Trouble deciding/prioritizing

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chaim

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
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3,846
Location
Columbia, MD
This isn't a traditional "which should I get" thread as I'm probably going to eventually buy 1/2 to 2/3 of what is on this list. It is more a situation where I'm having trouble prioritizing my next revolver purchase. I've been concentrating a lot more on my autos and carry needs and I have some big holes in my revolver collection. As you'll see in my discussion, even in these (mostly) medium frame revolvers, carry considerations are still complicating my decision making.

So this post isn't unmanageable I'll start with the priorities, and add the guns I'm considering in the next post.

Priority 1: A 4" revolver
It recently occurred to me that I haven't had a 4" .38spl or .357mag for at least 10-15 years when I had to sell my S&W 19 (P&R, it pains me to think about it). The only 4" revolver I have right now is a .45LC (S&W 626MG). A 4" is a fun length (even though I like a 3" better), it will get a little more velocity out of the round and thus better penetration and expansion in a defensive JHP, and it would make a great home defense gun. A 4" K-frame or L-frame would also be lighter than my 625MG and get more out of the .357mag than my 3" guns making it a better woods gun for around here (where large bears aren't much of a worry). However, I do like 3" revolvers more, and compared to the 1 7/8 and 2" revolvers a 3" doesn't lose as much velocity vs. a 4". Most of the info I could find online where it was actually compared, once you get to about 2.5", the differences from gun to gun variation were greater than the differences from barrel length.

Priority 2: A .357mag
I love shooting .357mag and I haven't shot a lot of it in a long time. My S&W 65LS has well over 10K rounds (I stopped counting at 10K around 16 or 17 years ago), and for a while, I shot a lot of magnums through it. I don't know what year S&W fixed the forcing cone issue with K-frame magnums, and I love this gun. So, I rarely shoot magnums out of it for fear of a cracked forcing cone. My Colt King Cobra is a small framed revolver (Colt's D-frame is roughly halfway between a K-frame and a J-frame), and at 28oz it is a bit light for all but the lightest .357mag unless I only want to shoot a cylinder or two. So, a new K-frame (my understanding is they strengthened the forcing cone when the re-released the K-frames a few years back), an L-frame or similar would let me shoot a lot more of my favorite cartridge again.

BTW: Because of the potential forcing cone issue, I'm only considering a S&W K-frame if it is new or the newer production guns if used.

Priority 3: A home defense revolver
I have other HD guns. However, I don't use the 625MG as much as I planned (it is too large for my quick access safes so it stays locked in my main safe), the Colt, J-frames and Taurus small framed revolvers are a little smaller and lighter than ideal for home defense. Even shooting .38+P, a 30 some ounce revolver will better manage the recoil and allow for faster follow up shots (not saying the Colt or steel framed Taurus 85 are bad, just a heavier gun would be better). The longer barrel length and sight radius should result in better practical accuracy.

Priority 3: Carry
While this won't be primarily a carry gun (with one of the guns I'm considering being an exception), I have that covered, several I'm considering would sometimes be pushed into that role. I don't think I've bought a gun in the last 10 years without it having some utility as a potential carry gun, well, not until I bought 3 steel framed, full sized 1911s this past fall (I am selling my least favorite of the two .45s, the Colt Gold Cup Match, and it may help finance one or two of the guns on this current list). Also, it will often be carried when camping or fishing (and maybe when kayaking).

Priority 4: Cost
Cost is always a factor, and I've bought a lot of guns lately. So, the more inexpensive the better, so long as it is a decent gun.
 
The guns:

Primary options:
S&W 19/66:
This would be new production (see above concerns about the forcing cone) so I could shoot as much magnums through it as I want. I will eventually get an older S&W 19 as the bluing was terrific on them. However, on current production I'm not sure between the stainless and blued as today's bluing is probably not up to the standards of decades past. Between the two, I'd probably go with whichever I saw first in person (S&W QC isn't what it used to be from what I've read, so I'd like to be able to look over the revolver before buying if possible). This would even be (barely) concealable when I feel like going with magnums.

S&W 586:
This could be new or old production as the L-frames never had the forcing cone issue (they were introduced as a beefed up medium frame because of the problems with .357mag K-frames). If I go with a 6 round L-frame this would be the way I'd go over the 6 round 686 as I prefer a blued revolver (and I'd probably go used as well).

