Tumbling trending to wet?

[WestKentucky]

Seems as though there is a big change taking place in the reloading world. Used to be that everybody used to tumble in walnut or cob with a little polishing agent such as turbo bright mixed in. Threads now are showing a slow but steady move towards wet tumbling.

I understand that in wet tumbling the crud from the cases gets trapped in solution and then washes out easily. Does this crud affect septic systems? Does it pose different health hazards than dry tumbling?

Wet tumbling requires stainless pins rather than traditional media, are there different grades of pins that work differently, perhaps different sizes? What would be problematic with using other inert media? Is there a notable difference in time in tumbler?

Suffice it to say I need educated on why the switch seems to be taking place. What is so attractive to draw people to this method over the traditional method, and are there any drawbacks to wet tumbling that we don't see with dry tumbling.

 

[ray15]

What is so attractive to draw people to this method over the traditional method, and are there any drawbacks to wet tumbling that we don't see with dry tumbling.

What's attractive are the results. Like-new brass is nice to work with and it keeps your equipment cleaner. And if you use a wash-and-wax product as your soap the wax make the cases resize easier and the primers seat more easily. Downside - since it is capable of getting the primer pockets clean you feel compelled to decap before tumbling. But I want the primer pockets clean anyway, so that's not an issue to me. Between the cleanliness and the wax factor, if you've got a primer seating problem you've got a crimp.

Some see the wet-tumbling process as laborious compared to dry tumbling, but once you get your methodology worked out you can do it with minimal effort. It does take about 4 hours from range scrap to dry like-new brass, but most of that is waiting on the tumbler and the oven.

Any good quality tumbling pins will be .047" in diameter. Length may vary a little bit but generally ~1/4" long.

 

[Demi-human]

With a tuned up hand made tumbler I have my clean times to fourty minutes. The dry time is done in the annealer at about six and a half seconds.

I do it purely for the clean pockets in my well loved fourty five auto brass.

The fact that it's done in one hour is just extra icing.

 

[mdi]

Nope, not a trend, just fellers trying a newer method and talking about it. Wet tumbling was being used commercially way before I was born, so it's nothing really new, just some fellers tried it and like virgin looking brass. Purely personal choice. It might fit some reloaders style, but not mine. Tried it and too mush fuss, mes for me as I don't require pristine brass. Some new reloaders are convinced it's the thing to do from all the posts about it on forums...

 

[Bang!]

Makes it real easy to look in brass and verify powder level. 38/357, 223 especially. Biggest plus for me.

Brass inspection is easier. Nasty range brass can be cleaned to look new. Spot defects in those.

Pockets are clean.

Equipment stays cleaner.

Not much more involved than dry tumbling.

I do both. Each has its use. When I do batches of 223 it involves two wet tumbles and one dry. I like a good looking finished product regardless of what the task is. To each his own.

 

[lightman]

I believe it is gaining in popularity. I can do 3 or maybe 4 batches in the wet tumbler compared to 1 batch in the dry tumbler. And they are cleaner. There is a learning curve to wet tumbling . You have to develop a plan to separate the media from the cases and you have to dry them.

 

[USSR]

I understand that in wet tumbling the crud from the cases gets trapped in solution and then washes out easily. Does this crud affect septic systems? Does it pose different health hazards than dry tumbling?

My dirty, soapy water goes into my septic tank without a problem. Why would there be a problem? There is actually a lot less of a health hazard with wet tumbling as opposed to dry tumbling, as there is nothing air-borne as there is with dry tumbling.

Wet tumbling requires stainless pins rather than traditional media, are there different grades of pins that work differently, perhaps different sizes? What would be problematic with using other inert media? Is there a notable difference in time in tumbler?

As previously stated, you want .047" diameter pins. Previously .041" were used, and there was problems with them getting caught in the flash hole. There is a notable difference in time for a dry tumbler to get a case as clean and shiny as a wet tumbler does, if it's possible at all.

Suffice it to say I need educated on why the switch seems to be taking place. What is so attractive to draw people to this method over the traditional method, and are there any drawbacks to wet tumbling that we don't see with dry tumbling.

If you have to ask, then you have never seen just how clean and shiny a wet tumbler gets cases.

Don

 

[jmorris]

I use both, dry is still the easiest but doesn’t get them “as new” clean.

 

[SamT1]

Wet is far superior. I don’t have one, but I sure like the looks of the brass. I made a trade the other day for some brass that had been wet tumbled. I loaded my load master with the 45’s instead of storing them. I loaded some loads up testing lengths for a picky gun and my dad even noticed. He was like, did you decide to clean these? I told him it was just superior to my vibrator.

 

[<*(((><]

I don't put mine down the septic as there is a concentration of lead that is a by-product, probably never would be enough to be a problem leaching out in a leach field, but there are other options. One is better off leaving it outside to evaporate off (which doesn't take that long in the summer) and then one is left with sludge that can be disposed of appropriately. I'm not a high volume reloader so none of this is much of an inconvenience and the benefits of not having it airborne is huge in my book, especially when my kids like sitting with me reloading.

