TSA Confiscates Record Number of Guns at Airports

[Speedo66]

Folks, you can't just say "I forgot" when they find a gun in your carry on luggage or on your person.

They're reacting to the large number of unchecked guns, 6300 as of mid Dec.,and raising the max fine to $14,950. The fact that 88% of them are loaded may be part of the reason.

TSA notes that in addition to the traveler being held up, all operations slow down and many extra resources are required. TSA agents do not hold the gun, but rather are handed over to local police.

A college professor, an expert on airport security had this to say: “The majority of people are not doing it with malicious intent,” Dr. Jacobson said. “They’re simply forgetting.”

Dr. Jacobson said an increase in that fine would not solve the problem because “if someone has forgotten that they have a gun with them, then why would deterrence make a difference?”

“It’s not the item that’s the problem,” he added. “It’s the people and the intent of the person with the gun.” Wise words!

Here's the article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/17/us/tsa-firearms-record.html

 

[AlexanderA]

I don't buy the idea that people would "forget" that they have a gun while boarding a plane. More likely, they're testing the system or taking their chances against what is thought to be "security theater." But this is no joking matter.

The underlying problem is that too many people are carrying guns, in general. I've always felt that guns are a zero-sum game. You are stronger if you are armed, but the other guy is not. Therefore, if you have a gun, it's to your advantage to shut the door behind you (and make it difficult for other people to get guns).

 

[hso]

More likely

That's an unreasonably large number of people intentionally trying to carry a gun through TSA when you could just check it. Never assume malice when stupidity is a reasonable explanation.

 

[AlexanderA]

That's an unreasonably large number of people intentionally trying to carry a gun through TSA when you could just check it. Never assume malice when stupidity is a reasonable explanation.

Maybe not malice. Having recently flown, I noticed that checked baggage seems to be becoming a thing of the past. Airlines charge extra for it, plus it's inconvenient. The majority of passengers on my flights had only carry-on bags. I can easily see some people taking a chance with a gun.

I'm wondering, if 6,300 guns were found, how many were not found? That number will never be known, but without it, how can we have any idea of the real odds of being caught?

 

[patmccoy]

The underlying problem is that too many people are carrying guns, in general. I've always felt that guns are a zero-sum game. You are stronger if you are armed, but the other guy is not. Therefore, if you have a gun, it's to your advantage to shut the door behind you (and make it difficult for other people to get guns).

So it's OK for you to have a gun, but not the rest of us riffraff. "Heil A.A."

 

[Roverguy]

The thing that should be of concern here is how many guns are getting through. Given that TSA has a phenomenal detection failure rate, on average over 80%, an awful lot of guns are getting through. So, if they’ve detected 6300 firearms, @ 8500 have almost certainly gone undetected. That’s a concern.

And yet, there hasn’t been a firearms hijacking or in-air firearms incident in this country since before 9/11 as far as I recall. Interesting.

https://reason.com/2021/11/19/after-20-years-of-failure-kill-the-tsa/

 

[.455_Hunter]

Any bag I plan to use for carry-on gets a full shakedown to ensure ALL pockets are empty and clear, particularly for a misplaced speed-loader, speed-strip, magazine, loose rounds or fired brass. I generally avoid mixing plane bags with firearm related bags, but stupid does happen sometimes, hence the shakedown.

 

[earlthegoat2]

The underlying problem is that too many people are carrying guns, in general. I've always felt that guns are a zero-sum game. You are stronger if you are armed, but the other guy is not. Therefore, if you have a gun, it's to your advantage to shut the door behind you (and make it difficult for other people to get guns).

Well yeah. That’s why all the best genocides begin that way.

 

[rust collector]

I try to eliminate all metal from my outfit when flying. I normally carry a pocket knife, but not on flight days. What took me a while to figure out was the amusement park and public building embargoes of pocket knives. Apparently my 1 1/8" blade makes me a gang banger.

The airlines want to charge $45 for checked baggage, while clowns stuff monster duffel bags and hard luggage into overhead bins 4 rows back because they can. Airlines created this crunch, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[KY DAN]

I don't buy the idea that people would "forget" that they have a gun while boarding a plane. More likely, they're testing the system or taking their chances against what is thought to be "security theater." But this is no joking matter.

The underlying problem is that too many people are carrying guns, in general. I've always felt that guns are a zero-sum game. You are stronger if you are armed, but the other guy is not. Therefore, if you have a gun, it's to your advantage to shut the door behind you (and make it difficult for other people to get guns).

So is it OK to own a gun and carry it, I thought the whole part of the concealed carry movement the last 40 years was refuse to be a victim.

