Looking at my picture on a full-sized screen, I can definitely see that I'm having some issues in the curve of the tip.
Try my hand at free hand sharpening
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I'll echo something @JohnKSa said earlier, though. I spend my entire workweek glued to a computer monitor, so it's kind of relaxing to do something that doesn't involve a screen.
For me it's the pull stroke that gives me more control. That's because I can see the blade/stone contact better during the pull and so I can keep the angle more constant.
If you are having trouble getting the angle consistent, you can make yourself a very simple guide--something as simple as cutting a little nub of pencil eraser off and sticking it on the stone at one end. Then set the angle by laying the edge on the stone and the spine on the nub of pencil eraser. That gets you a consistent starting point, then you just hold that constant through the stroke.
I seem to do better on the pull stroke, but it's as much about being able to see the edge on the stone as it is about control.
And you may have said this earlier, but what "lower quality" stones are you using?
Are you talking about scraping the edge of the blade off the side of the stone? Or scraping the edge off of the knife, as in dulling the blade?
That's brilliant.
Oh, and Mrs. McGee is out of town, so I'll be doing some sharpening and post pics later. I have some Honey-do's to get done first.
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SteadyD
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I scraped the edge against the stone to fully dull the knife so I could be certain I was actually resharpening instead of touching it up. I’m using some worksharp stones that aren’t very smooth. They don’t seem as diamond rich as my KME or wicked edge stones.
I have a pile of bricks at the back of my driveway, so I used one of those. Makes 'em real dull, real fast.
It was not a great day at the sharpening stones for me.
I found this polish in the close out section of my local WM. It’s not Mother’s, which bikerdoc recommended, but for $1.47, it might be worth trying.
After 25-30 strokes on a brick, the edge of my Ka Bar does not look any different, but it will not cut paper. Sufficiently dull.
First up, the coarse diamond stone. This is probably overkill, to be honest, but I want the edge back relatively quickly. So I break out the Sharpie. Ten light-pressure pull strokes in, I can feel the burr starting to form. The base gives me about an extra 1/2” clearance to work and does not budge. Did I mention you should get the base, @SteadyD?
As you can see, there’s part of my blade where I’m not quite hitting the edge. That might be a little “wallering” that I (or maybe a previous owner) introduced. I guess if I sharpen the rest of the blade long enough, that will even out.
About another 10 passes on each side, and I am cutting paper sharp. Time to move on. I have a 600 grit diamond stone, but at this point, I think I’ll move to a 400 grit water stone. I soaked it as directed, and keep a small bowl of water on the table. I just splash a few drops on now and then. I mark the blade again. It’s much smoother now.
As might be imagined, this stone is nowhere near as aggressive as the coarse diamond. 25 passes in, still no burr. I just keep working, taking time to monitor the edge, making sure I’m getting rid of the Sharpie. I completely lose track of the number of strokes, but eventually, I get a burr. Now I just keep working until it is the full length of the blade. Rinse and repeat with push strokes. Oddly, the blade actually seems duller now. Clearly, I’ve gone astray. That’s why I’m doing this, though, right?
Sharpie the blade & go again. This time, I decide to see if I’m any better with the medium Arkansas stone. After 15-20 passes on each side, I can tell it’s getting better. A quick paper test confirms this. I’m beginning to think different metals just do “like” different stones. On to the Arkansas fine.
After working on that for a while, I gave up (for the moment) and got out the fine diamond plate. When I finished (inadvertently) re-dulling the edge, I started the process all over again with the coarse diamond plate. *sigh* After I had it back to paper-cutting sharp, I went to the medium Arkansas stone again. Reapplying the Sharpie tells me this edge is sharp, but it’s toothy.
I go round and round this mulberry bush until I get it reasonably paper-cutting sharp again. I use literally every stone I own on it to get there. It ain’t pretty, but here is a close up of my final edge.
Sent from my tricorder.
I found this polish in the close out section of my local WM. It’s not Mother’s, which bikerdoc recommended, but for $1.47, it might be worth trying.
After 25-30 strokes on a brick, the edge of my Ka Bar does not look any different, but it will not cut paper. Sufficiently dull.
First up, the coarse diamond stone. This is probably overkill, to be honest, but I want the edge back relatively quickly. So I break out the Sharpie. Ten light-pressure pull strokes in, I can feel the burr starting to form. The base gives me about an extra 1/2” clearance to work and does not budge. Did I mention you should get the base, @SteadyD?
As you can see, there’s part of my blade where I’m not quite hitting the edge. That might be a little “wallering” that I (or maybe a previous owner) introduced. I guess if I sharpen the rest of the blade long enough, that will even out.
About another 10 passes on each side, and I am cutting paper sharp. Time to move on. I have a 600 grit diamond stone, but at this point, I think I’ll move to a 400 grit water stone. I soaked it as directed, and keep a small bowl of water on the table. I just splash a few drops on now and then. I mark the blade again. It’s much smoother now.
