Trying Titegroup in a .40 tomorrow...

[Dnaltrop]

Just working a different powder every few sessions while I search for the ones I like best... this weeks try is moving from Clays, to Titegroup.

180 grain Hornady XTP's (no cheap bulk in stock, oh well)

the Lee auto-disc's chart says I'll be throwing what appears to be the max charge of 4.7 grains on the .40 diameter disc.

I'm used to a moderately spicy recoil, but I'm not looking to hotrod, it's just rather convenient that the Disc hits the number exactly (I still lack the ability to stack the discs for precise fiddling)

Any thoughts/reccomendations? As usual these will be fed through my M&P.

 

[Doc Rizzi]

Titegroup for .40

The minimum charge for your bullet is 4.2g. If you are exploring with this powder I would work up a few cartridges beginning with 4.2 and working up to 4.7gr. The maximum charge is not necessarily the best load. Semi-Autos like enough of a load to allow a smooth cycle function. Beyond that it's about what is an accurate load for your pistol and for you as a shooter with respect to your comfort level and ability to control for follow up shots. Most of my accurate loads are on between the minimum and 50% of maximum. Give bullseye powder a try too.

 

[Dnaltrop]

I'll work up 15 rounds of the step below as well, the .37 disc should give me a 4.4 gr charge. Might try Bullseye next time, thanks for the direction!

 

[LiveLife]

Just working a different powder every few sessions while I search for the ones I like best... this weeks try is moving from Clays, to Titegroup.

180 grain Hornady XTP's

I'm used to a moderately spicy recoil, but I'm not looking to hotrod, it's just rather convenient that the Disc hits the number exactly (I still lack the ability to stack the discs for precise fiddling)

Might try Bullseye next time

For 40S&W pistol loads, you do not need to use double disks.

I have tried Bullseye/Clays/Titegroup/Promo/Green Dot/WST/N320 but these faster burning powders produce more snappy recoil loads even at mid-range load data. I would suggest you try slower burning powder than Titegroup instead of faster.

If you are looking for moderately recoiling jacketed 40S&W loads that meters precisely in Auto Disk, I would recommend moderate burn rate "ball" powders like W231/HP-38/Universal. For full power loads, WSF/HS-6/AutoComp (all ball powders).

FYI, here's a partial listing of powder burn rate chart:

8 Alliant Red Dot
9 Alliant Promo
10 Hodgdon CLAYS
11 Alliant Clay Dot
12 IMR, Co Hi-Skor 700-X
13 Alliant Bullseye
14 Hodgdon TITEGROUP
15 Alliant American Select
16 Accurate Arms Solo 1000
17 Alliant Green Dot
18 Winchester WST
19 IMR, Co Trail Boss
20 Winchester Super Handicap
21 Hodgdon INTERNATIONAL
22 Accurate Arms Solo 1250
23 IMR, Co PB
24 VihtaVuori N320
25 Accurate Arms No. 2
26 Ramshot Zip
27 IMR, Co SR 7625
28 Hodgdon HP-38
29 Winchester 231
30 Alliant 20/28
31 Alliant Unique
32 Hodgdon UNIVERSAL
33 Alliant Power Pistol
34 VihtaVuori N330
35 Alliant Herco
36 Winchester WSF
37 VihtaVuori N340
38 IMR, Co Hi-Skor 800-X
39 IMR, Co SR 4756
40 Ramshot True Blue
41 Accurate Arms No. 5
42 Hodgdon HS-6
43 Winchester AutoComp

 

[Dnaltrop]

Thanks for the list, I just threw the lack of double discs out to make it clear that "finesse" between jumps in powder volume aren't happening yet

Off to the range we go.

 

[LiveLife]

Instead of using double disk kit to obtain in-between charges, I buy extra disks at gun shows for cheap (typically $5 for used 4 disks) and drill in-between/custom holes (New double disk kit is only $11).

Now, I can adjust my powder charges in .1/.2 grains increments.

Look forward to your range report.

 

[Innovative]

TiteGroup for the .40 cal.

I had quite a hard time trying to get my .40 cal. handguns (Glock 27 and S&W-M&P) to shoot tight groups. They just couldn't compare to my .45 autos.

The best accuracy is usually reached when you find the best bullet at the right velocity. It rarely means that you're using the wrong powder.

However, when I tried Titegroup it finally became easy to find accurate .40 caliber handloads.

 

[Stormin.40]

I hope you have better luck with Titegroup than I did. My Beretta wouldn't cycle well with titegroup until I got close to max charge, this was with a 165gr bullet but I switch to HS-6 and never felt the need to come back. Using the rest of the titegroup up on .38 special +P loads. My next powder in .40 will be longshot. Hope it works well in you M&P, many shooters like Titegroup due to cost/round.