I am so confused by your statement

 

[WisBorn]

Delete

 

[AlexanderA]

So it's OK for you to have a gun, but not the rest of us riffraff. "Heil A.A."

Presumably everybody on this forum already has gun(s). The valid question is how much more gun proliferation do we want? Every additional gun carrier diminishes the value of existing guns.

I'm well aware of the arguments for more gun ownership -- primarily that more gun owners increase the political clout of the RKBA cause. But on an individual level, guns are a zero-sum game. In that context, if you were the only gun owner, you'd be king of the hill.

 

[Archie]

Having any gun owner - or arms carrier of any sort - becoming a statistic of legal infraction is NOT good for the bulk of us.

 

[AlexanderA]

And yet, there hasn’t been a firearms hijacking or in-air firearms incident in this country since before 9/11 as far as I recall. Interesting.

The people smuggling guns on board clearly suspect that there are others doing the same thing. Therefore, even though the TSA refuses to acknowledge it, armed passengers -- or the potential for armed passengers -- are having a deterrent effect. As the wise guys used to say, issue everyone a gun as they board the plane, and see if there are any skyjackings. An armed cabin is a polite cabin.

 

[AlexanderA]

I am so confused by your statement

You are correct. I myself am confused. The situation itself is confusing.

Carrying a gun is a defensive advantage -- provided that the population of other carriers is limited. But the more people are carrying guns, the less the relative advantage. If everyone is carrying, there's no defensive advantage at all. Whatever wrongdoer shoots first, wins. And there's an incentive for a wrongdoer to shoot first, without asking any questions. It's like the Wild West, only worse. Relatively few people were carrying in the Wild West.

 

[Meeks36]

The people smuggling guns on board clearly suspect that there are others doing the same thing. Therefore, even though the TSA refuses to acknowledge it, armed passengers -- or the potential for armed passengers -- are having a deterrent effect. As the wise guys used to say, issue everyone a gun as they board the plane, and see if there are any skyjackings. An armed cabin is a polite cabin.

Until some idiot shoots out a window. Or blows his or another’s brains out playing with it. Then they or others will say it’s not drop safe or some crap.

 

[Will Munny]

The people smuggling guns on board clearly suspect that there are others doing the same thing. Therefore, even though the TSA refuses to acknowledge it, armed passengers -- or the potential for armed passengers -- are having a deterrent effect. As the wise guys used to say, issue everyone a gun as they board the plane, and see if there are any skyjackings. An armed cabin is a polite cabin.

Even in the absence of firearms skyjackings are essentially a thing of the past. 9/11 changed the paradigm.
Prior to 9/11, people often met the demands of skyjackers (D.B. Cooper for example) because they expected they wanted money or transport to some place and would leave the plane safely after their demands were met.
9/11 shattered that assumption, and even before the day was over the paradigm had changed, as the passangers of United 93 staged a revolt. (An event that is relevant for 2A discussions, as the frequent question by anti-gun zelots is when would the militia ever be involved in defending the country, and the answer is that on 9/11 the only effective defence provided whatsoever was by individuals which were by statute unorganized militia)
Since then, as best I can remember, every attempt at schenagians on an aircraft has resulted in the perp being tied up for the duration of the flight at best, if not roughed up a bit as well.
Aircraft are one of extremely few places I can see prohibiting firearms, whenever the flight is using a pressurized cabin, due to the inherent danger of decompresion.

 

[KY DAN]

You are correct. I myself am confused. The situation itself is confusing.

Carrying a gun is a defensive advantage -- provided that the population of other carriers is limited. But the more people are carrying guns, the less the relative advantage. If everyone is carrying, there's no defensive advantage at all. Whatever wrongdoer shoots first, wins. And there's an incentive for a wrongdoer to shoot first, without asking any questions. It's like the Wild West, only worse. Relatively few people were carrying in the Wild West.

When put like that I understand completely

Your perspective is refreshing, I never really thought about how screwed I really was.

 

[Old Dog]

So, someone posted this article on another long-established firearms forum and the first few pages of responses were remarkably dissimilar to the first responses here.

I don't buy the idea that people would "forget" that they have a gun while boarding a plane.

I totally do.
I noted that a few months ago, my backpack was sidelined at a Sea-Tac TSA check because I'd had a 100-round plastic box of CCI Mini-Mags in a side pocket. Silly me for forgetting I'd taken this pack to the range instead of my normal range backpack, stupid me for not even going through the pack before using it as a carryon for my laptop and a paperback (in my defense, it was a last minute trip, booked the day before I had to fly). Anyway, the guys were fairly gracious and smiled when I told them to trash the rounds, and I was allowed to go to my gate with no further drama. My point is, sometimes life gets hectic, people get rushed, and if they're not frequent flyers or dedicated "gun persons," or maybe they just got drunk the night before, maybe something gets forgotten (like the J-frame you through in a small suitcase during your weekend with the girl up in the mountains, or whatever).