S&W 686 Plus:
I love the idea of a 7 round revolver. I prefer higher capacity, but I also love revolvers, and this is as high capacity I can go and stay with a medium framed revolver. However, I do hear that reloading the 7 round L-frames with a speed loader can be a bit tricky and there aren't as many available (I think HKS is the only one that makes them). I've long wanted a 3", but most likely this purchase will be a 4". They are enough money, I'm not sure I'm buying one of each, so I'd rather hold off and get the 3" (or get the 3" now) and get something else in my 4" .38/.357. However, this is a good option, so I may eventually do both a 3" and 4" 686 Plus. It would be a bit heavy for all but the most occasional carry (and for short periods), but it would be doable within reason.

Taurus 66:
I am aware of their past issues (I've had issues with a post-Taurus buy out Rossi), and they also seem to have improved quite a bit over the last couple years. They are a lot less money, and would leave more money for the 3" 685 Plus I've been eyeing for a decade or more. This would be a solid 7 shot medium frame .357mag. Definitely appealing.


Honorable mentions/don't quite meet my above priorities:

Taurus 82:
No, it isn't a .357mag (and wouldn't be a woods gun), but a Taurus 82 was my first gun and I've regretted selling it for about 20 years. It would make a great home defense gun. For home defense I'd only load .38+P anyway (I don't do magnums indoors), and even if I do buy a .357mag it will likely see .38spl/.38+P for 70-80% of its rounds.

S&W Model 10:
See above (other than the 1st gun stuff, though this is what my first gun would have been if I had a little more money when I made the purchase). I've never had one, and I really should being a fan of classic Smith revolvers.

Taurus 856 Defender (probably the Executive Grade):
See the Taurus 82 entry re. the caliber. It would be a great carry gun, that could double as a home defense gun (though I'd likely just use my heavier Colt King Cobra in that role until I got a new medium framed revolver). The biggest positive as a HD gun is that I'd have a night sight (the Exec. Grade doesn't come with one, but I already have a night sight for the 856 that I bought before I realized my aluminum 856UL is the only model of the 856 without a pinned front sight). I definitely plan to get one, it is only a question if the HD revolver comes first.

S&W 66 Combat Master:
It only has a 2.75" barrel (which isn't a bad length), but otherwise checks all the boxes. The cylinder is only 0.04" wider than my 856UL or the potential 856 Defender, and it is barely longer than the 856 Defender, so it would be quite carryable. Though, it is a bit heavy so it would only be carried occasionally and for no more than a few hours at a time.
 
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chaim said:
S&W 66 Combat Master:
It only has a 2.75" barrel (which isn't a bad length), but otherwise checks all the boxes. The cylinder is only 0.04" wider than my 856UL or the potential 856 Defender, and it is barely longer than the 856 Defender, so it would be quite carryable. Though, it is a bit heavy so it would only be carried occasionally and for no more than a few hours at a time.
Click to expand...

This is my favorite pick of what you listed. I have an old school 2.5" barreled 66-2. It's a bit heavy for carry compared to similar sized polymer autoloaders, but it doesn't feel bad at all with a thick gun belt and an OWB holster.

I like the idea of the new 66 2.75" barrel as a good all purpose knock about revolver. edited
 
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chicharrones said:
This is my favorite pick of what you listed. I have an old school 2.5" barreled 66-2. It's a bit heavy for carry compared to similar sized polymer autoloaders, but it doesn't feel bad at all with a thick gun belt and an OWB holster.

I like the idea of the new 66 2.75" barrel as a good all purpose knock about revolver. Dang, I just noticed it's no longer on S&Ws website. o_O
Click to expand...

Its still there:
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/model-66-combat-magnum-
 
I also have a list. It use to be a priority revolver list. Then the Silliness happened and guns that were on my priority list got scarce. I made a couple of mistakes. I passed on low priority guns to wait for high priority guns. Now I have none from my revolver priority list. So I just have a list. Whichever from my list that I encounter first I will buy regardless of it’s former standing on the list.
 
It doesn't appear that you are considering the Ruger GP-100. I have one in .357 with the 4" barrel. I found the longer 6" ones to be "nose heavy", even with good grips.
The only problem with this gun is the cylinder gap is 0.009", right at the upper end of Ruger's specs. If you opt for a revolver, be sure to take a set of feeler gauges with you and CHECK any gun's gap.

GP-100 Rt. side.jpg
 
Buy a police trade-in Taurus Model 82 for under $300 to shoot while you're deciding. It'll be worth about that when you get your "real revolver", and if you get lucky on the trigger you might never replace it. (I lucked out and got a really nice 3" one last month.)

