True or False: .45acp or 10mm For HD

10mm Blast No Worse Than .45acp

  • True

    Votes: 6 7.9%

  • False

    Votes: 70 92.1%
  • Total voters
    76
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LaneP said:
Either that salesman wanted to move an idle gun or has no experience firing either cartridge.
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I recently tried to help out an older fellow in my LGS who owned a Taurus Judge and was told by the previous owner that he needed .45 "long" Colt. Only.
Period.

Probably should have minded my own business but I felt obliged (very respectfully, almost timidly) to point out the rather large stack of ".45 Colt" marked boxes were the same thing and the "Long" part was a misnomer.

They both looked at me like I had a lobster on my head and chastised me for not "staying in my lane" and, in fact, trying to put the customer in a dangerous situation because of something that I obviously had no idea what I was talking about.

Sad. Tried to do the right thing.
Next time I'll keep my mouth shut and MMOB.
 
JeffG said:
If you shoot it without hearing protection,your ears get used to it.
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That is only because you are going deaf the more you shoot without any type of hearing protection.

We didn't wear ear plugs in combat and I am paying for it now with tinnitus and hearing loss. I now have to wear hearing aids because of not using proper hearing protection.

To the OP, Yes 10mm will be louder than 45 when shot indoors. You can take two of the exact same pistols , one chambered in 10mm and the other in 10mm, and the 10 mm will be louder.

Even the 22WMR is very loud when shot at indoor ranges. You definitely want to use both ear plugs and muffs when shooting at indoor ranges no matter what calibers are being shot.
 
Crazy Horse said:
I have a LE turn in with the 4.25 barrel and a shield 45. Both are awesome. Naturally the one with the longer barrel is more accurate as you go out, but the shield 45 is excellent for CC.

CH
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I'm with you on the Shield. Love mine. I'm not sure the recoil pulse, +/- penetration, and ammo cost of the 10mm is worth the trade off. But then, I don't own a 10 of any size or shape, so YMMV.

-jb, Crazy Horse, great sig line from Jefferson
 
The difference in decibel rating is insignificant as is the difference in performance of the two cartridges projectiles to incapacitate an deadly threat inside of a home defense situation. If muzzle blast is a consideration keep stereo electronic hearing protectors with your handgun, like i do. My hearing in my right ear is reduced by about 20 decibels, left ear about 12 (along with tinnitus). When I wear stereo hearing protectors to hear (I can actually discern the direction that a sound originates); it is like wearing glasses so see.
Many of the top performing 45 acp or 10mm auto rounds should perform similarly to incapacitate a deadly human threat given the same point of impact and bullet path consistent with penetration for the round considered. The difference shot to shot of the same cartridge is about the same as the difference between cartridges in ballistic gel (single digit percent quantitatively). The two benefits of a 10mm auto is perhaps a minimal increase in magazine capacity and slightly greater crush cone (the volume of vascular tissue that is destroyed and therefore causes hemorrhaging and loss of function) .

Handguns should be considered as a convenience to use as you fight your way to your battle rifle. I submit that all "defensive" handguns are under powered. That is why all training teaches to shoot twice (some teach three times) to center of mass, assess, and proceed as necessary.
 
Here's the thing. Both are going to suck without hearing protection. It's like drifting offshore 5 miles or 30 miles. I ain't swimming to shore either way and I'm hosed either way.
 
bangswitch said:
If you reload, it's relatively easy to get 10mm Auto loads that are very similar to .45 Auto loads. Use a 200 grain JHP loaded to around 800-850 fps. You still have the ability to ramp those up significantly if you want or need to. I've got 1911's in both .45 and 10mm, I shoot the 10mm more than twice as much.

But yeah, indoors or out, standard 10mm is a lot louder than .45. If the noise bothers you indoors, wear plugs inside a set of electronic muffs.
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Why would one buy the superior ballastics of the 10mm, and then dumb it down to .45 ACP levels?

10mm at 850fps, you have an inferior round to the .45, if only for the smaller hole you are punching and possible bleed points you will miss. Plus the inertia of a 230gr round.
 
Blue1 said:
Why would one buy the superior ballastics of the 10mm, and then dumb it down to .45 ACP levels?

10mm at 850fps, you have an inferior round to the .45, if only for the smaller hole you are punching and possible bleed points you will miss. Plus the inertia of a 230gr round.
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There are a lot of reasons to download. Gentler shooting at the range, quieter (if subsonic), home defense with less penetration potential of walls, more convenient if you reload and also have a .40S&W (same dies and bullets), and I'm sure there are lots more. 10mm Auto at the same velocity as a .45 Auto is not an inferior round. You're looking at a diameter difference of 0.05", so missing "possible bleed points" doesn't make much sense if you put the bullets in the same spot. The sectional density of a 200 grain 10mm JHP is greater than the SD of a 230 grain .45 JHP, so given the same velocity, the 10mm will penetrate better, so inertia doesn't play into the equation, except maybe initial impact shock.

You can play with 10mm loads to get a wide range of power potential, up to and almost equal to .357 Magnum
 
I have the Tanfoglio's in 10mm and 45 ACP. When I'm at the range, indoor or out, I'm always asked, "What are you shooting over there". The Witness Hunter in 10mm gets all of the attention.

