public servant.

No way I would ever want to have to make a traffic stop. You can make ninety-nine stops that are nothing, but one that could change your life. My hat's off to my brothers in blue (or black or green or tan for that matter :)) who serve our communities. While it's true that we are responsible for our own safety, they make our job easier by taking on the criminal element.

In my professional capacity, where I can't carry, I'm glad to know that they are there to back me up, just like I'm there for them.

Tex
 
Absolutely infuriating. We need a fast-track to the death penalty for cases as clear-cut as this one.
 
Very sad. Sometimes little mistakes can be fatal. For all you cops out there, try to keep safe.
-Mike
 
Wow . . . . .



I hope those guys get the chair as well. That's pretty horrible. I don't know if it's just me or not, but it seems like the guy's instincts were going off when he kept asking him if he had a weapon etc.

I hope the trooper and his family are well.
 
Horrible to watch, but HIGHLY instructive. It should be required viewing for all LEO's. You'll note he failed to do a proper frisk even after the suspect admitted to having a felony level of weed in his pocket. He turned his back and poked at the drugs, confirming what was already admitted. Then he danced around with the guy and his damn jacket even as the man was highly evasive. The proper approach would have been having both individuals exit at that point at gunpoint from the cover of his cruiser and behind its lights.
 
So then he would have two suspects out and he would be behind his cruiser in the middle of the night. Then what would he do?

Y'all probably don't know it from the long vid if that is all you watched but the trooper survived and testified in court against the driver on 14 counts of assault. That is in the second vid. So, it isn't as sad as it looks other than the trooper had things go south really fast.
 
Trooper Steven Stone is interviewed on The Early Show here.

On March 22, Steven Stone was shot several times at point blank range during a traffic stop by the two occupants of the pickup truck he pulled over.

The drama was recorded on his dashboard camera.

Stone survived injuries to his chest and neck.

On The Early Show Friday, Stone told co-anchor Harry Smith he "originally stopped them for speed(ing). When the suspects finally do stop, I ask the driver to get out, and he leaves his door open. That's a pretty busy road. I didn't want someone to pass by and hit his door. So I go back there to close it. When I do, I see an open bottle of alcohol in the vehicle. I confiscate that, ask the driver if he has any weapons on him. He tells me he has a pocketknife. I take that from him or get that away from him. He gives me a Mexican driver's license, and I was going to go back and run it (through the computer), but I wasn't real comfortable. I start patting him down, and I find drugs (marijuana) in his coat.

"At that point, I was going to place him under arrest, and as I'm putting the handcuffs on him, I notice a pistol magazine in his pocket, and the passenger steps out, and things got real bad from there."

As seen on the video, the two started shooting handguns at Stone. He says the first one hit him in his bulletproof vest. In all, he says he was hit two-to-six times, and rolled down an embankment.

Asked by Smith how he managed to survive, Stone responded, "I wish I could tell you, sir. It's by the grace of God that I'm here and have the ability to talk to you. After that first shot, my vision goes black. I didn't know I had fallen or was rolling down the embankment or anything. I didn't get my vision back 'till I was already down in the embankment, and I -- at that time, I was looking up at them firing down on me."

They kept shooting, Stone says, until they ran out of ammunition.

He just had surgery and told Smith he has "some physical therapy ahead of me before I have an opportunity to go back to work."

Stone adds that he thinks his training also helped him stay alive.

"Everything happened so fast," he told CBS News, "I thought about my family and soon-to-be-two-year-old daughter. We are taught in the training academy, just because you're hurt, doesn't mean you give up and die.

" … I honestly don't remember how I got back to the patrol car. I don't know if I walked or crawled. I just don't know. I just remember reaching for the mike and calling for help."

Two suspects were apprehended after a high-speed chase, authorities say.

Mexican national Ramon Armando Ramos, 38, pleaded guilty earlier this week to 14 counts of aggravated assault on a public servant with a deadly weapon and was sentenced to 14 life terms. Francisco Saucedo faces the same charges in a trial scheduled next month.

During Ramos' trial, Stone testified that, as he was being shot, he thought he was going to die.

Stone told CBS News the judge dealt properly with Ramos. Said Stone, "Considering the injuries I sustained and the total disregard for citizens, I think it's fair."
 
Gunfight with police? I don't think the officer returned fire, did he? If not, then it was a shooting and not a gunfight.

