TooTaxed
Member
How are the Turkish-made shotguns in quality and reliability as compared to the Russian Baikels? Parts availability? What's your experience?
Turkish V. Russian Shotguns??
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New_geezer
Member
CZ and DeHann sell shotguns made by Huglu - between $500-$1,000. Both have excellent reputations so far. DeHaan is a bit of an independent who offers personalized service. CZ guns in general are well thought of.
Mossberg sells a Silver Reserve made by Khan. Khan also sells under its own name. Reviews seem to be hit or miss which kinda tells me their QC isn't quite up to snuff yet. Personally I don't think they're quite ready for prime time. Maybe some day but not yet. I can't speak to customer support. While I like Mossberg, it doesn't seem to do so well with the products it chooses to import.
Yildiz are sold under that name thru Academy Sporting Goods, the sole importer, so availability is limited. They only run $350-$550 but so far the press has been good from those who buy them. Support is from a third party whose name I can't recall at the moment, but supposedly has a good reputation.
The above mostly refer to O/Us or SxS but I believe Huglu also makes pumps and autos.
Hataan in another Turkish maker sold thru Legacy Sports. Pumps and autos, in California they're sold thru Big 5 stores, but don't know much about them.
www.Shotgunworld.com is a good resource, there is a lot of info on all these guns
I own a Baikal IZH-27 and like it a lot. In general they are built like a tank. Strong and I think durable but certainly not the lightest, most refined gun out there. At the lower end of the scale in O/Us you have to expect some compromises, it just depends where they are.
Mossberg sells a Silver Reserve made by Khan. Khan also sells under its own name. Reviews seem to be hit or miss which kinda tells me their QC isn't quite up to snuff yet. Personally I don't think they're quite ready for prime time. Maybe some day but not yet. I can't speak to customer support. While I like Mossberg, it doesn't seem to do so well with the products it chooses to import.
Yildiz are sold under that name thru Academy Sporting Goods, the sole importer, so availability is limited. They only run $350-$550 but so far the press has been good from those who buy them. Support is from a third party whose name I can't recall at the moment, but supposedly has a good reputation.
The above mostly refer to O/Us or SxS but I believe Huglu also makes pumps and autos.
Hataan in another Turkish maker sold thru Legacy Sports. Pumps and autos, in California they're sold thru Big 5 stores, but don't know much about them.
www.Shotgunworld.com is a good resource, there is a lot of info on all these guns
I own a Baikal IZH-27 and like it a lot. In general they are built like a tank. Strong and I think durable but certainly not the lightest, most refined gun out there. At the lower end of the scale in O/Us you have to expect some compromises, it just depends where they are.
ezypikns
Member
I bought a Russian Baikal IZH-43.....
and it's true, they are built like a tank. This was a SxS 12 gage with ejectors. The gun looks fine. Not pretty but not ugly either. The problem I had with it is that it was really hard to open and close due to the really stout cocking and ejector springs. The cowboy shooters have some homemade gunsmithing tricks which are said to virtually eliminate this problem.
I bought it for about 340.00 (including shipping) on GunBroker.
Having said all this, I still wanted something a little more refined, so I bought a CZ (Huglu) Canvasback. 12 gage O/U, 26 in barrels, looks good, shoots better. I paid 535.00 for mine at a local gun shop. Good luck.
and it's true, they are built like a tank. This was a SxS 12 gage with ejectors. The gun looks fine. Not pretty but not ugly either. The problem I had with it is that it was really hard to open and close due to the really stout cocking and ejector springs. The cowboy shooters have some homemade gunsmithing tricks which are said to virtually eliminate this problem.
I bought it for about 340.00 (including shipping) on GunBroker.
Having said all this, I still wanted something a little more refined, so I bought a CZ (Huglu) Canvasback. 12 gage O/U, 26 in barrels, looks good, shoots better. I paid 535.00 for mine at a local gun shop. Good luck.
It is mostly 20 guage and 16 guage Baikals that suffer from too hard opening.
The problem is that the Russians, in true communist fashion were using the same driving springs in the smaller guage guns that they were in the twelve guage guns.
A slight bit of over spring mass.
Trimming one to three coils eases the cocking force up a bit.
