u.s 1918 trench knife

[chuck303]

hello all , new to the forum and glad to be here!
so heres the deal i have a trench knife and i would like to learn abit more about them. first is a 'knuckle duster' knife with brass handle, double sided dagger blade marked 'au lion'. ...in scabbard
from what i have heard these particular knives were french made for U.S forces in france.

what would the correct designation for this trench knife be?
can we also discuss value for this piece ?as i have received some pretty lowball offers...

 

[chuck303]

ww1 us trench knife

i am wondering if i can get some help with an identification of the makers mark, the scabbard is different from what i have usually seen.

the piece is abit rough, but im sure its tickled a few ribs in its day.

 

[rcmodel]

You probably could get some help, if you told us what the makers mark is!


The knife is a pretty typical Model 1917-1918 Trench Knife.

They were made by O.C.L (Oneida Community, Ltd.) A.C.Co. (American Cutlery Co.), and L.F. & C. ( Landers Frary & Clark.).

The sheath is more typical on a knife by O.N.C, and the guard might be marked U.S. - O.C.L. 1918.



IF it is O. C. L.?

There is one of the strangest war machine manufactures before, or since.
They were a peaceful religious pre-hippy commune in the early 1900's who made Trench Knives for income!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_Community

rc

 

[Gordon]

Last IMG shows it.

 

[Robert]

I have merged the two threads into one.

 

[rcmodel]

There wasn't a last image when I replied!

So, it is an American Cutlery Co. Knife in a later 1918 type OCL type sheath.
Probaly came that way, as the earlier metal & wire frog sheaths proved to to be less reliable.

rc

 

[chuck303]

thank you mod for merging the thread. interesting to know about the makers mark. too bad the snap is broken on the leather sheath but its good to know it is original.
any idea on value? kinda rough shape, it has a ding on the tip of the blade, rust and scuffs on the metal throughout. looks very mean tho, any idea on a ballpark value ?

 

[rcmodel]

Now, I don't know which knife you are asking about?
The spike knife with the leather sheath?



http://www.armslist.com/posts/18267...-for-sale--rare---ww-i-lf-c-1917-trench-knife

http://www.gunsamerica.com/921768284/RARE-ORIGINAL-WW-One-1917-Trench-Knife-With-Scabbard.htm

Note, these are asking prices.
Not selling prices.

I would gustimate your knife is in the $300 -$400 dollar range.

But, you have to find someone to pay that much for it!

And they don't fall out of trees very often.

The brass handle one?
Need better pictures of the blade to tell if it's original or a reproduction, refinished blade, or what.

A WWI blade still that black as it appears in the photo would be Very Unusual.

rc

 

[chuck303]

sorry i should have mentioned i was looking for a ballpark on the a.c & co spike. the brass handle 1918 is a real period item, il get more pictures out.

the reason the blade looks black is because its still in the scabbard lol. its a french manufacture , blade has never been re surfaced , sharpened or anything shady. il get some pics up. i am also looking for a ballbark guestimate for the brass 1918

the brass 1918 has its original scabbard , the scabbard has abit of rust on it as well, the blade has scratches on it from drawing it out of the sheath and some rust spots i may clean up as i do not want it to eat into the blade. there is no pitting in the blade, it has the correct 4 sided nut on the bottom. seems correct , i would like to get a value for er.
any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[chuck303]

i would also like to share this fine american made LF&C U.S brass handle 1918 knife. it has its original scabbard, but as usual it is missing the prongs but this knife is in awesome shape with a sharpened blade and most of the blued finish left on the blade, not so much on the handle. the six sided skull crusher nut has a dent on it as well as light dents in the knuckle. 'this knife has that been there look and has probably cleaned someones clock at one point. id like to get a value for this american u.s 1918 LF&C trench knife as well.

'this is a different knife , us manufacture. different from the french 1918 shown above'

 

[chuck303]

here are more pictures of the american lf&c knife

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

For what it's worth. These may fit into Colorado's "Metallic Knuckles" gray area laws though apparently there may have been at least one affirmative defense.

 

[rcmodel]

Not much is known about the Au Lion knives other then they were made by a company in France with raw materials supplied by the U.S. before our factorys got up and running.

There is speculation that the Model 1918 Mark 1 knives saw little if any service in WWI.
The war was winding down before they got in full production here.

Those knives produced were returned to ordinance warehouse storage.

In the meantime the Model 1917 was declared obsolete and sold off as surplus in the 1920's.

The Model 1918 Mark 1 remained in 'Limited Standard' for issue as needed.
Those used in WWII often had the raised part of the guard ground off so they would hang closer to the body in the replacement leather scabbards.

They were finally declared obsolete in 1945, and again sold as surplus.

rc

 

[chuck303]

wow thanks for the info, its neat to learn when they may have been used etc.
i have one other french au lion knife that looks like it may have seen action.
anyhow thanks guys, i may plan on selling some of these items soon

 

[hso]

I hate to throw cold water on anyone's enthusiasm, but a lot of these knives ended up dinged up because people "played" with them more than using them in combat.

 

[rcmodel]

Exactly.

As I said in post #13, most of the bladed Model 1918 Mark 1's never saw combat in WWI, and those that saw service in WWII usually had the guard ground flat on both sides so you could carry them comfortably.

In the mean time, thousands of them were sold as surplus before the war, and afterward, and were dinged & used up as throwing knives by kids, and adults.

Most all of the dings happened in someones back yard in the last 75 years, not in a trench in France.

A lot more of them had the brass handles stripped off and turned into needed brass for WWII materials.

The blades were turned into fighting knives by hobbyists all over the country and sent to servicemen overseas under the 'Save a life with a knife' volunteer program.

rc