Two of My Safes Broken Into - Getting a new Good One Now

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RoyWalkeriv

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I had 3 safes from WallyWorld installed in my house. Total cost about $120. Two were used as 'easy to find' decoys, one in bedroom closet and the other at the foot of the bed, both screwed to the floor with 4 lag bolts. Took me about 5 minutes to secure them. I had the house for sale and was out of state and suspect that the realtor 'showed' the house to probably a couple. One kept the agent occupied while the other unlocked the perfect back window. Later that night, they crawled through the back window. They found the two safes and it probably took them a good bit less time to break into both safes than it took me to secure them to the floor, with one WHACK of a hammer to knock the front locking assembly off the Sentry safes. My mistake :banghead: was having too much ammo in the 2nd safe, so they made off with about 2000 rnds of varied caliber. They made off with a Buck 110 knife and another nice knife in the 1st safe.
What I DID do right, was concealment of the 3rd safe, hiding it fairly well so that once they 'cracked' the first two, they thought that was it - no more safes. In my 3rd concealed safe was about $5k worth of coins. They never found or touched that safe.

What I learned:
1) Concealment is just as important as a good safe. You CAN be safe with a $40 safe, IF you have great concealment.
2) Having a decoy safe or two can really help.
3) My next safe, I've found a Sturdy Safe I'm going to buy, will have extra steel and be concealed, along with a decoy safe or two. And yes, it'll also be bolted to the floor.
4) Crack heads will go to any length for their next fix, with no conscious.


Question: Does anyone know approximately how many lbs, having TWO 1/2" bolts into hard wood floor, will add to the "grip" or 'weight' or 'pry resistance'? (the safe will weigh about 300 lbs, the contents, ammo and gns, about 150 lbs, that's 450 lbs, so would the two bolts add at least another 550 lbs?
 
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You don't mention how thick the hardwood flooring is.

If you have 1.5" thick flooring, it would take a crowbar to pop those two .5" screws out.

If your flooring is .75" thick, a wonder bar would probably be up to the task.

I suggest that you find a more secure method of mounting.
 
I don't know how thick the floors are - let's say 1.5".
Those 0.5" screws were the diameter, not length but your point is taken.
So bolts and large washers would do the trick?
 
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You might also look into an internal safe alarm. Have it De-activated from a key switch on the outside or have it set to go off at a set time after the safe is opened. Years ago I made one for my garage door. Hope those thief's die a horrible death.
 
Thanks for the idea on the internal alarm. Didn't know about those.
Yeah, I haven't had good thoughts about the burglars. I suspect a friend's strung out son.
 
I hate to burst your bubble, but if you had a real safe & had it mounted securely, you'd still have your stuff.

A cheap safe is only OK *if nobody finds it*. If the people who burgled your home hadn't been in a hurry to leave, they'd have $5K worth of coins to go with your ammo.
 
I had 3 safes from WallyWorld installed in my house. Total cost about $120
Click to expand...
Well, there's your problem!!

You didn't buy safes, you bought glorified Gym lockers for $40 each!!

If you want a gun safe, you have to buy a gun safe, not a cheap sheet metal cabinet.

You can easily open one of those up with a hatchet or ax.

rc
 
If I was going to bolt something to a wooden floor I would go with 1/2x6" lag bolts into a floor joist. My cabinets in the garage are lag bolted to the wall studs and with anchor bolts into the concrete floor. They might cut them open but it will take a while to remove them.
 
When I bolted my safes down I used 5-8 bolts with 3/8 plate cut to 6"x6" as washers on the wood side under the house. I want say they can't get it, but they'll certainly have to put some work into it.

It would probably be easier to get into them, they're just Liberty Franklin series's and with what I have in my shop........I need to shut up now befor I give you guys any ideas. :scrutiny::scrutiny:


To the OP, as you stated you need a better safe, at least something more than a metal cabinet.
 
I've learned a lot in the last couple years about what constitutes a "safe", and in all honesty, almost all gun safes are NOT considered "safes" by professionals. In fact, there isn't much of a real definition for what constitutes an actual safe, as opposed to a "residential security container".

Sad, but true.

What most professionals would call the minimum for a safe (there are several different ratings) is quite shocking for those of us who don't know that much about them. And the low end cost, and weight for what these people call a safe is a pretty penny in cost.