A touch of stoning gets rid of the burrs and sharp edges and these guns continue to slick and smooth out the more they are used.
Baikal has begun to use lighter more guage oriented springs in the newest production, and a bit of internal stoning still doesn't hurt.
With that 12 guage my advice is keep using it.
Be bold, run a few hundred rounds of three inch magnums through it and the gun will begin to settle down.
The stoning won't hurt either and you shouldn't have to trim the springs down.
The problem is that the Russians, in true communist fashion were using the same driving springs in the smaller guage guns that they were in the twelve guage guns.
A slight bit of over spring mass.
Trimming one to three coils eases the cocking force up a bit.
A touch of stoning gets rid of the burrs and sharp edges and these guns continue to slick and smooth out the more they are used.
Baikal has begun to use lighter more guage oriented springs in the newest production, and a bit of internal stoning still doesn't hurt.
With that 12 guage my advice is keep using it.
Be bold, run a few hundred rounds of three inch magnums through it and the gun will begin to settle down.
The stoning won't hurt either and you shouldn't have to trim the springs down.
Marshall
Member
Anyone know if CZ's 712/720 Semi-auto for $399.00 MSRP is a decent gun?
Father Knows Best
Member
Charles Daly's pump and autoloading shotguns are made by the Turkish firm Akkar. They're pretty good.
In double guns, I have both an Akkar-built "Liberty II" external hammer coach gun imported by Daly, and a Baikal hammerless double. The Akkar is the much better finished of the two. It has excellent metal work, nice (and real!) case coloring, good metal-to-wood fit, and decent checkering (for machine checkering, anyway). The turkish walnut stock is o.k., but the wood seems quite soft and picks up dents and nicks easily.
By contrast, the Baikal's attention to fit and finish is lacking, despite the fact that it is a "Supreme" model with nickel plated receiver. The metal polish isn't as nicely done, the wood-to-metal fit isn't as nice, and the checkering on the stock is the worst I've ever seen (it is very uneven, and isn't even applied straight).
Both the Akkar and the Baikal work every time, though. While neither would qualify as a "fine" double gun, they both go BANG every time, and pattern as well as can be expected for 20" open choke barrels. The barrels are also regulated well enough for my purposes (cowboy action shooting and the occasional round of "cowboy clays"). The Akkar is just much prettier.
In double guns, I have both an Akkar-built "Liberty II" external hammer coach gun imported by Daly, and a Baikal hammerless double. The Akkar is the much better finished of the two. It has excellent metal work, nice (and real!) case coloring, good metal-to-wood fit, and decent checkering (for machine checkering, anyway). The turkish walnut stock is o.k., but the wood seems quite soft and picks up dents and nicks easily.
By contrast, the Baikal's attention to fit and finish is lacking, despite the fact that it is a "Supreme" model with nickel plated receiver. The metal polish isn't as nicely done, the wood-to-metal fit isn't as nice, and the checkering on the stock is the worst I've ever seen (it is very uneven, and isn't even applied straight).
Both the Akkar and the Baikal work every time, though. While neither would qualify as a "fine" double gun, they both go BANG every time, and pattern as well as can be expected for 20" open choke barrels. The barrels are also regulated well enough for my purposes (cowboy action shooting and the occasional round of "cowboy clays"). The Akkar is just much prettier.
Fish Springs
Member
I've handled both Russian and Turkish guns and purchased a Yildiz because when handled at the same time the Yildiz is lively and well balanced. The IZH 27 or Spartan is as you said--solid and handles like a 2x4.
Baikals
I own 3 Baikals (2) 12 GAs (1) 410 12 GAs field & sport model all three were hard to open & close until you run a few hundred rnds through them, I put 4k out of the field & 7,250 so far out of the sport model. I shoot alot of skeet & 5 stand with the sport, They're great guns built like a tank. I highly recommend them.
I own 3 Baikals (2) 12 GAs (1) 410 12 GAs field & sport model all three were hard to open & close until you run a few hundred rnds through them, I put 4k out of the field & 7,250 so far out of the sport model. I shoot alot of skeet & 5 stand with the sport, They're great guns built like a tank. I highly recommend them.
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