Trying to chose. Beretta 96/96 vertec, ParaOrd P16

[striker3]

I have narrowed down my choices to these. Here is my reasoning:

Beretta 96: Is same type of design as the M9 that I have trained with, but in the .40 S&W that I want. This is a very famaliar weapon, especially in regards to the saftey placement.

Beretta 96 Vertec: Same as above except that this has an accesory rail and is slightly smaller and lighter.

ParaOrd P16 LDA: Larger mag capacity, good clean double action pull.

The pistol will be used mainly for home defense, as I am currently stationed in california and cannot legally carry. But when visiting family in AZ, I will be carrying concealled.

My questions are about functionality. I have not had the opportunity to test fire any of these guns and just wanted to know if there was any thing that I should watch out for. I know that I, while in the Marines, and my Dad who owns an M9, have put said pistol through hell and never had a problem with it. Is the 96 just as rugged in both configurations?

I know that it is always best to go with what you are familiar with, but as this will be my only personal SD pistol, I will be able to retrain myself fairly easily.

 

[10-Ring]

Of your choices, I'd go w/ the Beretta 96. Of the 40 S&W pistols I've owned & shot (USPc 40, P16, Glock 23, & 96), the 96 was the most accurate and nicest to shoot.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Just a thought...

If you like the Beretta 92/96, but want the light rail they have the 96G-SD model. It is the same as the basic model, except it has a light rail. Check it out here under 92/96 series, at the bottom of the page.

 

[Boats]

I'd go with any duty Beretta over any duty Para-Ord and I am a 1911 fan! I have never been impressed with P-O's quality and if you ever look at an exploded drawing of the LDA, it makes the Beretta look like a simplified design. More "high quality and properly spec'd" Para-Ord parts to break on an LDA than you can shake a stick at.

If I wanted to be assured of having the weapon go "bang" every time, especially if I were an LEO or something, I'd go with the Beretta with a modified "INS trigger spring" from Wolff's in a heartbeat. Sad thing is I'd probably save money and a major mechanical headache in the bargain by leaving the P-O in the case. The Model 96 had been on the Border Patrol's hips for over a decade until recently and they have never had any major problems with it. Just keep your mag springs fresh and you will likely never have a serious problem either.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I'd go with the Beretta 96 -- easy to use, maintain, fires accurately...and has a manual safety -- which is always a plus in my book.

 

[cool45auto]

Never owned a Para but I love my Beretta. The rail is just a plus.

 

[LEGHORN]

Prior to coming down so hard and negative on Para, I think one has to consider that Para pistols, single action and LDAs, dominate the competition (IPSC and IDPA) circuit among most major brands, with the exception of Glock perhaps in IDPA; there may be one more brand, I'm not totally certain. But most certainly they far outnumber any Berettas, if any do exist in these arenas. These are the facts and if dealing with the facts they should tell you something about the shootability, reliability and durability of Para pistols. You may like a Beretta for other reasons, as there are other makes that I may like because of personal preferences to some specific features, but some of the things I've read simply do not ring true and I am also somewhat surprised at the tone of some of those remarks.

 

[Boats]

For the P-O quality doubters just start below and browse for awhile.

1911 Forum

Then cast about on The Firing Line or berettaforum.net and look for a comparable litany of complaints about any Beretta duty arm. You won't find it.

Oh yeah, and if competition translated into real life, then you Leghorn, should be able to point out some pistol contracts the LDA has won through a T&E.

I'd also be curious to see the IDPA circuit in which P-Os were the most popular single action.

 

[WonderNine]

If you must have the .40, maybe you should consider a USP instead?

 

[Number 6]

I have a 96 vertec and absolutely love it. I have put about 3000 rounds through it without a single problem. I would recommend this gun to anyone. I have only shot a 96 FS once but it was accurate and the owner said it was very reliable. I have no experience with Para Ordinance firearms but I have heard nothing but good things about them. If you are going to try to conceal I would go with the vertec since it is a tad shorter and has a slimmer grip. The best advice anyone has ever given me was to pick up and if I can shoot all the options and find the one that feels the best in my hand. So much of shooting is about how the gun feels.