Member a1abdj here on THR is a professional in the safe business, and it's well worth looking up postings by him on the subject.

Here is one thread to get you started:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=251907


On the subject of securing safes...that's another whole matter. If someone really wants into your "safe", or they want to take the entire safe, it's not really a matter of "IF" they'll be able to do it, but "WHEN".

For example, suppose you used 6 inch lag bolts directly into the floor joists. They'll be much harder to pry out of the wood, true...but all they really need is a prybar to pry the box OFF the lag bolts or to cut the wood flooring/joists themselves. Neither of which would take too much time for someone who planned it out.
 
Thanks DeepSouth, SlumLord and Retired Chief.
Most did not read my 3rd point in the first post.(DS did) It said I'm buying a Sturdy Safe. 'Sturdy' is a brand, not an adjective. This safe rates up there with AmSec, Fort Knox and Graffunders, with a lower price - or maybe they rate up there with Sturdy. Yes, it IS better than a RSC. It'll have 4 gauge on the sides and even a thicker door. Here's a great thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=351112&&
And yes, as stated in the original post, the 3 so called 'safes' were Sentry crap WalMart pretenders.
My concern was getting it attached to the wooden floor and was thinking about the idea in post #3. Thanks to DeepSouth for confirming this.
I've never put nuts on a lag bolt before - that will work?? or should I just use a through bolt with nut. . .

Sturdy only puts two holes inside the safe to bolt down with, I don't know why. Seems four would be better. They said they do use 5/8" holes, instead of the smaller 1/4".

This 'larger plate/washer under the floor with a nut holding it' idea, should do the trick. The thugs, Crackheads and other ne'er do wells around here aren't that smart, nor persistent, nor hard workers - let alone professional. Probably never happen again, different house, but will be good to be prepared.
Thanks for the good input. I feel, Chief, that I'm a semi expert on safes too, with all my research in the last 2 weeks.
 
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They will be back.

Or their "friends" will.

Alarms, security lights and alarms and some security lights.... and alarms too.

Security cams are cheap these days.

Todd.
 
I've never put nuts on a lag bolt before - that will work?? or should I just use a through bolt with nut. . .
Click to expand...

I personally used regular 5-8 bolts, to my knowledge they don't make a nut that will properly thread on a lag bolt. If you do use a bolt and nut make sure you use a lock nut not just lock washers. Useing a lock nut will make it nearly impossible to get the nut off without having a wrench holding the head of the bolt.
 
Yeah, I'd never heard of nuts for lag bolts either. Thanks for the lock nuts.
Waiting now for my new safe. tap tap tap.

WWII story: A well to do Jewish family in Poland heard rumblings in the late 1930's of the Nazi war machine coming at them. So the old man of the family got all his wealth together and bought gold. He then had them melted and cast into tools, wrenches, hammers, etc. and painted a dull silver. Then he rolled them in dirt and got them dirty. He supposedly had around two million $ worth (in today's value) Then he put 'his tools' in the center console of his vehicle, threw some old papers on top and threw $10,000 worth of zloty (Polish currency)

As they were driving away and when they DID run into a Nazi checkpoint, the Nazis arrogantly, and with great satisfaction 'confiscated' his $10k worth of currency. The Polish/Jewish family drove on and escaped to Switzerland with 99% of their wealth intact.
 
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RoyWalkweiv;

I'm another safe professional on this site, by all means research my previous posts on this subject. No, Sturdy is not a U.L. rated safe, they are RSC's. Four gauge sheet steel is not quarter inch thick steel plate. The U.L. build schedule to meet their minimum standard for safe, is 1/4" plate, all six sides. Fort Knox doesn't have a model that I know of that meets the requirement either.

The three manufacturer's that do offer true safes to the consumer market today are: AMSEC, and only the very top of their extensive line, Brown, and Graffunder. If there's another, I'm not aware of it. These are also units that either can, or do, meet the one hour thermal protection standard of the Underwriter's Labs. A mere time/temp set of figures do not give you enough information to make an accurate comparison between several units. You have to know the test parameters in order to do that. I haven't yet seen Liberty, Browning, or anybody else in the game, offering to openly publish that data, as does U.L..

