U.N. adviser: West killing Africa with gun sales

Status
Not open for further replies.

rick_reno

member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
3,027
How do these poor street urchins afford guns produced and apparently sold by the G8 nations? Either we're paying way too much for guns, or these people have more resources than the popular press would like us to know about. More nonsense from the UN.

GENEVA, Switzerland (Reuters) -- A senior United Nations aid official called on Thursday for a halt to arms sales to Africa, saying it would be more effective in addressing the continent's poverty than charity rock concerts or debt relief.

Dennis McNamara, special U.N. adviser on internal displacement, slammed world powers for neglecting some 12.5 million Africans uprooted within their countries, who form half of the world's internally displaced persons (IDPs).

He accused the West of supplying the weapons fuelling African conflicts which leave civilians homeless -- and prey to war crimes, hunger, disease and rape -- while greedy companies exploit the oil and mineral wealth.

"Guns are at the heart of the problem ... There is one slogan I would like to suggest for 2006: No Arms Sales to Africa. Zero. Not an embargo, not a sanction, a voluntary cessation of all arms sales to Africa," McNamara told a news briefing.

"The kids on the streets of Nairobi, Khartoum, Abidjan and Monrovia have guns in their pockets or up their sleeves ... We provided the arms. We the West, we the G8," he added, referring to the Group of Eight industrialized nations.

McNamara dismissed large rock concerts -- such as the Live 8 series held worldwide last July under the slogan "Make Poverty History" to pressure the G8 -- as focusing short-lived attention on starving babies while distorting deeper problems.

"The pop concerts save the kids for a short period of time. They do nothing about the underlying problems," McNamara said.

"Twenty years after Live Aid, the farms of the Ogaden of Ethiopia are as impoverished and likely to have famine as 20 years ago. Nothing has changed on the ground, in fact it has gotten worse," he added.

He said debt relief was a good idea but only one part of a much bigger issue.

"The rape victims of eastern Congo don't give a damn about debt relief. They want to know who is raping them, who has provided the guns and can they get HIV tests," he added.

Yet refugees or ex-combatants returning to post-war areas ranging from Angola, southern Sudan to former Zaire find that basic services such as water, health and education are lacking amid massive unemployment, he said.

"It is all very well to have these important slogans, but it is not enough. The food aid and humanitarian aid is often a substitute for real political, economic and security action.

"This is the danger of humanitarian aid. It is a palliative, a necessary palliative, but we should stop kidding ourselves that it is a solution ... In fact, it detracts from solutions."
 
Wait, isn't the number one gun used in Africa the AK47. Last time I checked, there werent many countries west of Africa making AK47s.

How is this our fault?
 
ID_shooting said:
Wait, isn't the number one gun used in Africa the AK47. Last time I checked, there werent many countries west of Africa making AK47s.

How is this our fault?

It's always our fault.
 
They focus on the West because the nations that most of the arms are actually coming from couldn't care less about accusations and guilt trips.

.
 
The People's Republic of China.

Mr. McNamara, I know you cannot tell one gun from another and are more at ease with lattes than with arms. The guns that you decry, Type 56s, PKMs, RPG7s, TT33s, are manufactured by the People's Liberation Army of China. The end user certificates are stamped People's Republic of China.

It is not the West that is arming the thugocracies of Africa; it is the Chinese. Please go demonstrate your anger toward a PLA princeling. Please video tape his response.:)

If only the people of Africa were so well armed and not the thugs that enforce the Rule of Rape and Terror so common there. The people of Africa should be well armed--so that they may shoot their governments.
 
I'll bet McNamara was an official at the Colts-Steelers playoff game. When the Steelers commited a penalty, the ref would penalize the Colts.

When China arms thugocracies, the West is accused of horrific crimes. Why? Because the panty-waisted twits can whine and wring their hands about the West and receive money and glory. In China they would receive a bullet to the back of the head and burial in a shallow ditch.:)

Problem with Europeans socialism is that it leaves many without anything to do. If only Mr. McNamara had a job.:p
 
Bzzzzzzzt.

Wrong.

Africans can't afford guns from G8 nations.


I've seen a lot of photos from the conflict, and damned few Sigs, Colts, Bushmasters, FNs, H&K's, etc.

And when they can't get cheak AK's, the go for machetes.
 
I think it wasn't the acquiring of guns that is causing the chaos and suffering, it was the power vacuum left by the retreating colonial powers that had dismantled whatever balance of power and stability was there before, if any. The Hutus seemed to kill at a prodigious rate with mostly machetes and whatever bludgeons were on hand.

However, that was then, this is now, the question is if the various African peoples can rise above their present plight, and what the cost will be. Shaka Zulu built a strong stable nation, but it was a bloody affair to get there. It might be the same case for the others.
 
ID_shooting said:
Wait, isn't the number one gun used in Africa the AK47. Last time I checked, there werent many countries west of Africa making AK47s.

How is this our fault?

It isn't.

To quote Yuri Orlov a fictional character..

Of all the weapons in the vast soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Abdomat Kalashnikova model of 1947. More commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the worlds most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound algemation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do. The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag. Since the end of the Cold War, the Kalashnikov has become the Russian people's greatest export. After that comes vodka, caviar, suicidal novelists. One thing is for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.


heh good movie
 
"Guns are at the heart of the problem ... There is one slogan I would like to suggest for 2006: No Arms Sales to Africa. Zero. Not an embargo, not a sanction, a voluntary cessation of all arms sales to Africa," McNamara told a news briefing.