Tanfoglio.JPG
 
I would use the number 1 manstopper a .357 magnum for home defense were it not for the muzzle blast and deafening report. 10mm is about the same.
Instead I choose a 1911 in 45 ACP because big & slow is the way to go. :p
 
The gunstore employee is an object lesson in not believing what such folks tell you. I've seen gunstores peddle a .40 instead of a 9 because it is 'better', but the .40 had been gathering dust, and they wanted to move it along. (I know some folks still love their .40s, not now, not now...)
If a .45 ACP doesn't have enough stopping power for home defense, better keep a shotgun or an AR close at hand.
It seems to me that a 10mm makes a great hunting round, with a lighter pistol, and milder recoil, than a .44 Magnum.
Now if the OP, or anyone, simply wants a 10, that's an entirely different question.
Moon
 
I voted true.

I'm sure the 10mm may louder, but, in the heat of a life/death struggle, I don't think that's something that would bother me.

However - what do I know? I never fired a 10mm - I do carry a .44 magnum though & it's on the loud side.

Thus is not a matter for subjective opinion. It is something that can be measured.

BTW, the answer is "false"
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I thought that was possible to find out how they compare myself - but - there's not any definitive data that puts one above the other all the time.
If there is, then by all means post some links to some sound levels.

My personal experience is that "king of the loud sounds fired indoors" is the 12 ga shotgun - yet- look at the sheer volume of people say "get a 12 ga for HD".
 
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Hal said:
I'm sure the 10mm may louder, but, in the heat of a life/death struggle, I don't think that's something that would bother me.
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That is your smallest concern.
Hal said:
there's not any definitive data that puts one above the other all the time.
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the data exist--the sound pressures are measurable. 45ACP.. The sound pressure of a 10mm is a whole lot higher than that of a .Understanding the data requires a knowledge of the physics of sound pressure.

From the standpoint of sound pressure, a .46ACP is preferable to a 9mm Parabellum. For controllability, the 9MM is better.
 
the data exist--the sound pressures are measurable. 45ACP.. The sound pressure of a 10mm is a whole lot higher than that of a .Understanding the data requires a knowledge of the physics of sound pressure.
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Really?
I think anyone can understand that if something is 160 db and something else is 150 db,, that the higher figure is louder.
I looked for about an hour though and can't find anything that puts the 10mm at a higher db figure than the .45 acp - on a consistent basis.
 
10mm is louder, no doubt there. I've shot plenty of 45s and 10mms of the same barrel length. 10mm is louder.

However, if you load your own, you could download the 10mm to 45 acp velocities if desired, and really everyone should have a set of muffs next to their bedside gun.

Of course that won't protect family and pet hearing.
 
Blue1 said:
Why would one buy the superior ballastics of the 10mm, and then dumb it down to .45 ACP levels?
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The velocity variability of the 10mm when loading your own is one of the reasons 10mm is a fantastic reloading/hand loading cartridge. At in home SD distances the diameter difference in the bullets are IMO too small to really alter the outcome. However, 10mm handguns of the same size as their 45 acp equivalent often hold a few more rounds of ammo.

bangswitch said:
There are a lot of reasons to download. Gentler shooting at the range, quieter (if subsonic), home defense with less penetration potential of walls, more convenient if you reload and also have a .40S&W (same dies and bullets), and I'm sure there are lots more. 10mm Auto at the same velocity as a .45 Auto is not an inferior round. You're looking at a diameter difference of 0.05", so missing "possible bleed points" doesn't make much sense if you put the bullets in the same spot. The sectional density of a 200 grain 10mm JHP is greater than the SD of a 230 grain .45 JHP, so given the same velocity, the 10mm will penetrate better, so inertia doesn't play into the equation, except maybe initial impact shock.

You can play with 10mm loads to get a wide range of power potential, up to and almost equal to .357 Magnum
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Blue1, read this ^^^ if you haven't already. bangswitch is correct in my opinion. The sectional density of the same weight bullet will be thicker on the 10mm and at those velocities and distances may still pass all the way through. blasting through your target faster may in fact aid in quicker incapacitation, but will it be enough of a difference to alter the outcome? We hopefully will never know.

But this is all accdemic and off topic.

The answer to the original question is false. 45 acp and 10mm are not the same in noise levels, unless you alter the scenario for downloaded 10mm.

It's kind of like asking if a Corvette and a Camry go the same speed. Sure, if you don't put the peddal down hard on the vette.
 
Serious Injury Range (115 dB to 140 dB)
dB Rating Sound Exposure (hours per day)
120 Rock concert (front row)
125 Cymbal crash; loudest human scream
130 Jet engine taking off; air raid siren
135 Firecracker
140 Shotgun blast directly beside ear
Deadly Range (140 dB to 200 dB)

Forget hearing damage — these sounds will give you permanent everything damage. Below about 170 dB, ear protection can still save you, but store-bought earplugs and earmuffs won’t be enough. You’re also likely to start having other problems with whatever is creating the noise (here’s a hint: don’t stand next to a pound of TNT).

Deadly Range (140 dB to 200 dB)
dB Rating Sound Exposure (hours per day)
150 Formula One car at full throttle Ø
160 Inside jet engine Ø
170 7,000-HP engine Ø
180 1 pound of TNT detonating 15 feet away Ø
190 Grenade blast epicenter Ø
200 Causes immediate death Ø
 
In an actual HD situation I doubt blast is going to be worth worrying about.

45 or 10mm would both work.
 
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