 

[Dnaltrop]

The powder changes aren't so much for accuracy, but simply trying them as a newer reloader to get a feel for various powders and their burn rates. I've used Trail Boss and Clays before this. (not counting the multiple cans of Pyrodex laying around to feed the mini-cannons/thundermugs)

Today's results, 4.7 grains under the 180 were fairly spicy, not quite uncomfortable, but a bit more work when following up the first shot. I'll reserve that round for a backup to a .44 when my Brother in law gets off his Rear and takes me to his Hog spot here. (not many in Oregon, not nearly as large as Texas, and I'd like to keep it that way)

4.3 grains was just low enough to put the round back squarely into an "all day shooting" classification for me.



Left hand bottom side is the 4.4 grain load, right hand bottom is the max 4.7. 50' 2 shot pairs. Seated.

Look Ma!! I didn't send EVERY round off the left of center!! just most of them, and not nearly as far as I used to before forcing myself to learn how to pull in a long DA.

I think future Semis will be SA/DA or SA only for me. I love the quality of the M&P, but the grumpy old man in me is getting annoyed with the travel in the trigger. Just can't keep the rounds as tightly grouped as I like.

The top left was the '73 .22 AR-7 explorer, Standing, top right is sighting in a High-standard rifle with it's 1950's scope. Just for comparison... Nothing to do with Titegroup , bu those 1950's scopes let almost NO light through, really gives you an appreciation for modern optics. Still 1" precisely low. but dead on left/right. 15 rounds each ring, with 2 sneezes while shooting the center ring



I also threw together a flat of .38's loaded with 125 grain bulk Plated HP's at the same 4.4 grains, and 4.0 grains for the snubby. (I don't test rounds in the 1940's Victory Model 10). Both rounds were entirely pleasurable.

Never ceases to amaze me how vastly different a gun can feel with the same powder charge and just a change of cartridge and bullet weight.

 

[JDGray]

If Titegroup doesn't do what it says, Power Pistol will...

Love that stuff in 9mm, and 40S&W, and start loads work out really well!

 

[[email protected]]

I have loaded the 40s&w with bullseye, titegroup, hp38, accurate#5 and #7, and unique. I like the recoil of unique the best followed by acc#7. If I am loading plinking ammo I usually use berrys with bullseye as they seem to mimic my carry ammo the best. I had the lee pro powder thrower ontop of my classic turret press and if I remember correctly unique metered consistant with it. MY LNL powder measure also likes unique, but others have not had such luck. Just be cautious about going "all in" by going max load with the faster burning powders. The way I do business with 40s$w rounds is, fast powders like bullseye,titgroup, are used for light plinking ammo which velocity is not a concern. Hp38 for lead, ACC#5 for training ammo, and unique/Acc#7 for social ammo.

 

[JO JO]

+1 on power pistol and it fills the case enough not likely to double charge

 

[rcmodel]

9mm, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, and all the Magnum revolver calibers are high pressure 35,000 PSI cartridges.

They and the guns they go in are desgned to operate at that pressure level.

Titegroup and other fast pistol powders were designed for low pressure revolver & auto pistol loads.

See where this is going?

Take a bowling ball and hit it as fast & hard as you can with your fist. (Fast powder)
O.K., now that you are back from the ER with the cast on your hand.

Try using your other good hand to push the bowling ball as fast & hard as you can. (Slow powder)

See?

rc

 

[Dnaltrop]

Hogdon's loading data puts the 4.7gr at 33,300psi / 978 FPS. for the 180 XTP.

I should really pick up a chronograph when I have the chance, would have been nice to see how close these were.

I'll move down the ladder further for the next runthrough, was really pleased with the .38's however.

 

[Hondo 60]

You'll find that Hodgdon's FPS has no basis in reality.
They use a closed system where there is no gas escaping from anywhere.

I've found that with Tite Group I'm usually at least 100 -150 FPS slower.

 

[Innovative]

My chronograph shows that I can get Titegroup handloads to 1,050 fps with the 155 gr. Speer Gold Dot H.P. - with safe pressure. The accuracy beats any other .40 cal. load I've ever tried.

My Glock 27 and the S&W-M&P both function perfectly with this load, and this bullet provides awesome penetration and expansion. The point of impact works out to be perfect for my fixed sights.

The reduced recoil of lighter bullets helps make follow up shots quicker. With the way this particular bullet performs at 1,050 fps, there's no need to make dragon loads.

 

[Pilot]

I just loaded a bunch of 9MM using 4.0 grains of Titegroup and 115 grain LSWC yesterday. I was pleased at the results at the range. I typically use HP-38/W231 for my 9MM target loads. I've been using Titegroup for .45 Colt, .45 ACP and now 9MM. Seems like a versatile powder.