If you need a wrench but don't have one you'll use pliers. Either way, the deed will be done.
Take guns away, it's knives, take knives away, it'll be sticks, no sticks then it'll be bare fists and on and on. The African government needs to worry about social issues instead of taking tools away from it's people.
 
Hmm, well i suppose it could be instead

U.N. adviser: East killing Africa with gun sales

I have a feeling former soviet pact contries contribute far more firearms than the west.

Cause, you see so many more M-16's and LAWS then Ak's and RPG's over there.

yeesh, how stupid can you get...
 
Hell, a box of ammo here runs me $10. Thats like a months wages over there. Even without the nfa we'd pay close to a thousand dollars per weapon.

1133891815421.jpg

A non American and non American trained "Marine" with a non American weapon and non American body armor.


...which part of this is our fault again? :banghead:
 
Geek with a .45 wrote:
"I've seen a lot of photos from the conflict, and damned few Sigs, Colts, Bushmasters, FNs, H&K's, etc."

Never seen the Sigs, Colts or Bushmasters but I have seen many pictures of FN-FAL rifles being used in Africa and several African nations use the G3A3 rifle made by H&K. I have read that they are exported to more than 20 african nations. An FN FAL liscenced copy was manufactured in South Africa for many years, the R1. Though the FAL is less popular than it was 20 years ago.

the Ak is quite ubiqoutous for sure, but they aren't the only rifles in Africa.

on that note: I don't think they should stop exporting arms to Africa.

Brother in arms
 
ID_shooting said:
Wait, isn't the number one gun used in Africa the AK47. Last time I checked, there werent many countries west of Africa making AK47s.

How is this our fault?

Better yet, can I get one of those kids who are carrying these AK47's "up their sleeves" to come give me some CCW tips?
 
Look, the UN has nothing better to do. Everyone is pointing out that the fledgling Eastern European govs and China arm Africa. (China probably moreso now that the stockpiles from Eastern Europe have been largely depleted).

But the West is to blame. It's our "fistagon." Yeah, no It is an evil dictatorial regime to the East that is profiting the most now, but the UN won't say that b/c the best they could hope for from the Chinese on that would be a hearty laugh and an :cuss: -off.
 
geekWithA.45 said:
Bzzzzzzzt.

Wrong.

Africans can't afford guns from G8 nations.


I've seen a lot of photos from the conflict, and damned few Sigs, Colts, Bushmasters, FNs, H&K's, etc.

And when they can't get cheak AK's, the go for machetes.

Many of the most horrific stories I've seen reported on from Africa involve the use of machetes as weapons of mass destruction. In several, the entire population of a village was subjected to death by hacking. Lordy, PLEASE give me a full mag full of 7.62 x 39 (NOT a western cartidge, BTW) over some zealot with a head full of directives from a maniac and a machete if you plan on leaving me unarmed and unable to defend myself. Death by AK is infinitely more to my tastes.
 
A non American and non American trained "Marine" with a non American weapon and non American body armor.


Hey! Isn't that a Mae West floatation device? Sheesh...those guys ARE well armed by the West...Mae West.
 
The West and Africa

The issue with the "West" and "gun sales" isn't so much about manufacture as it is about gun brokers.

There is a long history of arms dealers promoting conflict in Africa though political maneuvers including outright promoting rebellions in order to expand their markets. Outside of Africa, in the Middle East, a gun dealer actually boasted of single-handedly triggering Lebanese Civil War on national TV. During the Cold War NATO and USSR played chess with African conflicts and nations, often fanning political unrest and warfare.

If the UN wanted to be more accurate about their claim the correct statement might have been "Western Businessmen are encouraging war and conflict in already unstable regions in order to increase their sales (brokering) of arms deals. These growing conflicts take resources and lives from areas already ravaged by disease and past warfare".

Unfortunately shortsighted people, blinded by idelogical rigidity don't understand the difference between the rights of gun ownership within a civil society, and very unethical arms dealing that includes "encouraging" deadly markets to grow. It is akin to releasing a deadly disease so your company can make money selling drugs to treat it.
 
I like how they cloak their hoplophobia in concern for Africa - as if they are making some big difference in Africa by concentrating their efforts on the two countries with some of the most severe restrictions on small arms exports (US and UK) and who sell practically none of the weapons used in Africa anyway.

I think we should take up a contribution to send these people to Moscow or Beijing so they can lodge their protests in person with the responsible parties. I am sure their concerns will be well received.
 
Every problem in the world is always the West's fault. Afterall we have civilization, stabile governments, Powerful economic bases, infrastructure, scientific advancement, and most importantly, Money. In the eyes of every socialist, its the people with money who oppress and who cause all of the problems of the world. Nevermind the fact that the 'evil' capitalistic western countries send huge amounts of aid to the 'oppressed' areas of the world for food, medicine, education etc. The reason why we are all at fault is that we still have $2 in our pockets that hasn't been confiscated as taxes yet, money that the UN has to shake us down for in order to perpetuate its own existance.
 
Here's my solution.
We screw the GCA 68 and NFA34.
We buy all those lovely AK's for $200 per copy.
The Africans lose the guns and get some money.
We evils Americans have a blast in the process.


Or we sell AR's to all the poor peasents who are being tortured and killed by their evil government and let form a new democracy, American 1776 style.
I'm sure the Dems will fund that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top