As might be imagined, this stone is nowhere near as aggressive as the coarse diamond. 25 passes in, still no burr. I just keep working, taking time to monitor the edge, making sure I’m getting rid of the Sharpie. I completely lose track of the number of strokes, but eventually, I get a burr. Now I just keep working until it is the full length of the blade. Rinse and repeat with push strokes. Oddly, the blade actually seems duller now. Clearly, I’ve gone astray. That’s why I’m doing this, though, right?
Sharpie the blade & go again. This time, I decide to see if I’m any better with the medium Arkansas stone. After 15-20 passes on each side, I can tell it’s getting better. A quick paper test confirms this. I’m beginning to think different metals just do “like” different stones. On to the Arkansas fine.
After working on that for a while, I gave up (for the moment) and got out the fine diamond plate. When I finished (inadvertently) re-dulling the edge, I started the process all over again with the coarse diamond plate. *sigh* After I had it back to paper-cutting sharp, I went to the medium Arkansas stone again. Reapplying the Sharpie tells me this edge is sharp, but it’s toothy.
I go round and round this mulberry bush until I get it reasonably paper-cutting sharp again. I use literally every stone I own on it to get there. It ain’t pretty, but here is a close up of my final edge.
Sent from my tricorder.
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SteadyD
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One thing I’m battling is not knowing how my progress is going, or rather, is any one stroke completely undoing my work because I’ve lost the angle? I spend an hour or more on a blade in my wicked edge and really enjoy it, but even twenty minutes freehand feels like an anxiety riddled lifetime... I’ve got to get where I’m relaxed because that’s the whole fun of this. Better stones will help I’m sure.
I usually only look for a burr with the first grit I use unless I start with a really coarse grit due to a very dull knife or when I'm repairing damage to the blade.
A burr forms when you remove metal. After I get the bevel set all the way down both sides of the blade with my initial grit, I'm mostly just polishing the edge from that point on. No need to look for a burr and the pressure used is less. I also tend to go to alternating sides with each stroke after the first grit.
That's not exactly right, because any stone is going to remove a little bit of metal and so you're actually forming a tiny burr with every stroke where the angle between the knife and the stone is correct. It's just really small when you use a fine stone--AND, the alternating stroke (if the angle is right on that side) takes it off immediately.
If the knife gets duller during the "polishing" stage that means that something is wrong with the angle of the knife. It can mean:
1. I got the angle wrong and I'm actually rounding off the edge.
2. I'm not keeping the same angle on one side when I switched from the coarse stone to the finer one. Too much error on the angle on one side when alternating strokes can form a "micro-burr" on one side of the knife and not remove it with the stroke on the other side.
3. Too much pressure--the edge is actually getting rolled/folded over.
When I first learned to sharpen (from Juranitch's book) I used his method. I would get the bevel set with a coarse grit stone and then move to a finer stone. When I went to the finer stone I would intentionally raise the angle of the blade to the stone. Not very much, but enough that I could easily tell it was different from in the first stage. In other words, put another "micro-bevel" right at the edge of the main bevel. This helps with some of the issues that come up during the "polishing" stage, but if the angle is raised too much then you just dull the knife.
Basically since you're intentionally changing the sharpening angle when you go to the polishing stage, you are less likely to run into issues with failing to match the angle from the first stage of sharpening.
After awhile I reached the point where I didn't have to actually make that microbevel. I could hold a good enough angle that I would just use the same angle on the polishing stage as the main stage.
A burr forms when you remove metal. After I get the bevel set all the way down both sides of the blade with my initial grit, I'm mostly just polishing the edge from that point on. No need to look for a burr and the pressure used is less. I also tend to go to alternating sides with each stroke after the first grit.
That's not exactly right, because any stone is going to remove a little bit of metal and so you're actually forming a tiny burr with every stroke where the angle between the knife and the stone is correct. It's just really small when you use a fine stone--AND, the alternating stroke (if the angle is right on that side) takes it off immediately.
If the knife gets duller during the "polishing" stage that means that something is wrong with the angle of the knife. It can mean:
1. I got the angle wrong and I'm actually rounding off the edge.
2. I'm not keeping the same angle on one side when I switched from the coarse stone to the finer one. Too much error on the angle on one side when alternating strokes can form a "micro-burr" on one side of the knife and not remove it with the stroke on the other side.
3. Too much pressure--the edge is actually getting rolled/folded over.
When I first learned to sharpen (from Juranitch's book) I used his method. I would get the bevel set with a coarse grit stone and then move to a finer stone. When I went to the finer stone I would intentionally raise the angle of the blade to the stone. Not very much, but enough that I could easily tell it was different from in the first stage. In other words, put another "micro-bevel" right at the edge of the main bevel. This helps with some of the issues that come up during the "polishing" stage, but if the angle is raised too much then you just dull the knife.
Basically since you're intentionally changing the sharpening angle when you go to the polishing stage, you are less likely to run into issues with failing to match the angle from the first stage of sharpening.
