Really impressed with these guns, compared to the Russian Mosins they have better sights, and generally a better action and trigger. On the left is a 1942 Sako, the right one is a 1944 VKT. Using Russian surplus ammo at 50 yards, my best groups were on the right of the target photo three shots touching - slightly over a half inch from the Sako, and a sub one inch group on the left from the VKT. My best at 100 yards was 2.5". With my 56 year old eyes I'm happy with that.
Two New Finnish Mosin Nagants
- Thread starter Paul7
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Holescreek
Member
I just started reading up in the Finn captures in the last week or so. It's amazing how close the Russians were to a good shooting rifle and all it took was a barrel and a few tweaks. How's the groups if you shoot more than 3 shots? I've been doing accuracy testing with 54r for awhile now and find that the groups open up drastically on the 4th or 5th shot with just about every rifle I've tried.
Haven't done five shot groups, I'm sure they would open up more. Three shot seems to be what is done a lot these days.
I find the Finns a lot more ergonomic than the Russians, maybe due to the shorter barrel and better stock. For some reason the recoil is more manageable on the Finns also.
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Ash
Member
Finns have better triggers, better sights, a better stock, and closer attention to assembly than the Russians. M39's can be remarkably accurate.
Jackal
Member
My VKT Finn regularly outshot my K31 (when I had the Swiss). Gotta love a 4.5lb, crisp 2 stage pull. This VKT outshoots my old Sako that I had years ago.
How do they shoot? My Sako is pretty worn but shoots as good or better than my unissued VKT, of course it may still be getting broken in.
WardenWolf
member
Actually, the Russian Mosin WAS good-shooting. It was on par with any mainstream bolt action used by any major player in the war. The Finns just took an already good rifle and tuned it up to be even better. And they're STILL using them, to this day.
Ash
Member
Yeah, in fairness, indifferent Soviet infantry rifles don't shoot bad. They do the job just fine based on Soviet tactics. The Czech cold war sniper rifles are all based on the 91/30 (albeit like the Finns, they heavily modified them). The barrels on Soviet guns were fine - the Finns had no problem using them. Other than refinements like better sights and stocks, the really great change the Finns did (in addition to M28/30 sights, also used on M39's, were outstanding combat sights) was the incorporation of a two-stage trigger.
It wasn't hard to do, as the Finns largely used modified Soviet/Russian triggers. The Soviets didn't want a two-stage, focusing instead on the surprise of the shot. Finns wanted men to know when their shot would occur and modified the trigger to a two-stage one, which works really great.
Soviet mosins from time to time end up with with a two-stage by accident. I have a 91/59 that has a really sweet two-stage and it came that way from SOG a decade and a half ago.
It wasn't hard to do, as the Finns largely used modified Soviet/Russian triggers. The Soviets didn't want a two-stage, focusing instead on the surprise of the shot. Finns wanted men to know when their shot would occur and modified the trigger to a two-stage one, which works really great.
Soviet mosins from time to time end up with with a two-stage by accident. I have a 91/59 that has a really sweet two-stage and it came that way from SOG a decade and a half ago.
caribou
Member
Things like Finnish Mosin Nagants reminds me that this world may be OK after all......
If I could, I'd make mine a M-39 Mosin. Its a tool worth obtaining, using and caring for, it'll care for you right back, in every way you ask of it.
If I could, I'd make mine a M-39 Mosin. Its a tool worth obtaining, using and caring for, it'll care for you right back, in every way you ask of it.
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carbine85
Member
The Finn built rifles are more refined with better barrels, triggers, barrel bands, stocks and fitment of the bolt. The Russian guns are not known for accuracy like a Mauser, Enfield, or 1903.
Those are some nice Finns.
Those are some nice Finns.
GBExpat
Member
I bought an M39 from WG&A in '04 for $150. At about the same time I purchase a couple of 91/30s.
The performance of the 91/30s is sad but the M39 is ACCURATE.