I fly a lot, as I have properties in two other states and family business spread coast to coast and in the Midwest. So after all these years, I got caught by TSA (and frankly, I don't think they're now as incompetent as some here seem to believe).

clowns stuff monster duffel bags and hard luggage into overhead bins 4 rows back because they can. Airlines created this crunch, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

That's my big beef, and why I cash in my miles or pay big bucks to upgrade to first class on any flight longer than five hours. Backpacks stuffed that are 18" thick and "carryon" bags that are as big as the suitcases most of us check through, yet the airlines don't enforce their own rules -- so it takes almost an hour to board the airplanes and even longer to de-plane.

The valid question is how much more gun proliferation do we want? Every additional gun carrier diminishes the value of existing guns.

No, every additional gun carrier only ensures that we will have more stupid gun carriers performing stupid tricks that will lead to more bad publicity and opinions about firearms in general.

 

[Officers'Wife]

I have to wonder if TSA is testing the average citizens' gullibility. Federal crime, federal fine yet they are handed over to local LEO's? I don't think so Earl

 

[MikeInOr]

I have found myself in line at the post office a couple of times when I suddenly remember that I forgot to dock my pistol in the car before coming in. But I have never considered carrying a gun onto a plane and can't foresee myself ever doing that accidentally.

From what I have seen TSA does a pretty thorough job of checking people and bags. I can't see any way you could make it through the metal detector with even a polymer gun. I think you would have to count on a luggage check clerk to be sleeping for your bag to make it through the xray machine with a gun in it without being caught. But I usually fly small airports. Maybe the big airports are more laxed? I guess any security system can be circumvented but I think it would take some keen planning to make it through the TSA check points I have been through with a gun.

Personally I don't fly much though. I hate the security hassle and the cramped uncomfortable sardine can seats and breathing in every other passengers germs and being 3 hours early only to wait around and the wait for checked baggage pickup and the delayed flights and being stranded on the runway indefinitely without AC and the missed connections and the crying yelling kids and the lost checked luggage. I have a hard time imagining a less inviting experience that anyone would still voluntarily pay for. Luckily my family is in driving distance of where I live.

 

[kwguy]

Considering the millions of passenger operations that happen each year, combined with the increase in popularity of CCW, (which I once thought we were all for on this forum?), that number is not very large, statistically speaking.

It’s telling that nothing bad has happened with these firearms, whether they were found or not by the TSA. That just tells me people are being forgetful. With so many travelers, and so many CCW carriers, it’s bound to happen. The biggest danger seems to be an AD occurring in an overhead compartment. Since that hasn’t happened, it tells me that people are taking proper holster use seriously (that’s sarcasm, btw).

I’d be more concerned about lithium batteries.

Slow news day I guess.

 

[trekker73]

You are correct. I myself am confused. The situation itself is confusing.

Carrying a gun is a defensive advantage -- provided that the population of other carriers is limited. But the more people are carrying guns, the less the relative advantage. If everyone is carrying, there's no defensive advantage at all. Whatever wrongdoer shoots first, wins. And there's an incentive for a wrongdoer to shoot first, without asking any questions. It's like the Wild West, only worse. Relatively few people were carrying in the Wild West.

Thats too simplified. There is still a defensive advantage being not all people are created equal. A gun is a great equalizer for a women, elderly, small or weak person, or someone outnumbered by assailants, regardless if 'the bad guy also has acces to a gun'. Its also a great deterrant in that often thugs arent looking to get into the idealised gun duel scenario you are using here, they are looking for an easy mark or covert theft etc. The idea almost any member of the public can deal deadly force is a deterrant and by default a defensive advantage.

And why stop at guns. Next learning a martial art or boxing is of no advantage because a thug can learn it too? Or advising your wife to take the large family dog for a run at night is a waste of time, because anyone can own a dog too? Cmon..

 

[redneck2]

I think it’s simply that, if you do anything long enough it becomes a habit. One simply doesn’t obsess on the fact that they’re carrying. When the firearm is tucked away, it’s even less likely to trigger one’s memory.

People forget that they have their children in the back seat of their car

I have a real, real hard time believing 6,300 people wanted to test the system

 

[Carl N. Brown]

My airline bag is distinctly diferent and kept separate from my range bags.