I want to see you shoot back after getting hit half a dozen times.
 
i dont like to second guess any other LEO but i have to say this makes for a good training video.

notice the trooper located drugs (presumably in the vehicle) but had not patted the driver down. the driver had been allowed to stand outside the vehicle without a terry pat down and the trooper found drugs. cops are taught that guns and drugs go hand-in-hand.

also when he goes to make the arrest he does not use any arrest control technique that partially restrains the violator. i was always taught to put the left hand in a twist lock (thus isolating movement down to one hand) and then have the bad guy put his right hand on his head. cuff the right hand and bring it down and around to the left hand. this officer did what 90% of all TX officers do, put your hands behind your back and cuff. no control. action is always faster than reaction.

finally, he does not bring the violator (driver) over towards the patrol car behind the cover of his spotlights/headlights (at night). had he done that, the diversion (passenger) probably would not have seen driver getting hooked up, and that could have bought time.

not trying to second guess anyone. this is an unfortunate event and im glad the bastards got caught, and the officer survived the encounter.

this is also a good video for CCW/CHL holders. it shows one guy can create a diversion while the guy you originally keyed in on shoots.
 
Bad procedure.

The officer had probable cause, therefore he should have called for backup. He was either nervous or complacent and disregarded procedure and his own safety. Cuff first, search after.

Helluva way to learn a lesson.
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Disclaimer and question

First: Big disclaimer. Ain't a cop, never been trained.

Question: Isn't there something in the training about having the suspect move his feet back about 3-4 feet from the vehicle before cuffing him? Someone who had had training showed me this one time. With your feet that far back from the vehicle,when the officer moves one arm behind suspect's back to put on the cuffs, suspect is leaning against the car supported only by his remaining hand. If he tries to do anything shifty with that remaining hand, the first thing that happens is that he plants his face right against the vehicle. It appears from the video that this is where the officer lost control. As suspect #2 exits the vehicle, suspect #1 is standing flat footed with left arm behind back for cuffing. While officer addresses suspect #2, suspect #1 is able to easily pull out a pistol. With that arm hidden by his body and the officer looking at suspect #2, the officer had no chance. Suspect #1 wouldn't be able to do that if he was using that right arm to keep himself upright, would he?

Could some of you with LE experience help me on this?

Thanks,

frayluisfan
 
Surprising forbearance

Though I'm sure by doing so he was justifiable, rationally preventing a more immediate violent response, I have to say I'm impressed by the calm with which the police officer here was dealing with the (as it turns out) violent thugs. As several people have noted, this video could be well used in training -- but not only because of the bad outcome. Note: Yes, I watched it, and I know that things didn't turn out well (glad the officer's OK!), but for one cop against two people armed with at least one gun and one knife, I think he was doing an admirably good job of staying calm; at several points, you can see his hand on his holster -- easy to imagine (incompletely) the stream of competing thoughts he must have been wrestling with. Possibly provoke a reaction? Or keep everything easy-peasy? Especially after the fellow casually admits he's carrying "weed," and says (iirc) "I do that."

Drug laws in the U.S. I think are insane, but since both sides of this confrontation are aware of them, that's like saying "You could arrest me, and I know it." The insanity of the policy got the policeman grievously hurt here, but it's not his task to dismantle it, I realize. Just a good thing the criminal here didn't have more lethal aim.

Related: Like many people, I have deep ambivalence towards the police -- as an armed branch of the civilian government, they represent an inevitably dangerous and corruptable organization, but the individual officers I've dealt with personally in Texas (a place I've lived on and off for about 8 years total) have been universally courteous and pleasant towards me, not the obnoxious, arrogant blowhards I've hit in some other states. Individuals vary, of course, and I've heard plenty of Texas DPS horror stories. But in New Jersey, I bet both of the car's occupants would have been on the ground, with bruises, about 30 seconds into the tape ;)

timothy
 
I want to see you shoot back after getting hit half a dozen times.

It isn't about me, or you for that matter, or whether or not we could shoot after being shoot X number of times.

It is about the definition of what is or is not a gunfight. The key part of the term (or phrase if written as such) is the "fight" part of it. You have a shooting when one side fires. You have a gunfight when there is an exchange of fire by oppositional forces. The incident was called a gunfight, but I didn't see any evidence of the officer returning fire. You seem to agree that he did not fire either as noted by your misguided challenge. If we are correct that the officer did not fire, it is a shooting, not a gunfight.

