Twist Rate .308
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Uncle Mike
Member
Twist rate has a significant impact on all calibers!
The 1/10" twist will offer you more latitude in bullet weights. Don't buy into the 'over spun' theory.....myth!
I order 308 match barrels with the 1:10 twist.
This is the original 30-40 krag and 30-06 twist. The M14 came out with a 1:12 twist, but was to be only shot with 150's or 174 match.
The 1:10 twist will shoot 125 through 200 grain bullets with match grade accuracy. Probably would work well with 220's and 240's, but I have not tried those. The 1:12 is becomes marginal at the 190 grain level.
It is my considered opinion that Savage knows what they are doing, and Remington does not.
It is possible that Remington no longer has the corporate memory or firearms enthusiasts are not involved in the product design.
This is the original 30-40 krag and 30-06 twist. The M14 came out with a 1:12 twist, but was to be only shot with 150's or 174 match.
The 1:10 twist will shoot 125 through 200 grain bullets with match grade accuracy. Probably would work well with 220's and 240's, but I have not tried those. The 1:12 is becomes marginal at the 190 grain level.
It is my considered opinion that Savage knows what they are doing, and Remington does not.
It is possible that Remington no longer has the corporate memory or firearms enthusiasts are not involved in the product design.
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most of my 308's are 12-twisted. if i could have dictated the twist rate on them, they would all be 10-twist. that said, i have settled on the 165-168 grain bullet weights for all 308 win rifles, and i don't have any mis-givings about not having more 10-twists.
Uncle Mike
Member
I'l agree, except with the 7mm-08, 11.5" twist they settled on! :banghead:
yup, too busy counting money they aren't making!
thomis
Member
This is a great thread considering that I was thinking of posting a very similar question. This is also helping me to decide on the Savage. The Sako barrels offer 1:11 I think, for those that want something btw 10 and 12...
cheers
thomis
cheers
thomis
Just for reference, a page from the Lilja Barrels site...
http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/caliber_twist_rates.htm
I got so tired of looking it up every time I had a question about twist rates I printed two copies. One to stick inside the cover of Cartridges of the World, and the other for my general shooting stuff binder.
http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/caliber_twist_rates.htm
I got so tired of looking it up every time I had a question about twist rates I printed two copies. One to stick inside the cover of Cartridges of the World, and the other for my general shooting stuff binder.
I have an older Winchester 70 Stealth with 1:12 twist. It works well with 168 gr bullets but I'm unsure of the 175 gr, it may or may not shoot those well. Hasn't hindered me though as the 168 gr does all I need. If I need heavier I'll reach for the .300 H&H.
OK, so I like the 700 action and the 700P in particular. I see three ways to proceed:
-A have custom rifle built similar to the 700P with a 1:10 twist built by a gunsmith that knows what he is doing. (advantage quality components, disadvantage $$)
-Buy a 700P live with the 1:12 twist until it's time to rebarrel. Pay a gunsmith to true the action and fix whatever else might ail it.
-Buy a 10FP (with the HS Precision stock) and live with the Savage action. Don't get me wrong there's nothing really wrong with the Savage action, its' just that I like the Remington action better.
Also, it looks like CZ offers 1:12 twists on all of their 550 varmints. I took a look at what match grade cartridges are available. Most of them are 168 and 175 grain, the largest was 180 grain, but Sierra does offer .308 diameter Matchking bullets all the way up to 240 grain. What are you guys using for 400 and 600 yard shooting? What is the practical limit of bullet weight for .308 Win?
-A have custom rifle built similar to the 700P with a 1:10 twist built by a gunsmith that knows what he is doing. (advantage quality components, disadvantage $$)
-Buy a 700P live with the 1:12 twist until it's time to rebarrel. Pay a gunsmith to true the action and fix whatever else might ail it.
-Buy a 10FP (with the HS Precision stock) and live with the Savage action. Don't get me wrong there's nothing really wrong with the Savage action, its' just that I like the Remington action better.
Also, it looks like CZ offers 1:12 twists on all of their 550 varmints. I took a look at what match grade cartridges are available. Most of them are 168 and 175 grain, the largest was 180 grain, but Sierra does offer .308 diameter Matchking bullets all the way up to 240 grain. What are you guys using for 400 and 600 yard shooting? What is the practical limit of bullet weight for .308 Win?
Uncle Mike
Member
I think it's called the 155gr Lapua Scenar madness.
168 a-max's
don't know, but i do know the guys running the 155 scenars at distance are getting a pretty strong gathering. if i were to take a stab at it, i'd say a 308 doesn't have enough oomph to justify much beyond 175 grain bullets...
MTMilitiaman
Member
The .308 is as affected, adversely or otherwise, by twist rate as the .223, or any other caliber.