I own or have owned a lot of medium-framed 38/357 revolvers. Just picking them off a list isn't the best method unless you already know how they fit your hands. If the OP already knows that S&W K/L frames fit their hands well, then the list makes perfect sense. Also keep in mind that triggers vary from revolver to revolver, even if they're the same model and manufacturer. Revolver A isn't always better than Revolver B. It depends on the particular examples.

If I could only have one centerfire handgun for HD and as a range toy, it would probably be a 4" 38/357. They're kinda large and annoying to carry, but if it's for hiking or general outdoors use I get it.

I'm lucky enough to have two Taurus Model 66 variants that are as nice to shoot as most of my Smiths.

My medium-framed Smiths have all been good. I would buy another one (and probably will). All of them on the OP's list would doubtless be just fine.

My Ruger Match Champion GP100 is a 4" 357 with an exquisite trigger. Didn't see them on the list. They're L frame size, IIRC. They're kinda spendy, though.

The members of this board have educated me over time, and I pretty much expect to put new grips and new springs onto/into any revolver I buy. I've also learned to prefer used revolvers to new ones. Most of my revolvers are from the late 20th century and were bought used with some finish wear but hadn't been shot a lot. In my experience, used revolvers in that category have been less likely to be defective than brand-new ones.

Taurus82

Taurus82


Ruger GP100 Match Champion

Ruger GP100 Match Champion

 

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JTHunter said:
It doesn't appear that you are considering the Ruger GP-100. I have one in .357 with the 4" barrel. I found the longer 6" ones to be "nose heavy", even with good grips.
The only problem with this gun is the cylinder gap is 0.009", right at the upper end of Ruger's specs. If you opt for a revolver, be sure to take a set of feeler gauges with you and CHECK any gun's gap.

View attachment 1144258
Click to expand...

Agreed
 
As for 4" revolvers, I tend to gravitate to S&W N-Frame offerings. Based on hand size, the K/L Frames seem a bit diminutive to me. Here are a couple of mine, two of which are .357 Magnum; a Model 27-3 and a 28-2. Solid shooters.

51029840306_bfb9028b0c_o.jpg
 
JTHunter said:
It doesn't appear that you are considering the Ruger GP-100. I have one in .357 with the 4" barrel. I found the longer 6" ones to be "nose heavy", even with good grips.
The only problem with this gun is the cylinder gap is 0.009", right at the upper end of Ruger's specs. If you opt for a revolver, be sure to take a set of feeler gauges with you and CHECK any gun's gap.

View attachment 1144258
Click to expand...

I have nothing against Ruger revolvers, I've just never owned one and I prefer S&W (or Taurus when I'm on a budget). The biggest reason I may end up with one is they are about $150-200 less than a 586 or 686, and I'd rather pay an extra $200 for the Smith, or save another $200 and get the Taurus. Still, I've owned a lot of revolvers, Ruger has a very dedicated following, so one of these days I should see what all the fuss is about and get one. Heck, Glock never appealed to me, but this past fall I finally bought one (figuring that with the number of handguns I own and have owned in the past, I should give them a chance). Now I have three (one is not yet in my possession, the FFL ordered for me and when it comes in the MD waiting period begins), and have my eye on another. Who knows, maybe Ruger revolvers will be the same for me.

Tallball said:
I own or have owned a lot of medium-framed 38/357 revolvers. Just picking them off a list isn't the best method unless you already know how they fit your hands. If the OP already knows that S&W K/L frames fit their hands well, then the list makes perfect sense. Also keep in mind that triggers vary from revolver to revolver, even if they're the same model and manufacturer. Revolver A isn't always better than Revolver B. It depends on the particular examples.
Click to expand...

I have owned a lot of revolvers, but only a few medium framed revolvers. I consider the Colt D-frame a small frame, but it is about halfway between a J-frame and K-frame and it holds 6 rounds, so if you count them, there is the Colt Police Positive Special I used to own and the new model King Cobra I now have. The Rossi 461 is similar and I have a 2" and a 3" (both are being sold). My first handgun was a Taurus 82. Then came the S&W 65LS that I still have (I've had it over 20 years). I strongly miss my P&R Model 19 and my 586-M (the first generation had a recall, the M means it had the modifications done) that I let go over a decade ago when I needed the money more than the guns. Nothing handles better for me than a 3" K-frame, though a 4" is close. I also have some experience with N-frames: my favorite handgun I ever owned was the first year Model 57 I had to sell (about the same time as the M19 and M586), and I have had a S&W 625MG for about a decade plus or minus a few years. I also shot a few Model 10s and Model 64s, though it has been a long time now (20+ years). I've owned both square butt and round butt K and L frames, I've shot S&W and Taurus revolvers with Magna Grips, old factory target grips, combat grips and boot grips (of several different styles). I have a large hand and medium length fingers, I haven't found a revolver yet that didn't fit my hands (though a J-frame with thinner boot grips can be a bit challenging).

