"U.S. quietly begins to study gun safety"

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willbrink

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Here we go again....[rolleyes]

U.S. quietly begins to study gun safety


By Jim McElhatton

More than a decade after Congress cut funding for firearms research by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), another federal health agency has been spending millions of dollars to study such topics as whether teenagers who carry firearms run a different risk of getting shot compared with suffering other sorts of injuries.

The National Institutes of Health (NIH) also has been financing research to investigate whether having many liquor stores in a neighborhood puts people at greater risk of getting shot.

Such studies are coming under sharp scrutiny by Republican lawmakers who question whether the money could be better spent on biomedical research at a time of increasing competition for NIH funding. They're also leery of NIH research relating to firearms in general, recalling how 13 years ago the House voted to cut CDC funding when critics complained that the agency was trying to win public support for gun control.

"It's almost as if someone's been looking for a way to get this study done ever since the Centers for Disease Control was banned from doing it 10 years ago," Rep. Joe L. Barton, Texas Republican, said of one of the NIH studies. "But it doesn't make any more sense now than it did then."

The NIH, which administers more than $30 billion in taxpayer funds for medical research, defended the grants.

"Gun related violence is a public health problem - it diverts considerable health care resources away from other problems and, therefore, is of interest to NIH," Don Ralbovsky, NIH spokesman, wrote in an e-mail responding to questions about the grants.

"These particular grants do not address gun control; rather they deal with the surrounding web of circumstances involved in many violent crimes, especially how alcohol policy may reduce the public health burden from gun-related injury and death," he said.

Mr. Barton and Rep. Greg Walden of Oregon, the ranking Republican on the House Energy and Commerce Committee and the ranking member on the Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee, respectively, first questioned the NIH about the gun-related grants in a letter Friday to NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins.

The letter sought information about grants for current projects and for others starting as far back as 2002, totaling nearly $5 million. The lawmakers called the study of criminal behavior "a laudable endeavor which consistently benefits the American people, often in ways that people do not see."

"And yet we have trouble understanding the administration's desire to spend, for example, $642,561 in taxpayer funds to learn how inner-city teenagers whose friends, acquaintances and peers carry firearms and drink alcohol on street corners could show up in emergency rooms with gunshot wounds.

Cont:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/19/nih-funds-study-of-teen-firearms/
 
More than a decade after Congress cut funding for firearms research by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), another federal health agency has been spending millions of dollars to study such topics as whether teenagers who carry firearms run a different risk of getting shot compared with suffering other sorts of injuries.

Since teenagers can't legally carry guns under most circumstances in most states, I think studying such a topic is about as useful as studying whether underage motorists run a higher risk of getting into a car accident.
 
Why don't they study the correlation of liquor stores and churches? Makes about as much sense.

--wally.
 
Maybe they should study the number of drunken teenagers who shoot each other. It would save taxpayer dollars by combining two studies.
 
It's an obvious bias there.

Teenagers cannot legally carry in most states, if any.
Thus, teenagers that do carry do so illegally, leads to--
Teenagers that carry, illegally, are doing so because they maydo things that may get them shot at.

Summary: teenagers that carry illegally because they may get shot at tend to get shot at.
 
"Summary: teenagers that carry illegally because they may get shot at tend to get shot at."

It's the type of research that gives correlational/epi research a bad name. If one looks at teens + guns + number of teens who end up in the ER with a GSH, and use nothing else, one will conclude guns are associated with higher rates of death for teens, ignoring the facts teens can't legally carry handguns, are gang bangers, and so on...

It's as worthless as the (now debunked) "study" showing people are more likely to get killed with a gun (was it 40X more likely?) if they own one, etc., not taking into account who brought the gun into the house, drug buyers killing customers, and so on. You know, the details! :cuss:
 
They think they can bypass the 2nd admendment if they designate these issues as a health problem.

It's a ploy that they want to use against gun owners that allows them to use the health bill to implement some kind of gun control.

Why do you think they are trying to do it under the radar?

:cuss:
 
I like how they blame guns for health burden when the amount of gunshot victims compared to fat people with heart disease and morbid obesity, chain-smokers, and people who drive drunk or while checking their e-mail on their blackberries outnumbers gunshot victims by at least 10:1
 
Anybody here think that alcohol and guns is a good mix? Most of us know that alcohol slows reflexes and negatively influences decision making. I'd actually be very interested to know what the exact correlation between alcohol consumption and gun violence is. If the scientific method used in the study is robust, then we should all be interested in the results, and if the science is junk, then it should be treated as such. We should welcome a greater understanding of the factors that increase gun violence even if the results are uncomfortable. Knowledge never hurt anyone. We can and should fight government regulation but we should worry if we find ourselves fighting science and a greater understanding of the world around us.
 
Guns are not a public health issue. This MEXICAN SWINE FLU that has laid me up for a week is a public health issue. One those fine federal fellows did NOTHING to keep from coming up across the borders. I should go hack some of this fascinating foaming crud onto the lunch of these pointed headed grant leeches.

Summary: teenagers that carry illegally because they may get shot at tend to get shot at.

There you go. That's the same thing the Philly study failed to consider. If you're carrying illegally in some ost coast squalor pit, you are almost certain to be involved in criminal activities that put you at a much greater risk of being shot. Which is why you carry. Sensible.

We should welcome a greater understanding of the factors that increase gun violence even if the results are uncomfortable.

