Uberti 1858 in .44

[Scowboy]

Hi all. This is my first post, and it's about...well, the title gun lol. I have the sheriff's model, and it's a recent buy, I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. I measured the bore and the chambers with my digital calipers and came out to a range between .43 and change to .445. Keep in mind I've never used them for precision down to the thousandths of an inch before, I typically use them for woodworking, so I'm not sure how accurate they are down to that level, and I'm very unsure how accurate I am at finding the widest part of the bore or chamber reliably. I was expecting to find .452 to .454 give or take. Now I'm rather unsure as to what size ball I should look for.

I have the Pale Rider Kirst Konverter for it, because I know I'm going to want to shoot cartridges out of it as well. I also happened to have 45 Long Colt cartridges on hand, but neither powder nor balls to use the percussion cylinder this time. I measured some of the bullets in the cartridges, and they came out in the same .44 and change area (so did my .45 ACP rounds). I'm confused because I thought these things were made in .452 these days. At least that's what I've been told by bullet vendors when I've asked. That's what I was going with until I took the measurements tonight.

So what size ball do I look for? And how much should I trust the accuracy of my measurement? I'd normally think I was overthinking it, but with the scarcity of ammo.... I'm probably still overthinking it, but at least now there's a reason to lol.

Thanks!
Chris

 

[archeryrob]

I shoot the same gun but in 8" and I use .454 balls over a 7/16" lubed felt wad on 21 or 30 grains of BP and lately American Pioneer powder because its isn't corrosive. I use the lee mold 90442 to make my own balls and roll paper cartridges with hair end wraps from he beauty store. and uses #10 caps.

452 is what I use from my molds and 45 colt "cowboy" rounds will work for your Konverter. There are hotter smokeless rounds made for modern 1873's that exceed the 12000 PSI the conversions cylinders recommendations. If you cannot verify the ammo is under 850 fps and 12000 psi do not put it in the conversion cylinder and sell it to someone else.

 

[arcticap]

I have the sheriff's model, and it's a recent buy

The Uberti revolver manual lists the correct size balls to use. --->>> https://www.uberti-usa.com/sites/default/files/originals/product-manuals/black_powder_revolvers.pdf

Welcome to the THR black powder forum Scowboy.

 

[Armored farmer]

My full sized uberi shoots .454. So does my pietta sheriff's model.

 

[Scowboy]

Thanks guys. And thanks for the welcome, Arcticap.

I had a feeling that the ammo should stay in that range, it's just when I measured it and I didn't get a .45 anything, I suddenly got confused and thought I should ask around. I was a shade worried that my manual and my gun weren't matched up.

Yup, I have cowboy rounds. I actually got them for my rifle at first, and if the gun shop woulda had anything heavier I may have got those. So it was sort of a happy coincidence that I got a conversion-friendly round lol.

Now if I could only get my hands on some Goex fff...

Thanks!
Chris

 

[BigAlShooter]

Just make sure you get the donut ring of lead that falls out of the cylinder each time you ram the ball into the cylinder.

 

[arcticap]

Now if I could only get my hands on some Goex fff...

I noticed a lot of places are out of stock of Goex 3F.
If it's for your revolver you might want to consider American Pioneer Powder 3F while there's some available.
You won't need to use lube in the chambers and you might even get hooked on it.
A lot of cowboy shooters also use it for loading cartridges.
See the vendor links in posts #1 and #25: --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-is-back-in-business-available.875655/page-2

 

[archeryrob]

I picked up the American Pioneer 3F as the gun store in WVA doesn't sell BP and it was just under $21 a pound. They state it is cleaner, but I didn't notice that. They stated did not bind the cylinders, it did for me on 21g loads. I was able to rotate the cylinder and kind of free it. The cylinder was stuck after 24 paper cartridges and I had to hammer it out with a wooden dowel. So it still needs oil at loadings without over ball lube as I shoot dry with lubed wads.

I thought it was just as dirty as BP. BUT it is easier to get a hold of and it is non-corrosive as they made it without sulfur as stated on their website and contains no BP. No pull everything easy part and clean it with hot water and dry is fine for cleaning.

 

[arcticap]

American Pioneer residue is basically a dry greyish-black ash.
The Remington cylinder pin usually needs to be lubed after shooting 3 full cylinders loaded with 30 grains of powder.
Swabbing the bore after firing 40 or 50 shots is optional.

Because substitute powders weigh less per equal volume compared to black powder, they usually produce less residue.
And since APP doesn't contain sulfur, the residue has different fouling characteristics, which isn't green and smells like rotten eggs.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

As you have discovered, the inside measuring points on a caliper are not the best thing to use when measuring the diameter of small holes. There is always a slight error caused by the tiny flat edge across the business ends of the points bridging the curve slightly. The very best way to measure chamber throat diameter is with Guage Pins, or Plug Guages, but a set of them up to .500 in diameter is very expensive. Instead, I use small hole gauges when measuring chamber mouths. This set of Starrett small hole gauges are fairly expensive, but if you google them you can find alternative brands that are not as expensive.






The way to use them is you place it in the hole you want to measure, then you turn the handle to expand the halves of the ball to just touch the diameter of the hole you are trying to measure. You then withdraw the gauge and measure across the largest portion with your calipers. With a little bit of practice you can get very accurate measurements.


