lizziedog1
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.25-06 Remington and .35 Whelen. The first to handle varmints to deer. The second for anything bigger.
Two Hunting Rifles - Which Calibers?
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brnmuenchow
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I also don't want to tick off or offend America's beloved .30-06, however I just don't feel comfortable with big game unless I have a .300Win.Mag. or more gun to do the trick, and yes the .375H&H.Mag. is also a great choice.
txhoghunter
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.204 and 7mm
Great input from all. Effective shot-placement is assumed, and for this discussion I'm thinking chest-cavity.
Below are some general ballistics comparisons for the .22 range. LR and WM data from CCI website, Hornet and .223 from Shootingtimes. Drop based on zero at 200 yards. For the .22LR and 22WM both CCI and ShootingTimes give data only out to 100 yards, and no drop as are considered zeroed at 100 yards.
.......................................100 yards..................300 yards
................................ft/sec....ft/lb...drop......ft/sec...ft/lb...drop
.22LR 40gr....................897......72.....n/a*.......n/a*
.22LR 32gr...................1066......81
.22WM mini-mag 40gr....1319.....155....n/a*.......n/a*
.22WM v-max 30gr........1571.....164
.22H 35gr....................2278.....403...+3..........1135...100...-17
.22H 45gr....................2042.....417...+3.5.........947....90...-20
.223 40gr....................3120.....685...+1..........2297...469...-6
.223 55gr....................2747.....921...+1.6.......1905...443...-8
The 25-06 is not included as it is a much heavier bullet and I felt too much for the lower-end caliber choice.
Would a .22LR or .22WM be big enough for 'yotes? Out to what range? As the ballistics data sources only give data to 100 yards for these, I'd expect them to be a short-range choice only.
The Hornet falls in between to balance use between bushy-tails and 'yotes. But I do like the .223 for cost-and-choice of ammo over the Hornet, and the flatter trajectory.
Sure, the 30-06 could be used for 'yotes with a lighter grained bullet, but I'd think it would do too much damage if the goal was to save the hide. So for 'yotes and smaller I'm looking to the smaller-caliber gun of the two that would be owned, and the larger caliber for game bigger than 'yotes.
The .223 would be a bit much for rabbit-sized critters if one wanted to have something left for the table. Maybe the Hornet would be as well. OK, maybe we'll have to concede that owning a 22LR is a given...
The 30-06 has it's shortcomings for bear and bison, although a 220-grain would help. Therein lies the challenge in this discussion - there are tradeoffs when limited to two calibers. For it's all around versatility and ammo availability, I'd still stick with the '06 for the larger caliber choice. When hunting bear, just go with a friend that has the .338 or .375
If we concede the 22LR, then I'm still with the .223 and 30-06.
Below are some general ballistics comparisons for the .22 range. LR and WM data from CCI website, Hornet and .223 from Shootingtimes. Drop based on zero at 200 yards. For the .22LR and 22WM both CCI and ShootingTimes give data only out to 100 yards, and no drop as are considered zeroed at 100 yards.
.......................................100 yards..................300 yards
................................ft/sec....ft/lb...drop......ft/sec...ft/lb...drop
.22LR 40gr....................897......72.....n/a*.......n/a*
.22LR 32gr...................1066......81
.22WM mini-mag 40gr....1319.....155....n/a*.......n/a*
.22WM v-max 30gr........1571.....164
.22H 35gr....................2278.....403...+3..........1135...100...-17
.22H 45gr....................2042.....417...+3.5.........947....90...-20
.223 40gr....................3120.....685...+1..........2297...469...-6
.223 55gr....................2747.....921...+1.6.......1905...443...-8
The 25-06 is not included as it is a much heavier bullet and I felt too much for the lower-end caliber choice.
Would a .22LR or .22WM be big enough for 'yotes? Out to what range? As the ballistics data sources only give data to 100 yards for these, I'd expect them to be a short-range choice only.
The Hornet falls in between to balance use between bushy-tails and 'yotes. But I do like the .223 for cost-and-choice of ammo over the Hornet, and the flatter trajectory.
Sure, the 30-06 could be used for 'yotes with a lighter grained bullet, but I'd think it would do too much damage if the goal was to save the hide. So for 'yotes and smaller I'm looking to the smaller-caliber gun of the two that would be owned, and the larger caliber for game bigger than 'yotes.
The .223 would be a bit much for rabbit-sized critters if one wanted to have something left for the table. Maybe the Hornet would be as well. OK, maybe we'll have to concede that owning a 22LR is a given...