900F
 
I bought a big double door money vault with a UL rating, used. Empty it's 4000 #'s. Professional safe company delivered it and set it in place. Empty it would be large enough to stand in. I'm sure the company was glad to sell it.
 
Nice to meet you 900. I bow to your more extensive long term knowledge on 'safes' than I have.

Of course you're right, 4 ga is not 1/4". But let's set the record straight. It only lacks 1/4 of a millimeter (mm) being there. Everyone knows how big a mm is. A dime's thickness is more than 1 mm, 1.25 mm actually. Now take 1/4 of the thickness of that dime, and a little less. That's the difference btw
4 ga and 1/4". Pretty close.

I just see there's a LOT of misinformation on what some big name safe co's put out there. We both know that some big names safe co's advertise how their doors are something like 3" thick! Yet they have 12 ga on the front and close to 3 inches of sheetrock behind that with another thin layer in back to hold it all together - and still brag about their 3 in. thick door. Ha!

One big name, L******, has the UL RSC certification, and that particular model has an 11 ga steel body! Can you believe that?!! All that fancy verbage for 11 gauge. :eek: Safe ratings, RSC ratings, TL ratings, etc., there's a lot out there - some of it misleading.
Often, certifications and ratings can be bought. Did you know that many co's PAY for their triple A ratings with Better Business Bureau? Do you think that doesn't happen with other 'ratings'?

I'm not affiliated with any safe company like some of you guys, but sure like the idea of 4 ga on the body instead of 11 ga, and an even thicker door. My new safe may not have some government type certification, but methinks it would take some ne'er do more than 5 mins to break into it, and probably would not break into it with unlimited time, given their IQ, work ethic, and shakes from needing their next drug fix. I'd rate it TL-90+, given the thugs around here.

Maybe Sturdy safes don't shell out the big money for certifications and that's why their safes are much less expensive.

Can we agree that an almost 1/4" thick body with 5/8" door is pretty good break in protection for $800? And it'll be a good bit more protection than whacking a Sentry safe one time with a hammer. (I give that one a TL-1 second rating )

I have read most of your postings - some good stuff. What an interesting topic. I envy you your career in safes.

Good luck with that one Joe. It'll scare the beejeebies outta the bad guys. I'm jealous of the large capacity of your new monster safe. :thumbs up:
 
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Roywalkeriv;

You're obviously well satisfied with your purchase, and it's also very obviously a far superior unit to what you had. I in no way meant to denigrate the product, but I do tend to get a bit fussy about the definitions in this area. There are other considerations than merely the thickness of the material, but that's a moot point.

I do hope that the Sturdy does it's job if you suffer the indignity of your home being burgled again.

900F
 
Am I the only one who thought of actually contacting the realtor who showed your home? I bet he/she could give a description, names (whether real or not), maybe a vehicle type, etc. If the realtor wont help or has no info, more than likely, they were in on it. File a complaint with your local board of realtors.

BTW, check your medicine cabinet.....that's also a big theft item for homes on the market.
 
Not everyone needs an expensive safe. I know guy that have more money invested in the safe than the contents are worth. If someone wants your stuff, and has the time a $10,000 safe isn't going to keep them out.

The problem here is not the cheap safe, nor how it was secured. The problem is thieves with time to work.
 
The Rest of the Story

Bocefus is so right. I DID contact the main realtor and she knew nothing and wasn't too anxious to dig back in her records, nor recalled any 'couples'. She probably showed the place 90% of the showings. I trusted her though. She's honest, albeit not the sharpest tool in the shed. It was probably some Jack Leg agent that showed it only once and no one seemed to have records. I suggested to the police that THEY should contact all the showing realtors, for more clout, but they weren't anxious at all and never did. All they did was contact a few local pawn shops. . . like the sob's are going to try and sell the stuff at a nearby pawn shop.
The hit took place probably a month or two or three before I got back to the place to find all what happened, so the trail was a bit cold. Still. . .
The $400 tv was probably sold or traded, as was all the ammo, for 2 months worth of meth highs, at 25 cents on the dollar.
The LEO's took good notes after the fact. Hey, when seconds count, the cops are just minutes away. Dial 911 and die.
Looking forward to getting my new Sturdy Safe.
 
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