turrets vs Progressive

[TCAS]

JFH,

thanks for the feed back. I did make it to the range today but first I'll answer some of the questions in your email.

1 yes all steps are performed on the press, as for the sizer dies, I'm using redding, The don't recommend setting the carbide die in contact with the shell holder. I have about the width of a sheet of paper between them. The dies are set to equal previous loads that shoot very well.

230 grain lead
2.245 OAL
.470 crimp

2 -flange is minimal no brass shaving but it took about 5 rounds to tweak. not a full 3/4 turn but close.

3 I did purchase the adjustable charge bar but have not really looked at it yet. I assume it works in the same manner as the disk and is not intended to be used with a disk????????????

4 My redding taper crimp/seater is only performing the seating function. The FCD is doing the crimp. I can notice more or less contact on the brass depending on brand. I loaded 4 brands. LC had the most contact, WW and Federal next and similiar. CCI had the least contact. I made no adjustment to the die for the different brands and outside diameter on the crimp never varied much. .470--.471

5- I clean my dies about 500 round with lead bullets so I'll just add some turret maintenance to the procedure.



Now for the range test. My Lee ammo was not as consistently accurate as my hand crafted single stage set up. I compared 50 round of each. The two powder charges were not exactly the same.


Single stage set up had 4.2 grains clays with a trickle charge to exact weight and Lee was throwing 4.3-4.4 grains. The single stage ammo had seat and crimp performed in seperate stages but no FCD was used. Otherwise all die set up was the same.

Single stage set up at 70 feet was shooting 90% of round into 2 inches no rest but I did lean against the indoor ange partition.

Turret set up at 70 feet. 75% of rounds into 2 inches. I fired the Turret set up first and had two big guns on each side of me. Lane 3 was shooting 45 colt and lane 5 was short barrel 357 magnum. By the time I got to the single stage rounds both sides were clear. This alone could account for the larger group size on the lee. I generally have good trigger control those big guns always seem louder at the indoor range. Many of the groups were great 4-5 shots touching. Overall the single stage had more hits inside the 2inch ring. More testing to come.

Tom C

 

[jfh]

Thanks for your range report and other comments, Tom.

I'm in the middle of that reloading project I mentioned earlier--and I expanded my 'replica' search for that Speer 38+P PD cartridge to include 357 Mag cases. IOW, I am trying to replicate the felt recoil of a factory 38+P round using a different round and different bullets. So, to 'move' a 38+P load to a '357 lite' load has involved much, much testing. I now have it sorted out pretty well for three powders, with one more to go.

These are being shot from J-frames--two of them (S&W 640 and S&W 340) have 2" barrels and are DAO; the third is a Model 65 (SA-DA, adj. sights, and a 3" barrel). The direct personal benefit is to accomplish a complete acclimation to this type of revolver shooting--and that is happening: A round I could just tolerate for a cylinderful in the 640 (24 oz) and found virtually unshootable in the 340 (13.3 oz) is now shootable in the 640 in a measured rapid-fire and with fairly fast reloads; with the 340, it is slower, but I can even use the speedloader and get a reload in--but ten rounds is it.

So, the reloading in this project has been (for example) first doing the Speer Data recipe for 38+P with their bullet with a powder they recommend and finding the load most similar to the factory round--then moving that load, adjusted as needed, to the 357 case and finding the load that approximates the factory recoil. Then, I move that basic data to a lead bullet of nominally the same weight.

Insofar as our discussion here, I've elaborated on my current reloading work because my range work is different from yours. With my aging eyes, I have trouble using the sights properly now. Needless to say, the nominal 4.5" sight radius is difficult under any circumstances. Given the usage parameters (personal defense from a carry gun), I shoot at 10 yards, and when I check for accuracy, I shoot from a benchrest.

OK, to the points at hand:

1. Re the adjustable charge bar. Get it out and read the instructions once, carefully (unless you are fixated on the Lee dipping / VMD routine), and forget that approach. Install it, and set it to something like ".4" on the vernier scale. With one of your powders, weigh that charge. Adjust it plus-one on the knob index, and weigh that. Do it again, and get a feel for how much you gain in weight with each standard index.

Then, do the inverse--set a weight on the scale, and get the measure adjusted to that weight. (When you adjust a bar, always go UP from lighter to heavier, and do at least two or three throws when you go down. When you go down, the bar 'compresses' the existing load in the cavity and can give a false reading.) Now increase your scale weight by .2 gr., and carefully adjust the knob index upwards to throw that weight. NOTE the index change--and repeat this several times, taking notes.

Once you get a feel for it, you will find, for example, that AA#5 increases .2 grain for about 1.25 indices. As you build this table of relative changes for each powder, you can quickly dial in the approximate increase on the bar and then confirm it on the scale. For my project above, I am increasing my charges in .1 (one-tenth) gr increments--and I can get that done in two charges, usually.

One last caveat--depending on the powder, the charge bar has a bottom limit--consider it to be about 3 grains for ball pistol powders--below which it will not be accurate. If you shoot any ultra-softball loads, keep that in mind. The problem is probably bridging, maybe even static--I've never investigated it, just found that limit and stay upwards of it.

With all this verbosity, here's why I discussed at length how to use the charge bar: You will now be able to dial in the exact charge weight you were shooting with when you did your single-stage reloading. When you do that, I will be curious to see your range results for accuracy. With my range time in my project, I am finding that two-tenths grain easily changes a group by 1/4" or even 1/2"

So, on your next range trip, see if you can't use some ammo with the same charge weight as your single-stage, but built on the Turret.

FYI, as I updated my gear this time around, I stayed with all Lee dies, to eliminate one possible variable for the time being. When you get around to it, you may want to try just Lee dies and set them up by Lee's directions.

OK, keep us updated, Tom.

Jim H.

 

[BAT1]

Turrent vs progressive

I also recommend the Lee Classic Turrent press. You can take out the rod and use it as a single stage for instance, for de-priming tumbled brass. I hand prime, then stick back in the rod and charge, press, and factory crimp. You just pull out the entire turrent with dies to put in another caliber setup, and continue. This can put out a hundreds of rounds an hour. It is better than a single stage, and if you have one now, you can use it for de-priming. I have mounted my Lee powder measure to the bench, and dump the load into my cup on the scale, adjust it to perfect and use a funnel to charge. Works for me, because I see each charge before I press.

 

[jmorris]

How much time do you have? How valuable is it? How much money are you willing to spend? If you were to answer those three questions it would narrow down your choices. I’ve got eight different reloading presses and I like the turrent when I only need a few rifle rounds as I can leave dies (up to six) for different calibers pre set, this is the less than 50+- at a time setup. If I’m looking at a few hundred of a new load (pistol) I use one of two Dillon SD’s. If I’m running 1000’s at a time for competition of the same load I use one of two 650’s decked out with powder check dies, case & bullet feeders. It has been pointed out before that progressives take longer to set up than the slower machines (tortoise vs. hair argument) that’s the reason for two of each, one large primer one small, without having to change the priming system a 650 can be converted from 9mm to say 223 in under 5min. Now for your needs, IMO < 100 rounds a year you might as well stick with what you’ve got, same goes for 30 a week. 100 a week really isn’t that much unless your time is really valuable to you, a progressive is probably not justifiable (if you had one you would be loading for many months of shooting at one time).