The 30-06 has it's shortcomings for bear and bison, although a 220-grain would help. Therein lies the challenge in this discussion - there are tradeoffs when limited to two calibers. For it's all around versatility and ammo availability, I'd still stick with the '06 for the larger caliber choice. When hunting bear, just go with a friend that has the .338 or .375
If we concede the 22LR, then I'm still with the .223 and 30-06.
Thank you.
Even a Hornet will turn a squirrel inside out. But then again, headshots with a .22LR at 100 yards are a bit iffy and not a problem for the Hornet.
.22WMR and .17WMR have been used on 'yotes past 100 yards, but becomes questionable much beyond that. You can push the Hornet faster than what you have listed, and it would be good to ~200yd.
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That's why I went straight to the .338-06.
And the .260 for varmints to deer, long range pronghorns and goats, even works for mule deer and sheep. (Same goes for the 6.5x55 Swede, and does a bit better with heavier bullets). If you need more than the .260, the .338-06 is not too big of a jump, and could even be downloaded for deer, but is plenty adequate for anything in North America. Same could be said for the .35 Whelen, but the BC of the .338 caliber bullets beats it past 200 yards.
DM~
Member
As a long time big bear hunter, i know that a "properly loaded" (read 200NP's) 30-06 will do the job, but a 7mm Rem. mag. loaded with ------> 175NP's does do a bit better job without "big" magnum recoil!
SO, if i could only have two, it would be a .243 Win. (100NP's on deer sized animals) for the small animals, and a properly loaded 7mm Rem. mag., for moose and big bears. Take big bears out of the mix, and i'd change my choises!
I will add here, because i was the guy that had to go into the alders after a big bear was shot, i built myself and carried for many years (since the 70's) a .338-06 loaded with 275 Speers. It was and is BIG, big bear medicine!
DM
SO, if i could only have two, it would be a .243 Win. (100NP's on deer sized animals) for the small animals, and a properly loaded 7mm Rem. mag., for moose and big bears. Take big bears out of the mix, and i'd change my choises!
I will add here, because i was the guy that had to go into the alders after a big bear was shot, i built myself and carried for many years (since the 70's) a .338-06 loaded with 275 Speers. It was and is BIG, big bear medicine!
DM
click clack
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.22 mag and 45-70
WTBguns10kOK
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.22 and .243
federalfarmer
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.22 mag and .300 win
UniversalFrost
Member
my two choices are .243 and 30/06
.243 does deer and below sized animals very well
30/06 does deer and larger sized animals very well
My two go to hunting rifles are
a .243 based on a GEW 98 Mauser with light contour 22" sporter barrel, iron sights, nikon buckmasers 3 - 9x40 scope in see thru rings and a fajen synthetic stock that is bedded to the action.
and
a Winchester Model 70 (1974) in 30/06 with iron sights, 22" barrel and iron sights along with a nikon buckmasters 3-9x40 scope with warne bases and quick release rings and a very nice wooden stock.
these two guns will serve all my hunting from yotes to bear.
.243 does deer and below sized animals very well
30/06 does deer and larger sized animals very well
My two go to hunting rifles are
a .243 based on a GEW 98 Mauser with light contour 22" sporter barrel, iron sights, nikon buckmasers 3 - 9x40 scope in see thru rings and a fajen synthetic stock that is bedded to the action.
and
a Winchester Model 70 (1974) in 30/06 with iron sights, 22" barrel and iron sights along with a nikon buckmasters 3-9x40 scope with warne bases and quick release rings and a very nice wooden stock.
these two guns will serve all my hunting from yotes to bear.
TexasPatriot.308
Member
.375 H&H? are we talking about the U.S. here? unless you want to get expensive and exotic....low end .22 lr....high end with the right ammo the 30-06 or .338 at the most forAlaskan big game.
ironhead7544
Member
22-250 and 35 Whelen. Handloading these two would cover anything I can think off.
If were just talking limits of 2 rifles then the 30-06 and 22 RF make the most sense. The '06 can deal w/ anything on this continent with good bullets, like a 200gr Barnes TSX or Nosler 200gr partition. Assuming of course steel nerves and good bullet placement. You can also distance shoot vermin w/ 125gr or other light weights. So, weve got ground hogs at range thru polar bears covered. For all short range small game or vermin, the 22 is had to beat w/ care. Plus practice is very affordable. If on the otherhand were looking at the apocolypse, the the -06 is still tops for the mentioned reasons, plus the fact ammo can be found almost anyhere. The follow up gu might be better as a 22 Hornet due to the reloadable factor. Cast bullets woild work well in either, plus the Hornet with cast packs a good solid small game punch. The rimfire still has merit due to it worldwide presence.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
If you leave prairie dogs out of the deal, I could go along with a .22 rimfire instead of a .223. For everything from coyotes on up, the old '06 will do anything needed until you get into the Big Bear deal.