I still tumble my completed rounds to get the brass polished so as not to tarnish so fast, as the wet tumbling with pins removes any polish.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

With large amounts of brass, wet tumbling is faster, gets cases cleaner and IMO is easier than dry tumbling.

 

[dgod]

I have Tumbled for many years, I recently bought a UltraSonic Cleaner and will see how it does. Just need to figure out how to get past the 360 second timer...

dg

 

[Varminterror]

I started wet tumbling in a rock tumbler over 25yrs ago. I didn’t know it was new. Gear is more readily available than it used to be. I started ultrasonic cleaning 15yrs ago at my fab shop, got a home game about 10yrs ago.

Only one which is “new” to me is to do CLEANING instead of just polishing with dry media in a vibratory tumbler. I have polished parts in a vibratory tub for many years, but haven’t liked to do my primary cleaning in the dry media. I went through a stint about 5yrs ago where I did most of my cleaning in the tubs, but I’m back to ultrasonic and wet tumbling as my primary methods. Especially after getting a brass dryer...

The waste water needs to be treated as appropriate for the locale. I used an evaporator bed when I was on a septic tank, my current station allows it to go down the toilet, not the sink. None are difficult to manage.

 

[Bang!]

I have Tumbled for many years, I recently bought a UltraSonic Cleaner and will see how it does. Just need to figure out how to get past the 360 second timer...

dg

UltraSonic cleaning is an entirely different animal from wet tumbling.

 

[GW Staar]

I Still do both, but wet for dirty tarnished brass, and dry corncob for 30 minutes to remove lube after sizing.

A picture is needed in this thread.........wet Bling! ......is just flat addicting. And yes the powder charge is way easier to see, on a video screen, or just looking, the contrast being obvious.

Someone mentioned that wet isn't new......it think what's new is the stainless steel media.....least ways in this hobby. It makes all the difference.

Well if there is a down side, I'd say its the peening effect. This close-up shows you that the surface isn't smooth as glass......but it seems to be a minor thing when you get the brass this clean inside and out....even the primer pockets. Doesn't seem to hurt except maybe making it harder to size.....good lube is necessary.

Sometimes too clean can make more friction. I found on blinged 7.62 LC (MG brass) that my favorite Imperial wax lube didn't cut it. Had to go back to RCBS lube on a pad to size. Was it too clean or was it the peened surface.....don't really know for sure. But with imperial....from light to heavy .... I almost stuck one and never managed to size one without fear and trembling. RCBS lube and even STP oil treatment worked fine but still not as easy as pre-stainless steel media experience. Maybe it was the brass.

 

[USSR]

Sometimes too clean can make more friction. I found on blinged 7.62 LC (MG brass) that my favorite Imperial wax lube didn't cut it. Had to go back to RCBS lube on a pad to size. Was it too clean or was it the peened surface.....don't really know for sure.

Neither. Fired in a MG with a really large chamber. Been there, done that.

Don

 

[hdwhit]

West Kentucky wrote:
Seems as though there is a big change taking place in the reloading world.

Without seeing some sales figures from the equipment vendors, I would be hesistant to declare a trend based on posts made by people like you and I who have the time to regularly visit and post on these boards - we may not necessarily be representative of the entire reloading community.

Used to be that everybody used to tumble in walnut or cob with a little polishing agent such as turbo bright mixed in.

I built my own rotary tumbler 20+ years ago out of parts from a Texas Instruments dot matrix printer. It recently died. It was capable of using either dry or wet media. For the most part, I used dry.

And I never mixed in any polishes.

I understand that in wet tumbling the crud from the cases gets trapped in solution and then washes out easily. Does this crud affect septic systems? Does it pose different health hazards than dry tumbling?

The "crud" may or may not get "trapped" in the cleaning solution depending on what you put in the cleaning solution to enable it to "trap" the crud. So long as you are not tumbling industrial quantities of brass, it should not adversely impact a septic system. You do more damage to the efficiency of your septic system by discharging phosphates and bleach into it from your washing machine. Putting the wet tumbling solution into municipal wastewater may or may not be a problem. Check with your local utility. If they're already having trouble meeting lead levels in their discharge, they may not welcome you adding even trace amounts.

Wet tumbling requires stainless pins rather than traditional media, are there different grades of pins that work differently, perhaps different sizes? What would be problematic with using other inert media?

Wet or dry tumbling can use just about anything for a tumbling media. Stainless Steel pins are commonly used because they work, they don't rust and because the chromium content is low, can still be separated with a magnet.

But you can dry tumble with walnut shells, pecan shells, corn cobs, peanut shells, rice, beans, sand, ceramic beads, mica, plastic beads, etc. The results will differ with the choice of media, the tumbling speed and the duration of the tumbling. You can wet tumble with steel pins, bronze wire pins, ceramic beads, pretty much anything that won't disintegrate in the water, or you can choose to use no media at all (the detergent and citric acid most people use will produce very good results on their own).