I bought this Stainless Uberti 1858 Remington, complete with cartridge conversion cylinder, for a very good price a bunch of years ago. I just looked up the proof mark and it was made in 2003.






I mostly shoot it with cartridges, but I just measured the chamber mouths on the C&B cylinder. They are running right around .449 - .451.






As has been previously stated, a tiny ring of lead will be shaved off the correct diameter ball when it is rammed into the chamber. There are generally two diameters of lead balls available for 44 caliber Cap & Ball revolvers, .451 and .454. I have not fired this particular Remmie as a Cap & Ball revolver for a long time, if I was going to I would probably use .454 balls to shave off a good sized ring. The more lead you shave off, the less chance there is of leaving a void in the seal of ball to chamber and the less chance of a chain fire. Trust me on this. The last chain fire I had was back around 1970 or so, it was an 'illuminating' experience.

 

[Scowboy]

I feel a lot better about it now, thanks, everyone. Guess I'll have to get me some of those gauges.

Just in case I find them before I find .454, will .457 or .459 go in, or is that shaving off too much lead to get into the chamber by the loading lever? I don't want to try over forcing something.

Thanks!
Chris

 

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Scrowboy,

I think the issue might be how hard it is on your loading lever. The bigger the ball, the more stress you put on the lever.
If loading on a cylinder press, I don't think it would be as big a deal.

AntiqueSledMan.

 

[whughett]

Thanks guys. And thanks for the welcome, Arcticap.

I had a feeling that the ammo should stay in that range, it's just when I measured it and I didn't get a .45 anything, I suddenly got confused and thought I should ask around. I was a shade worried that my manual and my gun weren't matched up.

Yup, I have cowboy rounds. I actually got them for my rifle at first, and if the gun shop woulda had anything heavier I may have got those. So it was sort of a happy coincidence that I got a conversion-friendly round lol.

Now if I could only get my hands on some Goex fff...

Thanks!
Chris

Graff and Sons. Their house brand is Goex. Buy enough and it comes out to around $18 a pound. It’s all I use.
PS. Makes those 45Colt rounds real authentic. Nothing like 40grains of 3F pushing a 250 grain RNFP bullet. Flash Boom and a cloud of smoke.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

I would stay away from .457 or larger balls. Generally speaking, those are for the larger chambers of a Ruger Old Army.

Trying to shove larger diameter balls into the chambers can put extra stress on the screw the loading lever pivots on and can bend it or even break it.

I'm not sure how long the loading lever is on your Sheriff's Model. You can see how long the loading lever is on my old EuroArms Remmie that I bought way back in 1975. It has a full length 8" barrel and the loading lever is long enough for plenty of leverage to shove pure lead balls into the chambers. Yes, there is a cartridge conversion cylinder mounted in this guy, but that does not change the length of the loading lever.






So make sure what you buy are pure lead. Pure lead is dead soft and a nice ring will shave off the ball when seating it. If there is any tin or antimony mixed into the lead it will take more force to shove a ball into the chambers and you may damage the pivot screw.

This is the brand I used to use in my Cap & Ball revolvers. These are pure lead. They are actually swaged to shape, not cast, so there is no pouring sprue left on the ball. If you buy balls that are cast, position the sprue cut off straight up as you shove it into the chamber. That way it will not interfere as the ball enters the chamber, and there will be no gap where the sprue meets the chamber wall. I bought these a long time ago, those are really old prices, so I have no idea what they cost today, if you can find them. But these are the balls that I liked best in my C&B revolvers.






Track of the Wolf is a good place to buy supplies for Black Powder and Cap & Ball in general. I just checked and Hornady balls are out of stock there, but they have some cast balls.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/item.aspx/127/2

You could also go direct to Hornady and see if they are in stock.

https://www.hornady.com/muzzleloading/browse/#!/


For Powder, I prefer Schuetzen over Goex. Schuetzen uses a better grade of charcoal than Goex and produces a little bit less fouling. Either FFg or FFFg will be fine in your Remington. I use FFg in everything just to keep things simple so I don't have to stock two different granulations. For any given powder charge, FFFg will produce a little bit more velocity than FFg.

I usually buy my powder from Maine Powder House. I usually go in with a friend and we buy 25 pounds at a time and avoid the HazMat fee. If you buy less you will probably have to pay the HazMat fee. I have no idea where you live so I have no idea if Maine Powder House will ship directly to you or not. Many states and localities have restrictions on storing real Black Powder.

https://mainepowderhouse.com/shop/

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Gonna toss my nickle's worth in, I don't want my ball to shave a ring of lead off, I feel this is not going to help accuracy by changing the weight or center of gravity of the ball, all of my revolvers have had the chamber mouths reamed with a tapered reamer just enough to start the ball without shaving lead. When the ball is seated it is compressed into the chamber and seals just fine. Never had a problem with chain fires or a ball moving due to recoil. .454 sized balls are going to work for your pistol. I demand a lot from my pistols, as I expect to be able hit rabbit size targets at 75 plus yards, shaving lead off the bullet ain't gonna get that accuracy for me.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

It's been awhile since I last shot my retired cap'n'ball revolvers but as I recall, I used .375" lead ball in the .36 cal and .451" lead ball in the .44 cal.
When you ram an oversized ball into the chamber of a cap'n'ball revolver, it gets resized to the chamber diameter.