These studies have no intention of exploring the factors that increase criminal activity ("gun violence" is newspeak). Mostly because these factors are very well known and have been for many generations. Lack of jobs, lack of family cohesion, lack of eduction, and the manifold perverse incentives of the government handout system coupled with the easy money of drug dealing and other illegal activities and the local acceptance of such behavior. These studies are attempting to look at firearms the way genuine medical science looks at H1N1. They are reclassifying firearms as a DISEASE. Quite literally. The effort is political, and has nothing to do with genuine science or with improving the living conditions of the urban poor. Since they are mostly black or other minorities, the powers that be will continue to work hard to disarm them and keep them reliant on state handouts.
 
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Anybody here think that alcohol and guns is a good mix? Most of us know that alcohol slows reflexes and negatively influences decision making. I'd actually be very interested to know what the exact correlation between alcohol consumption and gun violence is. If the scientific method used in the study is robust, then we should all be interested in the results, and if the science is junk, then it should be treated as such. We should welcome a greater understanding of the factors that increase gun violence even if the results are uncomfortable. Knowledge never hurt anyone. We can and should fight government regulation but we should worry if we find ourselves fighting science and a greater understanding of the world around us.

First, you should lose the notion of "gun violence." Guns are inanimate objects and cannot themselves be violent.

Second, chances are extremely good--especially given the description of the study--that the "researchers" are starting with a conclusion and then working back to a question.
 
If they can socialize medicine and make your medical care a "burdon on the rest of the society" then they can justify making even your constitutional and God Given rights illeagle if they can say that they pose a health concern that you have no right to burdon the rest of society with the cost of treating.
 
I track subjects like this on other forums, and

I use my Google iHome page to track the subject of "gun control" as well.

When the information about these government studies was released a couple of days ago, it filled in the gaps of the next major thrust by the antigun crowd, and the rationale presented for same.

The "Public Health" studies are the ones that, IMHO, are potentially the most difficult to counter in the general public's eyes. They appear to have everything going for them rhetorically--prestige, as in a "university study," "government" study not done by politicians, and widespread dissemination by the mainstream media.

We had an excellent discussion about the problems in these kinds of studies about three or so years ago. One THR member, obviously a professional / degreed statistical analyst, chimed in to help with deconstruction the book du jour by the Johns Hopikins Guru (David) Hemenway.

FWIW--it appears to me that this time the push will be on "control", with no bones thrown to the banners subgroup. Bloomberg's "loophole" buying--a powerful 'common-sense' argument for those too naive to understand the propaganda--will be combined with "expert" information supporting the need, then driven on by the usual suspects, and some new ones.

My guess: late next year--if the Democrats think they will generally win the elections, but not before them. And, even that will depend on how the (political) district polls indicate the public sentiment is moving on gun control.

After the 2010 elections, all bets are off. Ideology and a desire to leave a historical mark will overrule common-sense progressivism, so to speak--

Jim H.
 
What we need is a study on stopping power--let's get those medical experts to settle the .357 vs. .40 vs. .45 vs. 10mm debates ONCE AND FOR ALL!!! :D
 
"a laudable endeavor which consistently benefits the American people(politicians, grant beneficiaries), often in ways that people (citizens) do not see."
 
I wonder what would happen if it were suggested the study have the secondary category of those minors in rural areas that carry firearms under parental supervision? Or for that matter, if those paying for the study demanded the researchers be honest enough to label it as those who indulge in criminal activities are more likely to be shot.

I'm reminded of my prof in Statistics class that proved conclusively that having ashtrays in the home increase the occurrence of lung cancer. That prof had a strange sense of humor and a point to make. CDC sounds like a bunch of full blown idiots that really mean it.
 
And people can't figure out why the NRA is constantly asking for help with funding to fight the insane , underhanded garbage the gun hating zeolts keep pulling in and effort to strip law abiding citizens Rights away .

It's been 41 years since the Socialist "Domestic enemy's" began their assult on the 2A and even though we have beaten them back a few inches since then they have made several feet of progess and will never stop attacking until the day they die just as Ted "The drunk driver/Killer" Kennedy never quit till he died .
 
I agree that gun related violence is a major health concern...but they're studying the wrong culprit.

Hello!

Anybody home?

It's not a gun problem. It's a people problem.

You said it all right there. Violence in our society is a symptom of wider problems. If the guns weren't there crime wouldn't go away.

When I was a kid we drove to school with guns in our cars so we could go hunting after school. No one ever though of using a gun to harm someone. Society is rotten today, and it's not the fault of an inanimate object.
 
I like how they blame guns for health burden when the amount of gunshot victims compared to fat people with heart disease and morbid obesity, chain-smokers, and people who drive drunk or while checking their e-mail on their blackberries outnumbers gunshot victims by at least 10:1
__________________
isn't more like 20:1?
 
They are going to tie these studies into the health care bill and eventually try to ban guns because they are bad for your health and create a health hazard...

The writing is on the wall on this one, SUCH B.S.!!!!


/\
 
Or they will make the possession of firearms taxable to help pay our fair share of health costs as they determine.
 
Is a segment of the population composed of primarily gang members more or less likely to be shot?

Do they really need to spend millions to learn that answer?

Are people who engage in criminal behavior and shootouts during criminal activity more likely to suffer gunshot wounds?

Are people who drive more likely to be involved in a vehicular accident?
Are people who fly more likely to be involved in an airline crash?







The wealth of agenda oriented "knowledge" they are able to attain with tax payer money!
 
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