 

[Boats]

If you must have the .40, maybe you should consider a USP instead?

Yeah, why get a decently priced, reliable .40 when you can overpay for the functional equivalent?

 

[bountyhunter]

I have a 1640 LDA LTD and I am quite fond of it (now). It took some tuning up to get the bugs out of it. I also own a Ber 92FS and it is a very solid design for 9mm, but some say that the design does not hold up well to the .40's additional pounding. On the Ber Forum, the number 10,000 has been posted several times as the expected life of a 96 firing full power ammo. Not sure if that is accurate, but I do know the gun is nearly identical to the 9mm version. YMMV, but the Para slide, frame and barrel are a lot beefier and I think would take a lot more shooting than a 96.

 

[bountyhunter]

Oh yeah, and if competition translated into real life, then you Leghorn, should be able to point out some pistol contracts the LDA has won through a T&E.

The LDA is quite popular in LE and MIL contracts throughout the world, catching on in US LE because it doesn't carry with the "hammer back" like a regular 1911.

I'd also be curious to see the IDPA circuit in which P-Os were the most popular single action.

I've seen a ton of them used for race guns and pin shooters. Bob Hunter on the 1911 Forum is the resident wizard of the Para and has posted many pictures of comp guns he has built from Paras.

 

[striker3]

Thank you for all of the responses.

In reply to a question about why I don't buy a USP, I do not like the way their grips fit me. Little bit to bulky for my hands. The 1911 or Beretta fells better.

I have looked at the 1911 forums and came up with these conclusions.

1) Paras seem to come NIB with problems
2) But Have EXCELLENT customer service in fixing these problems
3) Since I'm in Cali, I would be able to get 2 free 10 rnd mags with the Hi-cap coupon that you get from them.
4) Even with this, why should I buy something that I will have to fix as soon as I get it? Even if it is free.

I am going to browse the Beretta forum and check up on them tomorrow. If anyone else has something to add, please do!

 

[Alan Fud]

I own five Para's but given your choice of either the Beretta 96/96 vertec or the ParaOrd P16, I would DEFINITELY recommend the Beretta.

 

[bountyhunter]

I have looked at the 1911 forums and came up with these conclusions.

1) Paras seem to come NIB with problems
2) But Have EXCELLENT customer service in fixing these problems
3) Since I'm in Cali, I would be able to get 2 free 10 rnd mags with the Hi-cap coupon that you get from them.
4) Even with this, why should I buy something that I will have to fix as soon as I get it? Even if it is free.

In fairness to Para, it has been my experience that an unacceptable percentage of ALL mass made 1911's have various problems out of the box be it Kimber, Para, SA, Colt, etc. I don't think para is any worse than anybody else, and being willing to make it right is worth a lot when you read some of the horror stories from some of the other 1911 makers.

 

[3 gun]

You won't hear a bad word about a Para from me. I've had three, and still have two. Had the P16-40 LDA which I replaced with a LTD and a P14-45. The LDA was smooth, but when under the timer it didn't make the cut against the SA, at least in my hands. I shoot every weekend, 4-6 thousand rounds a year. The only time I've had a problem with my Paras was a broken trigger return spring on the LDA and a couple of broken mag springs.

One question I haven't heard answered, which do you shoot best? Truth is you seldom see a Beretta on the firing line in competition. Get your hands on them, shoot a couple of boxes of ammo, I’m sure one will work better for you.

 

[dandean316]

I also have good things to say about Para. I've had 11 Para's over the years and only 1 had a problem. Rough feedramp so it wouldn't take cheap white box ammo, but fired Federal ball ammo fine. Para cleaned up the ramp and it worked fine. I just bought the Para Carry - no problems even though everyone said I'd have them. I have a 14.45 LDA that my friend swears is the most accurate gun he's ever shot - and this guy has guns. I qualified with my P16 with 100% using "point shooting" and everyone else scored way lower. I currently am selling a 16.40 LDA to buy - another Para (7.45 LTD)!

I'm not a fan of the Beretta - it doesn't feel right to me. That said, they seem to be built fine and people sure like them. I don't think you could do wrong either way.

Good luck to you.