Thanks XavierBreath for the hits insight. I sort of wonder how it is the cop was unable to ascertain how many times he was struck. 2-6 times seems rather vague. There should have been the appropriate damage to the vest or his person to indicate the number of times he was hit.

Of course, it was better than the "19" I was told. Apparently the person from whom I rec'd the information did not distinguish between "shot" and "shot at."

From the article "Mexican national"; does that equal illegal immigrant?

Uh, no, answerguy, "Mexican national" does not mean illegal immigrant. It means the guy is a Mexican citizen. He may be in the US legally or illegally and be a Mexican national just like any othe foreign national. You become a foreign national when you visit another country as you are a person not of that country. Being a foreign doesn't mean immigrant either. You can be an immigrant, but you may be simply on holiday.

FYI, the US military has legal foreign nationals who are US soldiers.
 
I'm not a cop either but I can tell you that with that many red flags in rapid succession, that officer is lucky that God sometimes smiles on the stupid.

DWI? Felony stop.
Suspect has a bag of weed? Felony stop.

Now, I would have done things differently, and it's really easy to airchair quarterback after the fact, but come on! Everything about that situation told me "Pistol out of scabbard, suspect #1 spread-eagle face down with a very stern warning and suspect #2 placing his hands outside of the vehicle where I can see them. Exit slowly #2 or I, and my Glock here, will become upset at you."

Complacency kills, my friends...
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
 
Thanks XavierBreath for the hits insight. I sort of wonder how it is the cop was unable to ascertain how many times he was struck. 2-6 times seems rather vague. There should have been the appropriate damage to the vest or his person to indicate the number of times he was hit.
It did seem rather strange, didn't it? Perhaps the vest took some damage from the fall and they were unable to determine whether rocks or bullets caused the damage.
 
XavierBreath
Quote:
Thanks XavierBreath for the hits insight. I sort of wonder how it is the cop was unable to ascertain how many times he was struck. 2-6 times seems rather vague. There should have been the appropriate damage to the vest or his person to indicate the number of times he was hit.

It did seem rather strange, didn't it? Perhaps the vest took some damage from the fall and they were unable to determine whether rocks or bullets caused the damage.

This is a fairly well known physiological fact among martial artists, actually. Under stress the brain has the potential to temporarily turn off the pain receptors as part of it's "Fight or Flight" mechanism. Once you get to a certain point, the brain will stop the pain receptors in that are for about 3-5 seconds provided the wound isn't so greivous that it simply can't do it to such a large area.
This is why many martial arts, despite giving training to do so, tend to teach their students not to break joints during joint locks. I had a situation when I was bouncing where a drunk football player broke his own finger to get out of a finger lock I had applied to start moving him towards the door. There was this sickening wet pop and he grabbed my collar not realising his finger was totalled. I had backpedalled into a table, he outweighted me by about 40 lbs, and simply applied my knuckles in a grinding motion to the damaged joint until pain reception was restored.

Screeched like a little girl and fell right to his knees...
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
 
gun in holster

i can't guess why the officer didn't have his weapon out but wonder if the diarming manner of the suspect played a role or if there is so much pressure to be pc that he waited longer than might be wise. those 2 sobs should get the best texas can give em. made me angry to watch and was happily surprised that officer is recovering
 
Body language

Driver's body language throw a lot of red flags from the beginning.

Like him fumbling around, dropping the weed bag, etc...

Is there any LEO policy prohibiting LE from making driver take that damn leather trench coat off from the moment of stepping out of the vehicle?

This kind of BS is why the illegal immigrants should all be deported until they proven themselves otherwise.

Our country has shown a lot of restraints against these types of lowlifes despite our size and perceived power. Other country (and particularly Mexico) would have someone doing that crap executed if committed by an illegal FN (Foreign National; no, FN in this case doesn't stand for Fabrique Nationales, sorry guys...lol).
 
This is a fairly well known physiological fact among martial artists, actually. Under stress the brain has the potential to temporarily turn off the pain receptors as part of it's "Fight or Flight" mechanism. Once you get to a certain point, the brain will stop the pain receptors in that are for about 3-5 seconds provided the wound isn't so greivous that it simply can't do it to such a large area.

So this is how you explain why the trooper, in the post trial interview, could not give the exact number of times he was shot (2-6) 4+ months after the incident and after the driver's conviction? Given he was treated by medical doctors for wounds, he would have to know what sort of wound he received, which were gunshot wounds, etc.
 
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