TSA, pilots wage war of words over gun program

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gunsmith

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http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0803/082603w1.htm
August 26, 2003
TSA, pilots wage war of words over gun program

By Matthew Weinstock
[email protected]



Transportation Security Administration officials say they are moving “full speed ahead†with a program to train and arm commercial airline pilots. But pilots organizations accuse the agency of dragging its feet and, in some cases, deterring pilots from volunteering to carry weapons.


TSA’s week-long training classes are currently booked through September, according to John Moran, deputy assistant administrator for law enforcement and security training at the agency. Each class contains almost 50 pilots. The agency is now filling out rosters for October. Moran said the agency may increase the number of classes starting in January.


The program has a $25 million budget for fiscal 2004. That’s up from $8 million for the second half of this fiscal year. A test class was trained in April and the program officially launched July 20.


“The great majority of those who have volunteered will be trained within a year,†Moran said during a Tuesday news conference at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. He predicted that there will be “thousands†of armed pilots by this time next year.


Although TSA won’t reveal how many pilots have been trained to date, the number would be close to 200 if the agency has been training approximately 48 pilots per week since mid-July. Pilots organizations say the number should be much higher and accuse TSA of poorly designing the program.


About 40,000 pilots are interested in being trained to carry firearms, according to Capt. Bob Lambert, president of the Airline Pilots Security Alliance. But TSA has discouraged pilots from entering the program by requiring detailed psychological examinations and conducting extensive background checks, Lambert said during a separate news conference, also held at National Airport.


“We need to end the harassment of these pilots,†Lambert said, noting that pilots already go through psychological exams as a routine part of their jobs.


Moran, however, said the psychological examination to become a so-called “flight deck officer†is similar to one given to other law enforcement officers. The additional level of review is necessary because of the enhanced responsibility that goes along with carrying a gun in a cockpit, he said.


About 6 percent of pilots who apply for the program don’t get in, according to Moran. Two percent don’t meet the qualifications spelled out in the law that established the program; 3 percent fail the psychological examination; and 1 percent have problems with the background check.


Moran also questioned the validity of the Airline Pilots Security Alliance’s claim that 40,000 pilots are ready to volunteer. TSA data suggests a much lower level of response, he said.


A flight deck officer appearing with Moran said part of the problem is that the program is only a few months old. (The pilot, who TSA requested remain anonymous for security reasons, went through the initial training in April.) Pilots are still figuring out if they want to volunteer, and interested pilots must coordinate the training with their flying schedules. The flight deck officer said that after signing up for the class, he received his flight schedule and found there was a conflict. He was forced to miss two trips—and give up his pay for those days—to complete the training.


APSA and other pilot organizations argue that TSA has been opposed to the guns-in-cockpit program from the beginning. Former TSA Administrator John Magaw recently told Government Executive, “I researched it and said there shouldn’t be firearms in the cockpit. If you are going to make a judgment with that gun, you have to carry it with you all the time so it becomes part of you.â€


TSA requires that pilots carry their guns in a lockbox.


“We are taking time to do the training and they are treating us like children,†Lambert said.


The pilot groups also called on Congress to quickly pass legislation allowing pilots of cargo planes to carry guns. Such a provision was stripped out of the original legislation allowing armed pilots.
 
Let's see, these guys who are "pilots" have been screened by the airlines, haven't they? Then they're entrusted with the safety of anywhere from 15 to 300 lives, right? And in an aircraft worth millions, right?

And then TSA wants to make sure they're not a sack of nuts or that they pass a background? Sounds like TSA really doesn't understand the airline industry at all.

Hear tell that interstate buses may be getting security guards. Guess we may get to the point of arming bus drivers. Will this be part II.

TSA is a puppy of an agency and the left hand and right hand, well, they're there.:rolleyes:
 
He was forced to miss two trips—and give up his pay for those days—to complete the training.
I think that must have been an unusual case. I was never unable to trade with someone to get days off without losing hours.

Sounds like TSA really doesn't understand the airline industry at all.
Yup.

Sam
 
Good fiscal discipline

A minimum of $8,000,000 to train at most 200 pilots in one week classes.

That works out to a MINIMUM of $40,000 per pilot.

ARE THEY SENDING THEM TO HARVARD?!!!

Maybe I'm being dense, but how do you spend $40,000 on a one week class, a gun, a lockbox, and a background check?
 
I suppose it's all the liability stuph that's costing so much. The Feds want to ensure that they took "reasonable" measures in arming the pilots. Well, they should have just written a bunch of rules and cut these guys loose. Instead they want to swear them all in before they're allowed to carry. Like a regular bureaucracy, the TSA is over-regulating things and empire building.
 
Today's Washington ComPost had a similar article. In it, Duane Woerth of ALPA was quoted as saying: "There's people who are a little too eager to have a gun and a little too eager to use it."

Oh yeah...let's see, I just signed for a $30 million aircraft, taking responsibility for it and the hundreds of souls aboard, not to mention my own skin, which I'm kinda partial to, and I'm going to be "too eager" to use a .45 in it? :rolleyes:

Moron ...oops Moran says
3 percent fail the psychological examination
That strains credulity. I'd be fascinated to see a profile of the psycho-examiners; think we might find any sign of anti mentality so widespread in the medical community there?

:barf: :barf: :barf:

TC
TFL Survivor
 
Remember that TSA was VERY adamant about not arming pilots (along with the Bush Admin., IIRC), but Congress forced this on them. I'm not surprised they are dragging their feet.

Could the reason be the precedent that it would set, i.e. guns and violence in the hands of non-LEOs can actually solve problems? That's not a very comforting thought to the leftists!
 
I saw some Moron form the TSA make a speech the other day about how

" A pilot could not be expected to engage a hijacker with a gun and still be able to land the plane safely"


So I guess he could engage the hijacker with his coffee cup and JuJitsu and then be easily able to land the plane safely????? Right :barf:
 
As usual, you guys understand this quite well. I've recommended this before, but for the best information on arming pilots check out the Airline Pilots Security Alliance at http://www.secure-skies.org/. Try to remember that any article that quotes the TSA or ALPA is mostly wrong. They're full of their own agenda...which is NOT related to solving this problem.

The issue of missing trips to go to this training is not trivial, IMO. Some of you may have the impression that all airline pilots make tons of money, but that isn't the case for many airlines...especially for the "commuters" and the "Low Cost Carriers". Asking someone to take a 25-50% pay-cut one month so he can undergo the TSA psychological screening after travelling to Artesia, NM, and then sign a SSI statement so he can't complain about the idiotic TSA procedures often means that the pilot will just not do it. Folks, arming pilots is a necessary requirement. There simply aren't enough Air Marshals, and quite frankly, I don't want there to be. Putting a team of FAMs on every plane in America would mean we'd have to have a FAM organization the size of the Marine Corps. It is simply too expensive.

I know most of us are law-abiding gun owners and quite capable of responsibily using our weapons on an airplane if it came to that. But you have to realize that the anti-gun crowd is never going to stand for it. I'd like to see CCW holders carrying on my plane too...but it isn't going to happen in my lifetime.

The TSA has always been about obstructing arming pilots. Write your Congressional representatives and place some heat on the TSA.
 
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