After awhile I reached the point where I didn't have to actually make that microbevel. I could hold a good enough angle that I would just use the same angle on the polishing stage as the main stage.
If it's any consolation, I spent about an hour and a half on that one knife today, and I still don't even have a strop. I'm not sure you'll completely undo your work in a stroke or two, but 4 or 5 passes sure will. Ask me how I know . . . .
That blade is probably getting convex enough that I'll need to use the Gatco (or a Hapstone, if I buy one) to set a whole new edge. Once that's done, we'll see how it goes.
@JohnKSa is posting a lot of good information here (and for that I thank you, John), but if you want to read from some guys that really "get down to the gnat's eye" on sharpening, there's a ton of reading available here: https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/maintenance-tinkering-embellishment.794/
And yes, I'm the "Spats McGee" over there, too.
And yes, I'm the "Spats McGee" over there, too.
I mentioned that "eventually," I'd have to use the Gatco to reset the edge on that knife. Well, I got impatient and "eventually" came yesterday afternoon. Mrs. McGee got home from her trip just as I was finishing up with the medium hone, and I forgot to get pictures. I did look at it under (iPhone) magnication, and you can tell a clear difference between what the Gatco does, and what I do freehand. I've (inadvertently) set all kinds of different angles on this blade by not having a consistent angle. I decline to call them microbevels, because that sounds like I meant to do it.
ETA: I'm seriously considering grabbing a knife or two with straight edges (like Wharncliffe) so that I can focus on holding the blade angle more consistently. Maybe once I get a better handle on that, I'll move back to blades with a little curve at the tip.
ETA: I'm seriously considering grabbing a knife or two with straight edges (like Wharncliffe) so that I can focus on holding the blade angle more consistently. Maybe once I get a better handle on that, I'll move back to blades with a little curve at the tip.
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There's the trick. And that's what takes building muscle memory. And what's really hard is sharpening enough with the right angle consistently enough to actually build that muscle memory.
I don't know what works for other folks, but I did it by going slowly and carefully controlling my movements. And by doing it for a long time. I couldn't tell you when I changed away from doing the main bevel and then changing the angle to do a "micro-bevel" for the finishing step, but I would guess it was some years.
That said, using that technique all the time wouldn't really be a bad thing. There's no pressing reason to change away from it.
That said, using that technique all the time wouldn't really be a bad thing. There's no pressing reason to change away from it.
90% of the sharpening results are from the coarse stone(s). No, check that 95%. EVERYTHING ELSE is taking out the marks from the preceding coarser grit stones. Knife should come off the coarsest stone you use with a sharp - really sharp and very toothy - edge. And then it's easy to perfect/polish the edge with progressively finer media until you're happy. Of course doing a micro bevel at the end of the sharpening process requires a slightly different touch. I've never tried to do that.
I set about to learn sharpening many years ago. I rarely freehand sharpen anymore but I do a little to keep proficiency. A couple things I learned that are against common belief that helped.
First, strict angle control isn’t required. I sharpen with a stone in one hand and a knife in the other. There is no way I’m keeping the angle consistent more than a couple degrees either way. I’ve watched some people on youtube get amazingly sharp edges and they use the same method of holding. They’re rocking the stone and might as well be sharpening on a rocking horse.
Second, forming a burr is not necessary. Sometimes the burr is so difficult to get rid of it becomes a huge problem. I typically will form a burr but it’s not required. It is faster though.
Third, if the edge isn’t sharp off the coarsest or 2nd coarsest stone, polishing it won’t help. I like really coarse edges sometimes and stop at a DMT blue coarse finish. These are some of the scariest edges I’ve ever used.
First, strict angle control isn’t required. I sharpen with a stone in one hand and a knife in the other. There is no way I’m keeping the angle consistent more than a couple degrees either way. I’ve watched some people on youtube get amazingly sharp edges and they use the same method of holding. They’re rocking the stone and might as well be sharpening on a rocking horse.
Second, forming a burr is not necessary. Sometimes the burr is so difficult to get rid of it becomes a huge problem. I typically will form a burr but it’s not required. It is faster though.
Third, if the edge isn’t sharp off the coarsest or 2nd coarsest stone, polishing it won’t help. I like really coarse edges sometimes and stop at a DMT blue coarse finish. These are some of the scariest edges I’ve ever used.
Based on what I've seen here and at bladeforums, I wasn't spending nearly enough time with my coarse stones.
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It's a pretty common thing to not spend enough time on the coarse stone. I sharpen as coarse as possible for some applications, and I try to make sure that the edges off the coarse stone, if deburred, would cleanly slice notebook paper. In most cases they'll shave my arm, but it depends on the knife and stone used.
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SteadyD
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I’ve got some decent DMT stones on the way. Double sided coarse/fine and fine/ultra-fine. Also got that base coming as well. I intentionally got 6” x 2” so I can strap them to my Sharpmaker to do quick microbevel touch ups.
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