Is there a notable difference in time in tumbler?

Yes. In general, the longer you tumble, the better the results. But it is a game of diminishing marginal returns. 2 hours in the tumbler will give better results than 1 hour. 12 hours will give even better results, but will there be enough difference to justify the additional time? That's something you have to experiment with and decide for yourself.

Suffice it to say I need educated on why the switch seems to be taking place. What is so attractive to draw people to this method over the traditional method, and are there any drawbacks to wet tumbling that we don't see with dry tumbling.

As i said earlier, I don't know that we have evidence of a widespread trend.

The attraction is shinier brass than can generally be obtained with dry tumbling.

The biggest drawback(s) is/are the added cost of wet tumbling, the time and equipment needed to dry the brass, and disposition of the wastewater (where that is an issue).

 

[SamT1]

UltraSonic cleaning is an entirely different animal from wet tumbling.

Yea I sold my ultra sonic. The only thing it would actually clean is the wife’s jewelry. It definetly won’t clean range brass. One day I’ll make me a wet tumbler or luck into one.

 

[GW Staar]

Neither. Fired in a MG with a really large chamber. Been there, done that.
Don

You're probably right......so bling away folks! Just don't stare at the brass too long....there may be eye damage.

Without seeing some sales figures from the equipment vendors, I would be hesitant to declare a trend based on posts made by people like you and I who have the time to regularly visit and post on these boards - we may not necessarily be representative of the entire reloading community.

Perhaps the best evidence is how many companies suddenly brought wet tumbling products to the market........after threads appeared first on AR15.com, then here, then many others.
Also that's evidence that those same companies read and keep up with the gun forums, and note....then take advantage of the trends they see.

Nuther example of that was AlliedArmory's "28 Dollar Bullet Feeder" posted in AR15.com.....next thing we know, RCBS, Hornady, and Mr. Bullet Feeder all have their versions! If that's not proof the gun forums make a difference.......

 

[FROGO207]

I have definitely noticed a lot more people talking about it on this forum as of late. I am only wet tumbling after I lucked into a Thumlers tumbler for almost nothing at a gun shop about 8 years ago. Otherwise I would be still happily using walnut media in a buzz box. I just do a load every night, rinse, then let it air dry and soon I have a large pile all done with little fuss. YMMV

 

[WestKentucky]

I dry tumbled 4 loads today. Started at 8am and the 4th load will be done before I leave in a bit for church. Part of that will be on the PIF page soon. The load in there now is some crusty old dies that needed some attention. I just hope it knocked off some of the internal rust.

 

[TheDomFather]

Seems as though there is a big change taking place in the reloading world. Used to be that everybody used to tumble in walnut or cob with a little polishing agent such as turbo bright mixed in. Threads now are showing a slow but steady move towards wet tumbling.

I understand that in wet tumbling the crud from the cases gets trapped in solution and then washes out easily. Does this crud affect septic systems? Does it pose different health hazards than dry tumbling?

Wet tumbling requires stainless pins rather than traditional media, are there different grades of pins that work differently, perhaps different sizes? What would be problematic with using other inert media? Is there a notable difference in time in tumbler?

Suffice it to say I need educated on why the switch seems to be taking place. What is so attractive to draw people to this method over the traditional method, and are there any drawbacks to wet tumbling that we don't see with dry tumbling.

Today is the first time in a long time I used my virbatory tumbler as I only needed 50 cases of .308 cleaned for working up a load with some 168 gr Berger VLD!

Here is what I would say:

Wet tumbling:
1. Takes longer - you need to decap first, tumble for 2 - 2.5 hours, rinse and dump water, put cases in dryer for 45 mins to an hour depending on # of cases.
2. Better results cases is clean and shiny inside and out and primer pockets are perfectly clean. I use 5lb of stainless steel pins that came with my frankford arsenal tumbler.

Virbatory tumbling:
1. Faster initially and super shiny cases when you use polish (I use Frankford Arsenal) 2 hours max and cases are super shiny!
2. Negatives - your cases are not clean on the inside, your primer pockets are not clean and this needs to be done so add a step for that.

I tend to build up a pile of dirty cases and do a large batch at once in the wet tumbler I would say you can easily do 500 .223 cases at a time in the Frankford Arsenal and maybe a max of 650 or so, I cannot fit that many cases in My frankford arsenal virbatory tumbler I would say max is 200- 250 cases.

 

[HDMontana]

I started wet tumbling 4 years ago. Have not dry tumbled since.

 

[Rule3]

Just IMAGINE if Dillon made a Wet Tumbler SYSTEM. There would be no end to the surgically clean brass!!

 

[Bang!]

Just IMAGINE if Dillon made a Wet Tumbler SYSTEM. There would be no end to the surgically clean brass!!

The WT650!