The 1:12 twist would be intended mostly for bullets of 150 gr or less. You find it mostly in varminter rifles and battle rifles intended to shoot light for caliber fragnibles on varmints or still modest for caliber FMJ ball ammo, respectively.
The 1:10 can handle pretty much anything normally encountered in the caliber. In the .308 Win/7.62x51 this would normally include everything up to about the 175 gr SMK.
My Springfield Armory M1A has a medium contour 1:11 they claim will handle up to 175 gr as well. I've never shot anything over 168 gr in it.
The standard ball round is perfectly capable of doing 600 yards, but for that distance I would still prefer the faster twist rate and heavier (longer) 168 amd 175 gr SMK. Go with 1:10 if that is an option.
The 1:12 twist would be intended mostly for bullets of 150 gr or less. You find it mostly in varminter rifles and battle rifles intended to shoot light for caliber fragnibles on varmints or still modest for caliber FMJ ball ammo, respectively.
The 1:10 can handle pretty much anything normally encountered in the caliber. In the .308 Win/7.62x51 this would normally include everything up to about the 175 gr SMK.
My Springfield Armory M1A has a medium contour 1:11 they claim will handle up to 175 gr as well. I've never shot anything over 168 gr in it.
The standard ball round is perfectly capable of doing 600 yards, but for that distance I would still prefer the faster twist rate and heavier (longer) 168 amd 175 gr SMK. Go with 1:10 if that is an option.
Jim Watson
Member
Most accounts I have seen say the 12 twist will do fine with 175 grain boattails.
Mr Berger thinks a 13 will do for his.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Target Bullets.html
My factory Savage 12 was OK with 175s, no better with 155s, not great with anything.
When I replaced it, I played super safe and got a 10 because an 11 was not available in the configuration I wanted. Next one will be a 12.
Mr Berger thinks a 13 will do for his.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Target Bullets.html
My factory Savage 12 was OK with 175s, no better with 155s, not great with anything.
When I replaced it, I played super safe and got a 10 because an 11 was not available in the configuration I wanted. Next one will be a 12.
Rob96
Member
I wonder what twist the military Remington 700 sniper rifles use? I just read of the longest recorded sniper shot with a 700 in 308. A Marine sniper took out an insurgent at a lasered 1,375yds. So much for those that say the 308 is a 800yd gun.
MTMilitiaman
Member
It's just like the 5.56. You buy an AR with a 1:9 twist, you take a gamble. Some of them will shooting the 75-77 gr rounds. Some of them won't. If you have no interest in the longer/heavier rounds, this is fine. If you're like me and prefer these rounds, you probably aren't a fan of gambling and simply insist on a faster twist rate. Thus, I prefer my .308s to have a 1:11 twist or faster. It isn't critical, but if I have a choice, I'll go for the faster twist rate. That goes for pretty much everything I shoot, because my preference for heavy for caliber projectiles holds true for pretty much everything.
or if you like remington you could buy a mil-spec 5R, it has an 11.25 twist. I shoot 175's and 190's most times. Incidentally, I also shoot ultramax 110gr out of it for coyotes and it shoots those extremely well. Of course th BC on the 110's suck so I don't use them for long range target smacking.
USSR
Member
Twist rate on the .308 (in relation to the various bullet weights available) is not as critical as the .223. Despite some of the internet "chatter", the 1-12" twist rate works with the heavy bullets. I shoot a lot of 190SMK's out of mine, and I know guys who have used 210gr bullets with success.
Don
Don
Rob96
Member
Don't recall saying it is a trend. It just pretty much shows that in capable hands it works.
klineia,
i had a similar decision matrix built (700p vs custom 700 vs etc) and came up with 700p, and invest as i go, particularly thinking of when it's time to rebarrel. that way i got what i wanted, but was able to spread the cost out over time a bit.
not sure what twist i'll go with when the time comes, but i'm likely to call up whatever company i have and mind and talk with them for a few hours about it.
good luck!
i had a similar decision matrix built (700p vs custom 700 vs etc) and came up with 700p, and invest as i go, particularly thinking of when it's time to rebarrel. that way i got what i wanted, but was able to spread the cost out over time a bit.
not sure what twist i'll go with when the time comes, but i'm likely to call up whatever company i have and mind and talk with them for a few hours about it.
good luck!
someone I know who shoots a custom savage .308 in 1000yrs bench competition, says he uses a 200gr 7.62mm bullet. I'm not sure what twist rate the barrel uses, but he spent $300 on the barrel alone, uses the barrel nut wrench and headspace gauge to do the swap himself. Supposedly it has a higher BC than any 6.5mm bullet, yet they are still dominating competitions.
Shadow-Warrior
Member
I have a SAKO TRG that shoots 1/8" (5) shot groups @ 100 yds. I also handload 168 SMK's using 44 gr Varget. The TRG has a 1:11 Twist. I also shoot the 155 gr Scenars too.
Mike
Mike
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