Last time I took it out for a walk around the farm (several years ago), I recall sitting at a picnic table at the old farmhouse and shooting fist-size rocks far across the lake, ~200 yards away. Nice!
The performance of the 91/30s is sad but the M39 is ACCURATE.
Last time I took it out for a walk around the farm (several years ago), I recall sitting at a picnic table at the old farmhouse and shooting fist-size rocks far across the lake, ~200 yards away. Nice!
They have gone up quite a bit in value, I'm pretty sure they'll be worth more in 10 years than today. A lot less Finns out there than the Russian Mosins.I bought an M39 from WG&A in '04 for $150. At about the same time I purchase a couple of 91/30s.
The performance of the 91/30s is sad but the M39 is ACCURATE.
Last time I took it out for a walk around the farm (several years ago), I recall sitting at a picnic table at the old farmhouse and shooting fist-size rocks far across the lake, ~200 yards away. Nice!
GBExpat
Member
True, True and True.
And don't we both wish that we had our 40 year-old eyes back ... heck, while we are wishing, make that 20 year-old eyes.
I vote for a sliding scale for what is considered a good group depending on age.True, True and True.
And don't we both wish that we had our 40 year-old eyes back ... heck, while we are wishing, make that 20 year-old eyes.
kBob
Member
When I joined THR it almost seemed to me it should have be called the M-N Road as it seemed no page could have less than three M-N threads listed.
Threads about pressure bedding stocks, trigger shims, re- crowning and you name it. Of course even as late as 2006 ammo shipping seemed cost almost more than the ammo.
Wish Ida #4633......That Guns and Ammo lady had Finns that were pre 1898 receiver-ed and I just kept putting it off......
Tear stained sheets.....
-kBob
Threads about pressure bedding stocks, trigger shims, re- crowning and you name it. Of course even as late as 2006 ammo shipping seemed cost almost more than the ammo.
Wish Ida #4633......That Guns and Ammo lady had Finns that were pre 1898 receiver-ed and I just kept putting it off......
Tear stained sheets.....
-kBob
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My 91/30 use to start opening up by round 8 or so. By shot 15 I'd be high right by a good 8" at 100yds. Shooting a 50rd Vintage match that was a problem. Pulled the action from the stock and opened the bbl channel up, top and bottom using a small cutoff wheel in a dremel. A sanding drum did nothing due to the amount of oil in the stock. Next match POI stayed the same through all 50 rds.
Ash
Member
Finnish rifles were held to very high accuracy standards when it came to military rifles, and they were kept to a 5 shot groups.
What Mosins have you shot that opened up terribly on the 4th shot? That has never been an issue with Finnish Mosins that I have ever heard over the last 20 years. Some rebuilt Russian ones could have stock-warping, but the only problem that has consistently been heard was sticky bolt from dried on cosmoline in chambers.
The Finns shimmed their actions to reduce stock contact and that could account for consistent accuracy. They even bedded some actions.
My M28/76 below is glass bedded and it's groups don't open up at all, but neither does my Westinghouse M91. It is in its original stock, though.
What Mosins have you shot that opened up terribly on the 4th shot? That has never been an issue with Finnish Mosins that I have ever heard over the last 20 years. Some rebuilt Russian ones could have stock-warping, but the only problem that has consistently been heard was sticky bolt from dried on cosmoline in chambers.
The Finns shimmed their actions to reduce stock contact and that could account for consistent accuracy. They even bedded some actions.
My M28/76 below is glass bedded and it's groups don't open up at all, but neither does my Westinghouse M91. It is in its original stock, though.
GBExpat
Member
One of the really nice things about bolt action rifles is most folks find that they don't burn thru ammo (anyway near) as quickly as with semi-autos ... and they still have the same smiles on their faces.
This is a good accessory to have in the field or when SHTF happens. Just slung across the shoulder and go.
http://strikehardgear.com/mosin-nagant-bandolier/
http://strikehardgear.com/mosin-nagant-bandolier/
Ash
Member
Paul, sorry, the pics got put in the 7.62x54r thread.
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