Heck, from around 1950 until the late 1960s, all I ever had was a .22 rimfire and an '06. I didn't know I needed anything else.
The nice thing about an '06 and handloading is the use of a round lead ball for squirrels, an 80-grain pistol bullet for jackrabbits--and on up to 180s for elk or moose.
Modern bullet technology has made even the .223 into a reasonably useful small-deer rifle.
Heck, from around 1950 until the late 1960s, all I ever had was a .22 rimfire and an '06. I didn't know I needed anything else.
The nice thing about an '06 and handloading is the use of a round lead ball for squirrels, an 80-grain pistol bullet for jackrabbits--and on up to 180s for elk or moose.
Modern bullet technology has made even the .223 into a reasonably useful small-deer rifle.
Consider this:
.25-06 with the typical 3-9 x 40 scope for Coyote, Deer, etc.
.35 Whelen with a low (say 1.5-5 x 32ish) scope and a 21" tube for elk, bear, etc.
You'd be OK with .25-06 100-115 Grainers on deer and coyote (wouldn't have to re-zero) and factory ammo's relatively availible.
The .35 you could load up some .357 pistol RNL's at low velocity and have your squirrel/rabbit end of the spectrum covered. Regular 250 grain (or some of the Double Tap loads) should kill even bigger bears just fine (ask Elmer Keith).
.25-06 with the typical 3-9 x 40 scope for Coyote, Deer, etc.
.35 Whelen with a low (say 1.5-5 x 32ish) scope and a 21" tube for elk, bear, etc.
You'd be OK with .25-06 100-115 Grainers on deer and coyote (wouldn't have to re-zero) and factory ammo's relatively availible.
The .35 you could load up some .357 pistol RNL's at low velocity and have your squirrel/rabbit end of the spectrum covered. Regular 250 grain (or some of the Double Tap loads) should kill even bigger bears just fine (ask Elmer Keith).
IndispensableDestiny
Member
If I had to pick two of my guns, I'd take the .22 WMR bolt and .308 lever.
Hangingrock
Member
Advice from the multitudes cost nothing and is usually worth the same. This includes what ever utterances or written opinions I would have on the subject also. A man has to know his limitations.
Notice the above disclaimer: 30-06 and .223 as good a combination as has been put forth so far in this subject. If it were to include the option of a 3rd rifle then the .22RF would be a selection with merit. Limited two rifles I’d say yes to both the 30-06 and .223.
Notice the above disclaimer: 30-06 and .223 as good a combination as has been put forth so far in this subject. If it were to include the option of a 3rd rifle then the .22RF would be a selection with merit. Limited two rifles I’d say yes to both the 30-06 and .223.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
"A man has to know his limitations."
True. But as the years go by, I realize that my limitations are less and less. My lap times keep getting faster, the racks have more points and the body weights get bigger.
At least in the stories I tell, anyway...
True. But as the years go by, I realize that my limitations are less and less. My lap times keep getting faster, the racks have more points and the body weights get bigger.
At least in the stories I tell, anyway...
Cinaed
Member
.32 cal for squirrels and rabbits; .54 for anything else, and both in flintlock.
davidfletcher
Member
6.5x55 SW and 35 Whelen.
Sheepdog1968
Member
I personally like the 30-30 lever actions and it would be my top choice but I don't reccomend it to folks.
If I had to reccomend two hunting rifles:
.308 (the more modern cartridges in the last 20 years have gotten the velocities up to the point that they are the equivalent of what a preWWII 30-06 did.
45-70 Range is somewhat limited (say 125 yards) but with it, you can load it with 500 grain solids and hunt just about anything on the planet as long as you operate within the trajectory envelope. Given it's a 125 yard or less rifle, I'd just put ghost rings sights on it.
If I had to reccomend two hunting rifles:
.308 (the more modern cartridges in the last 20 years have gotten the velocities up to the point that they are the equivalent of what a preWWII 30-06 did.
45-70 Range is somewhat limited (say 125 yards) but with it, you can load it with 500 grain solids and hunt just about anything on the planet as long as you operate within the trajectory envelope. Given it's a 125 yard or less rifle, I'd just put ghost rings sights on it.
AStone
Member
Should have been a poll with two choices.
Mine, based on history and availability:
.30-30 and .22 (LR and short).
Rifles: Marlin 336, Marlin 39A.
Mine, based on history and availability:
.30-30 and .22 (LR and short).
Rifles: Marlin 336, Marlin 39A.
towboat_er
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243 and 45-70
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