I do know how different revolvers can vary. I love the trigger on my King Cobra, I didn't really like it on the Police Positive Special (hence selling it after a year or two, not when finances forced it as with the S&Ws I sold), my Taurus 85CH has one of the lightest DA revolver triggers I've ever shot, while my Taurus 856UL is only OK (a bit smoother, but much heavier than the 85CH). I've never had a bad S&W trigger, though the 442's trigger isn't great (just average). My 2" Rossi's cylinder will sometimes bind when shooting magnums, I've never had that problem with the 3" (but I don't trust it). All my other revolvers have been 100% reliable, and I've never had a problem with a range rental, though I've handled both Taurus and S&W revolvers at the gunshop that were off (lock up or trigger issues are about all you can see at the gunshop, so others may have had a problem too if I was able to shoot them).
 
I almost bought an older Taurus 82 and S&W 19-MOD (-1 with recall mods done) today. I was putting some guns on consignment that I was planning to sell for a while, and they had two of the four guns I've regretted selling over the years.

I tried the trigger on the M19 and forgot how nice it was. This gun was in almost new condition. Being $1300, and the original K-frame .357mags, I decided against it (I don't want to the spend that much right now, and it will have the forcing cone issue of the original K-frame magnums if I shoot a lot of .357mag from it). Maybe if it is still there when one or two of my more expensive consignment guns sells I may put in an offer, but I will still be looking for a more robust .357mag as per my original post.

I tried the trigger on the Taurus and the SA trigger is great, but it is a DA revolver. The DA pull was definitely heavier than I'd like. If I remember right, the trigger in my original 82 was similar. It was only $350 so I may go back for it, is nostalgia worth $350? I think I'd rather spend a little more (but not all that much more) and have new production (from what I've seen over the last few years, the trigger on newer Taurus revolvers is a lot better), or spend a bit more than that and get the S&W M10 when I get a medium frame .38spl.

I'm off to another FFL in a few minutes, my Glock 44 I ordered came in so we can start the paperwork on the MD waiting period. I'll check to see what they have in stock in revolvers.
 
I vote for the 586/686.

I like the way blued guns look also but considering this, "it will often be carried when camping or fishing (and maybe when kayaking)" I'd go with the 686.

PS, I wouldn't shoot a .357 indoors
 
I almost bought a used 6" Ruger GP100 today. Not quite what I'm looking for, and the price (if it was just the gun) wasn't terrific ($750), but it included 200 rounds of ammo so it was a decent deal. I didn't because when I asked to dry fire, I was told no, not with revolvers (but it would have been fine if it was an auto). Sure, they have the right not to let you dry fire, and I might have understood if it was a collectable and/or in NIB condition (i.e. no turn line), but I'm not buying a revolver without checking the trigger pull and lockup, and this gun had definitely been fired and/or dry fired quite a few times (it had a pronounced turn line).

Oh, they also have a 4" EAA Windicator .357mag. I've never paid too close attention to the Windicator, and I didn't ask to see it after learning that this store doesn't let you dry fire revolvers to check the trigger, but what do you all think of the Windicator? Finding available 4" used L-frames or new K-frame (and similar) .357mag revolvers locally is proving to be tougher than I thought it would be.

Given the limited hours of most gun shops in my area (6 or 7pm on weeknights, 3 or 4 on Saturdays, closed Sunday), the fact that they are pretty spread out, and the fact that revolvers aren't as common as they once were (other than snubs, most stores that have revolvers only have 2 or 3, some have none), I may have to wait until I can get to a gun show or buy online.


Edit: Never mind on the Windicator, they are lighter than I want for this. If I'm going to go lighter than a K-frame, I'd probably go with the 4" King Cobra Target.
 
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My FiL has a 6" GP100 that has a nice trigger.

If you run into one and can dry fire it and you like it, they are good revolvers. I got a 4" recently and am pleased with it.
 
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